Old 01-15-2016, 09:32 AM   #121
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Wow, I never thought there'd be such a response to my little post.
Well, you would have been ripped apart at Gearslutz or Kvr for saying 'Coders and industry pros all agree' so the reaction here was pretty mild Unless you personally know many coders and industry pros.. Sounds like a cat food ad!

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Anything from bx, the same.
I don't know - I just think they're long established and good at marketing. I have about 10 of their plugins (bought in their ridiculous sales) and all but one or two are no better than anything else one can get for free or very cheap imo.

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Old 01-15-2016, 09:40 AM   #122
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I don't know - I just think they're long established and good at marketing. I have about 10 of their plugins (bought in their ridiculous sales) and all but one or two are no better than anything else one can get for free or very cheap imo.
Much like Waves, a select handful of their plugins are real gems and worth the (sale) price.
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:40 AM   #123
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Well, you would been ripped apart at Gearslutz or Kvr for saying 'Coders and industry pros all agree' so the reaction here was pretty mild Unless you personally know many coders and industry pros.. Sounds like a cat food ad!



I don't know - I just think they're long established and good at marketing. I have about 10 of their plugins (bought in their ridiculous sales) and all but one or two are no better than anything else one can get for free or very cheap imo.
I see merit in most sides of this and no personal 'strong' positions_ EXCEPT I share a fairly positive impression of many Plugin Alliance products. Cannot (and no need to) dispute your personla experiences, BUT must ask about MAAG4 EQ as it seems to stand a bit apart from most others .... AIR .

I'm very interested in alternatives that you feel are solid equals or even superior ..... to help me get past this very specific temptation. BTW, I have a legitimate code that gets me well below current price at PA.

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Old 01-15-2016, 10:02 AM   #124
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I see merit in most sides of this and no personal 'strong' positions_ EXCEPT I share a fairly positive impression of many Plugin Alliance products. Cannot (and no need to) dispute your personla experiences, BUT must ask about MAAG4 EQ as it seems to stand a bit apart from most others .... AIR .

I'm very interested in alternatives that you feel are solid equals or even superior ..... to help me get past this very specific temptation. BTW, I have a legitimate code that gets me well below current price at PA.

Regards,
I think Maag EQ4 is one of the gems at Plugin Alliance, along with the SPL Transient Designer. I also love the Opto Compressor, and the Lindell 7X-500 is the most aggressive compressor I've got. I got all these in great deals.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:24 AM   #125
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I think Maag EQ4 is one of the gems at Plugin Alliance, along with the SPL Transient Designer. I also love the Opto Compressor, and the Lindell 7X-500 is the most aggressive compressor I've got. I got all these in great deals.
Thanks much. Lindell is not one I've checked out, but did try Opto Pedal a bit. Regret nt getting Transient Designer ... seems like that was one with super price if you go the (2) pieces instead ....
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:27 AM   #126
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I think Maag EQ4 is one of the gems at Plugin Alliance, along with the SPL Transient Designer. I also love the Opto Compressor, and the Lindell 7X-500 is the most aggressive compressor I've got. I got all these in great deals.
I'm not familiar with Maag eq but then I'm not really into spending that amount of money on an eq. Transient designer is a good example of their overpricing to me - I find it no better than some of the free ones out there. It might have been software industry leading at some point though.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:31 AM   #127
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I'm very interested in alternatives that you feel are solid equals or even superior ..... to help me get past this very specific temptation. BTW, I have a legitimate code that gets me well below current price at PA.

Regards,
To be honest, it would take time (that I haven't got atm) to go through and pick individual alternatives but, let's just say that I've been around plugins long enough to know that there are many free and cheap plugin that will do what some of the bx stuff does. The only one that seems pretty unique to me is stereomaker and opto pedal (of the ones I have).
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:33 AM   #128
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I'm not familiar with Maag eq but then I'm not really into spending that amount of money on an eq. Transient designer is a good example of their overpricing to me - I find it no better than some of the free ones out there. It might have been software industry leading at some point though.
I got them both for about £30 or £40 each. I definitely find the SPL transient Designer more useful than any free ones I've tried, including Bittersweet. The Maag does stuff to highs and subs that I've not been able to recreate with any other EQ, particularly the highs. They've definitely been worth the price I paid for them.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:36 AM   #129
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Bittersweet's so buggy I've never been able properly assess it. Have you tried Audio Assaults free one? it's very good.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:48 AM   #130
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Thanks for Audio Assaults tip.
One tough choice for me is bx_saturator V2. Seems very capable, but not so easy to use 'fully /capably'. My Code runs out very soon and cost is really LOW ...
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Old 01-15-2016, 12:08 PM   #131
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To be honest, it would take time (that I haven't got atm) to go through and pick individual alternatives but, let's just say that I've been around plugins long enough to know that there are many free and cheap plugin that will do what some of the bx stuff does. The only one that seems pretty unique to me is stereomaker and opto pedal (of the ones I have).
Elysia Alpha Master (Plugin Alliance) - have tried lots of comps and have lots of comps,
but this one is better than everything I know,
so which plugin could equal Elysia Alpha comp?
That I would really like to know..
Before Elysia I drove a nice Ford, with Elysia it´s a Rolls Royce ;-)

There is no difference at all between Transien Designer and
NI Transient Master, imo.

