Old 09-19-2017, 06:35 PM   #1
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Default $60k Nagra pre amp

Fyi ... if you're in the market for a nice sounding pre amp.

Only $59,500.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/09...-debut-at.html
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:26 AM   #2
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Fyi ... if you're in the market for a nice sounding pre amp.

Only $59,500.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/09...-debut-at.html
So the loony HiFi world is still alive and well. Wonder if they are also selling special cables to go with it?

I remember when Nagra had a great reputation in the filed recorder market, but hadnt really taken a lot of notice since I stopped using tape.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:12 AM   #3
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Every time I see shit like this I realize how sane RME pricing actually is. I'll see a couple more things like this or those "audiophile DACs" and getting a babyface pro for my crappy and sparse recordings will look like a complete bargain.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:27 AM   #4
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That'd better come with some amazing reach-around.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:49 AM   #5
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You get what you pay for.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:17 AM   #6
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Sometimes I wonder if they sell any of this super-expensive audiophile stuff... They are probably just trying to boost their reputation. In any case, I'm pretty sure the can't sell enough of them to make a profit, especially if you believe that 10 engineers spent 3 years on this thing.

The audiophile reviewers will proclaim it the best preamp ever.... How can you say anything bad about a $60K preamp? And the more it costs, the more the "audiophiles" will lust for it...
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:18 AM   #7
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Even if I had the most well tuned room built from the ground up with no expense spared with top of the line B&W or Adams speakers I don't think I'd find any way to justify that price tag for a preamp. You can get a hell of a boutique preamp for $1000! (a stretch itself) So add another $59,000 for .000000000000000000000000000000001% improvement? (assuming any improvement at all) Nope! I'll get a 3rd 5.1 speaker array first, thanks.

The audio sales world is indeed an odd thing. You get the Worst Purchase treatment on the one hand. True garbage and fake products with zero value. Tricking people into buying "soundbars" instead of speakers and the like for example. (It's a fake speaker that doesn't work even a little if you haven't seen that.) Pure snake oil. Then on the other hand you get the fake audiophile catalog fare with the $1000 USB cable described as though it carried analog signals and other bs claims or little ceramic speaker wire stands with some energy crystals and wrist magnets built into them or some shit.

The happiness and light at the end of the tunnel are the products aimed at musicians and engineers that deliver an incredible bang for the buck. A computer with an audio interface turns out to be the most friendly consumer system you can get nowadays too.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:33 AM   #8
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You get what you pay for.

NOT on the hi fi market.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:50 AM   #9
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What the fuck is Nagra doing making something like THAT !!?

Are those people turning in to a company like Burmester, who kit out your yacht with $50000 stereos ?
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Old 09-20-2017, 02:09 PM   #10
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NOT on the hi fi market.
You wouldn't tell me that you wouldn't want one if had a opportunity?
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Old 09-20-2017, 02:29 PM   #11
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You wouldn't tell me that you wouldn't want one if had a opportunity?
Only if I could sell it right away and use the money for something a lot more useful.

I might get tempted to get back into hardware compressors again.
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:39 PM   #12
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Only if I could sell it right away and use the money for something a lot more useful.

I might get tempted to get back into hardware compressors again.
If you'd have loads of money, would you sell it then too?

And yeah, man, a while ago i played with analog moog, and it is huge difference from using vst's. Analog gear is amazing.
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:43 PM   #13
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Only $59,500, it's a scam.
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Old 09-20-2017, 03:50 PM   #14
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If you'd have loads of money, would you sell it then too?

And yeah, man, a while ago i played with analog moog, and it is huge difference from using vst's. Analog gear is amazing.
Heh heh, I tell you Mik, if I had that much money, the last thing I'd do is get one of those.

Regarding analog moogs, I've still got my old PolyMoog from the late 70s. I'll admit I got some great recordings with it back then, but compared to what we have now, at a fraction of the cost, there is no comparison.

Heh heh, I wish I had the $5,000+ back that I paid for it.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:47 PM   #15
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NOT on the hi fi market.
Indeed ... the consumer high end personal audio market is ripe with snake oil products. Speaker cables at $1,000 per foot --- $13,000 HMDI cables that promise "best audio quality ever" --- there's such a crock load of shit out there, it could fertilize all of California's farms. And probably a few more States.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:52 PM   #16
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I can understand criticism. It's the producer who's setting the prices, so it is his business to set the price he thinks the product is worth it. But what I have problem with, is that so many people criticizes high price of that product, but none of us heard the quality of this thing yet I believe.
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:57 PM   #17
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What the fuck is Nagra doing making something like THAT !!?

