Tempo across DAWs?

[JayJSE2]

So a few days ago I recorded drums and I'm now wanting to edit them. I started trying to edit them in Logic as that's what they were recorded into, but in the end I gave up and decided to use Reaper instead (as I'm more used to it).

The tempo in Logic was set to (exactly) 231bpm but when I set the tempo in Reaper to the same bpm (after changing the timebase for both the tracks and the items) it doesn't match up.

I'm not sure if this is a problem with Reaper or Logic or if there's just something I'm doing wrong, but does anyone have any suggestions for anything that could help?

[rvman]

I've noticed this too, when going from Studio One to Reason. I just made an adjustment and kept working. I don't have an answer for it.

[ivansc]

what timebase were you in?
This is one of those subtle things that can throw stuff off even if the actual tempos barlines etc are identical and align otherwise.

I used to get this editing MIDI generated by other sequencers and V/v in he days when I just used MIDI no audio.

[JayJSE2]

Originally Posted by ivansc

what timebase were you in?
This is one of those subtle things that can throw stuff off even if the actual tempos barlines etc are identical and align otherwise.

I used to get this editing MIDI generated by other sequencers and V/v in he days when I just used MIDI no audio.

I set it to time, It doesn't look like the waveform changes position/speed at all while it's set to time.

I think I've found a workaround (set the tempo to 232bpm) but I'd still like to know how 231bpm isn't just 231bpm...

[Banned]

Originally Posted by JayJSE2

[...]but I'd still like to know how 231bpm isn't just 231bpm...

Because, computers. More precisely, integers can't (always) be accurately stored as floating point numbers.

Relevant example: when you manually enter a tempo in REAPER using Menu > Insert > Time signature/tempo marker (SHIFT+C), it may initially be stored in the .RPP project file exactly as you entered it - but when you copy that tempo marker around by copying envelope points in the 'Tempo map' envelope of the Master Track, it may become a slightly different value:

  <TEMPOENVEX
    ACT 0
    VIS 1 0 1
    LANEHEIGHT 0 0
    ARM 0
    DEFSHAPE 1 -1 -1
    PT 0.000000000000 150.0000000000 1
    PT 1.600000000000 150.0000000000 1
    PT 3.200000000000 149.9999999920 1 0 1
    PT 4.800000000000 149.9999999920 1 0 1
  >

This is the type of stuff that causes many subtle timing issues in REAPER (and other software), and the main reason why some users (including myself) occasionally complain about the lack of a 'true' musical timebase in REAPER, which has apparently been built mainly using a (primarily) audio-oriented paradigm, where absolute time / audio buffers / samples are more important than musical divisions such as measures, beats, ticks, triplets, etc.

If you are obsessive about minimizing the chance of such errors and/or attempting to optimize the (musical) timing accuracy of MIDI and plug-in parameter automation / modulation (like I occasionally am myself... ), you could do a bit of simple math (actually, a simple spreadsheet suffices ) and find more or less 'neat' combinations of sample rate, audio buffer size and BPMs that result in integer numbers of samples / buffers for common musical subdivisions. For example, when I want to use a tempo of ±130BPM, I often prefer to actually use 129.19921875 BPM at a sample rate of 44.1kHz and 2^x buffer size (e.g. 32, 64, 128, 256). Or, if I want to lower the tempo to ±117 BPM, I may do a quick calculation (or look on a cheat sheet) and find out that 117.1875 BPM works well at 48.0kHz and same 2^x buffer size. So, I may choose to switch my sample rate for this reason *only*.

[whiteaxxxe]

^^^^

that is unacceptable.



I have no clue how to set up such a cheat sheet and if I would know how to I would have no clue why and where to look at and search for.

in simple words: hä????? (<- that is german for "what the f*** is going on ...")



no need to explain it to me. I will try to read your post a few times again and will try to get behind that thing ...

[Banned]

Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe

I have no clue how to set up such a cheat sheet and if I would know how to I would have no clue why and where to look at and search for.

I should probably keep that a business secret, while occasionally selling one or two "premium" BPM numbers for way too much cash to "professionals" with way too much cash.

[ivansc]

Timebase:
BPPs way of expressing the root tpqn setting the sequencer default initialises to.
Back in the day it was quite often un-adjustable in a given sequencer program and of course no manufacturers took any notice of any of the others regarding WHAT it should be set to.
So much for MIDI being such a great standard.

From memory, BPP defaulted to 192 whereas Cubase I think was 380something.

Since this setting is of some relevance when it comes to porting SMFs from one sequencer to another, life used to get very interesting.
One of the more hilarious results was that you could import an individual MIDI track or an SMF in either 0 or 1 and none of the starts or barlines etc would line up.
Try editing a drum part like that!

[stereolost]

You guys are scaring me to death. If i send stems to a mixing engineer and drums don't line up, i'm screwed.
Can imagine a dialogue with a client "Please set the tempo to 127.83errr34" and everything will be ok)))