Maag Eq is outstanding especially for high end.
Just my experience...
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Old 01-15-2016, 01:45 PM   #132
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Zebra, Diva, Sylenth1, ZynAddSubFX
U-He FTW !
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Old 01-15-2016, 03:44 PM   #133
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Default Help on how to use reaper

I have downloaded the free version of reaper as a try on and see if I can like it but as a beginner who has no idea on how to use DAW it very complicated as to how to even instal any vst to make beats and there is no videos on YouTube that shows step by step how to setup reaper and how to use it. Secondly I have akai mph mini but I can't even use to to connect to reaper. I really want to use reaper and no other DAW. I read the forums and am convinced reaper is the best DAW for me. Can anyone please help me to set up my home studio as I have all the equipment but no knowledge as to what to do. Thanks.
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Old 01-15-2016, 04:01 PM   #134
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On the main Reaper page there are indicators of various resources. The User Manual is a MUST.

Here is the Link from that page showing many videos available.

http://www.reaper.fm/videos.php
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Old 01-15-2016, 05:02 PM   #135
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Bittersweet's so buggy I've never been able properly assess it. Have you tried Audio Assaults free one? it's very good.
I'd never even heard of Audio Assault. Thanks for the heads-up!
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Old 01-15-2016, 05:15 PM   #136
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Hi, and welcome . . . .

Reaper is a bit daunting at first, but your decision to go with it is a good one.

Try this link for setting up: https://www.reddit.com/r/WeAreTheMus...d_an_akai_mpk/

That ought to get the Akai recognised in Reaper.

Reaper takes some learning to start with. I DO recommend Kenny Gioia's videos here: https://www.groove3.com/reaper-train...er-4-explained

[These vids are All for Reaper4, but the core details are good for reaper5, certainly fine for learning how Reaper works] I'm sure dedicated Reaper5 vids WILL appear as time goes along . . . .

I have ALL of Kenny's vids - and they are great value, both in the clear way they are presented and the amount of detail.

The "Reaper 4 explained" is more that 7.5 Hrs long and is a great overview.

There is a $15 /month access scheme, but I opted to buy for $40

EACH of the vids has a "sample chapter" that can be viewed for free to give you an idea . . .

Don't forget the Manual itself. Its a big read, but contains lots of detail.

Also available (free to view) are these vids: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=76872

And these, from Paul C : http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=154715

Hope that is of some help

Best Regards

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Old 01-15-2016, 05:40 PM   #137
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I DO recommend Kenny Gioia's videos here: https://www.groove3.com/reaper-train...er-4-explained
+1

I had a decade of DAW use before I moved to REAPER, but Kenny's REAPER Explained videos were totally worth it for my smooth transition.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:00 PM   #138
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Going all the way back to the sfz doesn't sound good comment. It is all about the samples. No one is going to go professionally record every instrument in a symphony orchestra in a acoustically beautiful hall with a dozen articulations played by a professional musician and then give away the samples. If they spend that kind of money they are going through Kontakt or their own engine, not a free sfz player.

Those of us who play in the realm of free instruments are well aware of this. We are glad when Karoryfer or Ivy comes along and adds to the accumulated store of free instruments. But we also know that all successful artists will move on to vastly better and vastly more expensive instruments as they become pros. That is kind of the point and probably why a significant number of my hits come from second and third world countries.

On topic
PianoTeq
Sampletekk Black Grand
The Nashville expansion for EZ Drummer
Kirk Hunter Diamond Orchestra
Realivox Blue
oh and the huge toybox that is NI's KU
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:08 PM   #139
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I love the term 'sfz', got a nice tang to it, short and sweet, romantic even.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:24 PM   #140
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That is kind of the point and probably why a significant number of my hits come from second and third world countries.
Hey, I used the free University of Iowa anechoic samples for a few years. I made my own sampler instruments out of them and even managed to make a Hollywood TV composer think it was a live trumpet with some very detailed programming. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a lot more work than expensive software instruments!
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:27 PM   #141
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Synth1 by Ichiro Toda

I have collected somewhere north of 15000 (fifteen thousand) presets for it.

Dexed by Digital Suburban

It's the DX7 you've always wanted. It comes with over a thousand presets.