Are those people turning in to a company like Burmester, who kit out your yacht with $50000 stereos ?
That's a thought that crossed my mind.

Possibly $$ --- if they sell a few units, it'll make a big difference towards their bottom line.

Nagra is well known, and has been for decades, for manufacturing expensive but high quality audio recording devices that were, and are, used on film sets. They are expensive, several thousand $$, but well built, and take many different audio inputs; they are robust and won't break down; and audio recording professionals swear by them.

Paying $3,000 for an essential piece of equipment makes perfect sense to me; paying $60k for a pre amp for a home stereo system does not. But then again, the people which they are targeting maybe have a different perspective. If you can afford a $1 million Ferrari, and $500 bottles of wine for dinner, what is more cool than to impress your friends with the latest and greatest: the ultimate pre-amp?
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:12 PM   #18
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That's a thought that crossed my mind.

Possibly $$ --- if they sell a few units, it'll make a big difference towards their bottom line.

Nagra is well known, and has been for decades, for manufacturing expensive but high quality audio recording devices that were, and are, used on film sets. They are expensive, several thousand $$, but well built, and take many different audio inputs; they are robust and won't break down; and audio recording professionals swear by them.

Paying $3,000 for an essential piece of equipment makes perfect sense to me; paying $60k for a pre amp for a home stereo system does not. But then again, the people which they are targeting maybe have a different perspective. If you can afford a $1 million Ferrari, and $500 bottles of wine for dinner, what is more cool than to impress your friends with the latest and greatest: the ultimate pre-amp?
Two years ago I was an extra in King Arthur, a WB production, and I could see how much money went in to it, by looking at the sets, crew, extras and cast. Also heard rumor later on that they were spending $2mln/day. And I'm pretty sure that in compare to something like Harry Potter it was modest budget. Those are the people that are the target audience for that kind of gear. I'd buy it, if it would sound really good and had money for it, also because gear like that is super reliable.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:14 PM   #19
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You get what you pay for.
Just as true buying a Ferrari for 80k as it is buying a Toyota Prius for 80k. You paid for it, you got it. What you paid really makes no difference. :P
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:16 PM   #20
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Just as true buying a Ferrari for 80k as it is buying a Toyota Prius for 80k. You paid for it, you got it. What you paid really makes no difference. :P
Oh, it does. You pay for quality. Just of cpu's as an example. Or gpu's. Or healthcare. Paying for things is good. Good deal is even better. In 10 years this gear we are discussing will be 1/3rd cheaper or even less.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:18 PM   #21
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I can understand criticism. It's the producer who's setting the prices, so it is his business to set the price he thinks the product is worth it. But what I have problem with, is that so many people criticizes high price of that product, but none of us heard the quality of this thing yet I believe.
Mik, come visit me, you will hear quality, or just go visit any decent studio, you should hear quality, I guarantee you, that preamp will not make any difference at all. Go to any major studio in the world, and the likely hood of them having that preamp that costs that much is really nil.

Why pay that much for a preamp when you can get a famous vintage board with all it's preamps for nealy the same cost, maybe a little more.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:21 PM   #22
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Mik, come visit me, you will hear quality, or just go visit any decent studio, you should hear quality, I guarantee you, that preamp will not make any difference at all. Go to any major studio in the world, and the likely hood of them having that preamp that costs that much is really nil.

Why pay that much for a preamp when you can get a famous vintage board with all it's preamps for nealy the same cost, maybe a little more.
I'd love to visit you someday Have a cup of coffee or tea, or whatever you guys drink over there in the States

I don;t know why to pay so much instead of buying a vintage neve, but I'd like to find out.

I did hear good preamps, and I hear preamps in my focusrite, which are decent, but lack the spark of generated harmonics that those good preamps had. That's why I'm curious how most expensive preamp in the world sounds
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:56 PM   #23
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I did hear good preamps, and I hear preamps in my focusrite, which are decent, but lack the spark of generated harmonics that those good preamps had. That's why I'm curious how most expensive preamp in the world sounds
What you're talking about Mik, are pre-amps that add color. That's not new, every pre-amp will have it's own footprint which can be good or bad or even both. The Neve got a good reputation for it's pres, and maybe rightly so. I don't know, I never recorded with one.

I do guarantee you though, that the preamps don't mean anything unless you have 3 very important things (RMP). A good Room, a decent Mic, and a good Performance. With out them, no preamp in the world is going to make it better.

In fact, if you've got those 3 things, you don't need the so called greatest preamp, because you've already got everything you need to get the best.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:59 PM   #24
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What you're talking about Mik, are pre-amps that add color. That's not new, every pre-amp will have it's own footprint which can be good or bad or even both. The Neve got a good reputation for it's pres, and maybe rightly so. I don't know, I never recorded with one.

I do guarantee you though, that the preamps don't mean anything unless you have 3 very important things (RMP). A good Room, a decent Mic, and a good Performance. With out them, no preamp in the world is going to make it better.

In fact, if you've got those 3 things, you don't need the so called greatest preamp, because you've already got everything you need to get the best.
I agree. However, that doesn't mean that with good room, mic and performance, even better preamp wont make a difference

If I'd be running a movie studio, I'd get the best thing I could Especially that those are investors monies, not mine
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:21 PM   #25
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I've been on some forums and argued with audiophiles who think that $1000 POWER cables and commercial grade receptacles make an audible difference. These same "golden ears" have 0 treatment in the their room and are convinced they hear a difference.

It never ceases to amaze me how these guys spends thousands on equipment and don't even spend a nickel on their rooms - well maybe for their 10k audiophile couches etc that don't "ruin" the sound etc.

Crazy.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:30 PM   #26
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I've been on some forums and argued with audiophiles who think that $1000 POWER cables and commercial grade receptacles make an audible difference. These same "golden ears" have 0 treatment in the their room and are convinced they hear a difference.

It never ceases to amaze me how these guys spends thousands on equipment and don't even spend a nickel on their rooms - well maybe for their 10k audiophile couches etc that don't "ruin" the sound etc.

Crazy.
Do you know why Hans Zimmer for Dark Knight recorded 24 horns instead of 12 as is always done when you want huge horn section?

Because he could
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:55 PM   #27
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Regarding analog moogs, I've still got my old PolyMoog from the late 70s. I'll admit I got some great recordings with it back then, but compared to what we have now, at a fraction of the cost, there is no comparison.
It's interesting how everyone accepts the modern computers, TVs and cars are better, yet relatively simple from modern perspective electronic instruments are considered (by musicians) being made of magical pixie dust only available from magical pixie dust mines of the 1970s and are possible to do currently only with the biggest technical and financial effort.

Like we have CPUs that are quadrillion faster than one from Apple II without breaking sweat, for pennies, self piloting drones, but do you want an analog signal generator with a keyboard, that can't play chords, sounding like a machine that-goes-ping for average passer by? That'd be $6000 please.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:45 AM   #28
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You get what you pay for.
If what you are paying for is a sense of superiority based on how much something costs, then yes. There is no guarantee of higher quality for more money. It is quite possible to get more than someone else did for less money.
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Old 09-21-2017, 02:17 AM   #29
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You wouldn't tell me that you wouldn't want one if had a opportunity?
If I can't sit inside it, I'm not spending that much on it.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:58 AM   #30
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Fyi ... if you're in the market for a nice sounding pre amp.

Only $59,500.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/09...-debut-at.html
I'll take eight of them for my Ambisonic cube.

..... Oh wait, that would buy me a HUGE Moog modular rig!
Look out Mr. Zimmer!!


The crazy thing about this kind of HiFi gear is that the music they play back on these systems was recorded in studios that use normal power cables, sanely priced interconnect cables and preamps 1/10th the price... Oh dear. Reality check anyone?

I'm a fan of Nagra field recording gear but this preamp venture baffles me a bit.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:06 AM   #31
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Wanna have some fun? Next time one of your 'audiophile' friends is complimenting you on a natural dynamic awesome sounding mix, tell them about the track you used distortion on. Watch them melt down...
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:44 AM   #32
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We tend to forget there are a number a people out there who A) have more money than they can spend, B) like shiny things and C) Aren't truly concerned with sound improvements - meaning, they don't care if they can prove it and they are just fine blurring the line between real and bias - because it is enjoyable for them. Those people have a right to buy whatever they want and if that market exists, someone has the right to fill that need.

There is another mindset of people who simply cannot let go of the "cost more must sound a little better" psychological trick, and until they can actually afford it and find out themselves they'll never learn this lesson - or they promote themselves to the group I just described above if they happen to win the lottery.

Lastly, gear like this is 95% about materials used, no expense spared in build time, parts, production etc. They can have an engineer sit there doing laser guided measurements placing parts made out of the latest space age alloys - this is extremely expensive, is the reason for most of the cost, and has nothing to do with the quality of the audio - literally nothing.

If anyone remotely believes this price vs sound comparison is proportional in anyway, buy one and see how much you can actually resell it for and you'll quickly find out, it isn't worth that price.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:07 AM   #33
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If I can't sit inside it, I'm not spending that much on it.
You're onto something - there's not a word on size and nothing to compare dimensions on those pics. Maybe it's pricey because it's building sized. If it's air conditioned - I want one.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:23 AM   #34
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How about 100K for a bottle of water? yes $100,000.00.

http://beverlywater.com/shop/diamondedition/

Cheers! it's just money...
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:32 AM   #35
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How about 100K for a bottle of water? yes $100,000.00.

http://beverlywater.com/shop/diamondedition/

Cheers! it's just money...
This world has lost the plot!
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:06 PM   #36
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This world has lost the plot!
It slays me that the photos on that page are taken with an iphone or something. Couldn't afford the 2000 dollar camera I guess. ;p
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:43 PM   #37
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I've been on some forums and argued with audiophiles who think that $1000 POWER cables and commercial grade receptacles make an audible difference. These same "golden ears" have 0 treatment in the their room and are convinced they hear a difference.

It never ceases to amaze me how these guys spends thousands on equipment and don't even spend a nickel on their rooms - well maybe for their 10k audiophile couches etc that don't "ruin" the sound etc.

Crazy.
The receptacles offer a better connection and are actually better receptacles and they cost $6 instead of $.50. I can't say I could hear the difference, but at least there is an actual scientific reason for them.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:47 PM   #38
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Even if I had the most well tuned room built from the ground up with no expense spared with top of the line B&W or Adams speakers I don't think I'd find any way to justify that price tag for a preamp. You can get a hell of a boutique preamp for $1000! (a stretch itself) So add another $59,000 for .000000000000000000000000000000001% improvement? (assuming any improvement at all) Nope! I'll get a 3rd 5.1 speaker array first, thanks.

The audio sales world is indeed an odd thing. You get the Worst Purchase treatment on the one hand. True garbage and fake products with zero value. Tricking people into buying "soundbars" instead of speakers and the like for example. (It's a fake speaker that doesn't work even a little if you haven't seen that.) Pure snake oil. Then on the other hand you get the fake audiophile catalog fare with the $1000 USB cable described as though it carried analog signals and other bs claims or little ceramic speaker wire stands with some energy crystals and wrist magnets built into them or some shit.

The happiness and light at the end of the tunnel are the products aimed at musicians and engineers that deliver an incredible bang for the buck. A computer with an audio interface turns out to be the most friendly consumer system you can get nowadays too.
Why B&W or Adams? The same stuff is in those as is in Behringers. Take RME. RME has the exact same chips as MOTU or Apogee for that matter.
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Old 09-22-2017, 03:46 PM   #39
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re: AD & DA converters

Everyone uses Burr Brown chips. It's the analog components for that end of the circuit that make the difference.

That modern B-word converter unit IS actually going to deliver a high bang for the buck! Welcome to the 21st century. Some things are cheap and nice now. The Apogee/RME/Prism unit will have better analog components for the analog signal handling circuits. Remember, those Burr Brown chips can only digitize what they get delivered to them from the analog front end to the AD circuit. Just OK analog precision gets you just that and no more digitized. You'll never restore or pull out what hit the cutting room floor from the bits no matter how deep you dig.

We can still be reasonable with this however! If the B-word unit hits 85% of what's possible, the Apogee and Prism units will get you to 98%. Invest in that last 2% with caution!


I was kind of throwing out B&W and Adams as buzzwords. Are those no longer worthy of investment? Hmmm... I bet they give you more bang for the buck than the stupid $60,000 preamp! Genelecs are going to have to continue to suffice for the time being here.


Nicer preamps in general give you a wide working range with pristine consistent quality from top to bottom. Cheaper units might give you the same results in the sweet spot but you get a smaller window. The better dialed in units' entire working range is the sweet spot as it were.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:13 PM   #40
gvanbrunt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenja View Post
The receptacles offer a better connection and are actually better receptacles and they cost $6 instead of $.50. I can't say I could hear the difference, but at least there is an actual scientific reason for them.
I understand the difference - I design and build tube amplifiers and have worked as an electrician in my past. Manufacturers do not claim to offer a "better connection" - at least on the couple of spec sheets I've looked at. Commercial receptacles stand up to more abuse so for hotels, hospitals, schools etc. they are a wise choice.
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