Whoa I had forgotten about Kairatune it's running right now and I'm diggin.
And since Dexed can read DX-7 dumps, there are thousands more on-line. It's great if you want FM!

I would also add Plogue sforzando for playing back soundfonts. Some searching and you can build up a great library of free samples. It will convert SF2 as well.


Anything by TAL is good. I have all three of his paid VSTi. They are only $60 each, have a great GUI and sound. The Juno is killer and the sampler is also very cool.

While it can eat up CPU cycles, Diva is wonderful. It has a variety of architectures and sounds very good. U-he has good support plus they have a license plan, much like Reaper. It is registered to YOU and can be used on multiple machines.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:35 PM   #142
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Anything by TAL is good. I have all three of his paid VSTi. They are only $60 each, have a great GUI and sound. The Juno is killer and the sampler is also very cool.
Definitely. The filters on their Juno are amazing.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:38 PM   #143
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Really? I have this and see only 32 presets.

I'm missing a few...
It has a somewhat weird interface that is not intuitive for me.

Press the CART button for more 'cartridges'. Then LOAD. The same for other patches you download. It reads a standard DX-7 dump, and there are many available to download.
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:31 PM   #144
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To be honest, it would take time (that I haven't got atm) to go through and pick individual alternatives but, let's just say that I've been around plugins long enough to know that there are many free and cheap plugin that will do what some of the bx stuff does. The only one that seems pretty unique to me is stereomaker and opto pedal (of the ones I have).
Speaking of which, I just got Sandman for about £16 through an offer, which does stuff I haven't seen on any other delay plugin

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Old 01-15-2016, 09:17 PM   #145
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Great timing! Just saw today's offer from PA ___ Sandman bundled with Blue Chorus2 Pedal both for US$40. Really like Sandman video and glad you are impressed!
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:38 PM   #146
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Great timing! Just saw today's offer from PA ___ Sandman bundled with Blue Chorus2 Pedal both for US$40. Really like Sandman video and glad you are impressed!
Yeah, and I've already got the chorus pedal, which is a good recreation of the original Boss pedal, if you like that kind of thing.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:26 PM   #147
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Hey, I used the free University of Iowa anechoic samples for a few years. I made my own sampler instruments out of them and even managed to make a Hollywood TV composer think it was a live trumpet with some very detailed programming. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't a lot more work than expensive software instruments!
You still have those instruments? I'd love to see them.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:26 AM   #148
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You still have those instruments? I'd love to see them.
Nope, they were lost when I upgraded OS and ditched Logic (they were EXS24 instruments). I did make a few, but the trumpet was the only half-respectable one. I'll see if I can find any songs with it on...
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:45 AM   #149
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I'm pretty surprised that nobody so far has mentioned "CurveCM" (magware, ok, not really "free"). Admittedly I don't use it on a regular basis since I'm rather oldschool when it comes to synth sounds. But every once in a while I need some contemporary synths for corporate videos, and I love what I hear.

EDIT: haha, just realised it's not about "Your favourite FREE virtual instruments" . So it'd be just "Curve", without CM. I guess.
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:17 AM   #150
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I'm pretty surprised that nobody so far has mentioned "CurveCM" (magware, ok, not really "free"). Admittedly I don't use it on a regular basis since I'm rather oldschool when it comes to synth sounds. But every once in a while I need some contemporary synths for corporate videos, and I love what I hear.
So much great content put there and easy to overlook some. This is very interesting and their Demo policy is cool for my purposes _ including library content.
Also noted several presets by one of my favs .... Pluginguru (John Lehmkuhl)

Thanks for the tip!

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Old 01-16-2016, 10:19 AM   #151
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Everything by Eastwest, the Hollywood series in particular.

As to soft synths, I really like Omnisphere 2; and synthmaster is quite something. Plus obviously NI Komplete 10 Ultimate.

For all of these, there is so much going on under the hood that I haven't explored yet ... safe to say that I probably less than 1%.
Most (good) symphonic samples libraries are too expensive for the average Joe, like me. Vienna Symphonic and Spitfire Audio British Modular Libraries sell for thousands of $.

^For the rest of us, I just stumbled on this post that compares a few entry level libraries and one that seems to stand out and is affordable is the Kirk Hunter Diamond orchestral library. 65Gb of goodness for $150 only (and maybe less during sales). The only problem is it works only with Kontakt Expensive Edition (i.e not Player).
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:07 PM   #152
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I dropped some brass stuff from Kirk Hunter into a midi I found. It's not perfect, but gives you an idea.

https://soundcloud.com/joe-stevens-16/sets/brass-stuff
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:48 PM   #153
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The most important thing for me is the raw sound and if I like the sound of the filter. This emulation is a big thumbs up for me in the sound department. I wish he would of released the paid, more feature rich big brother of this but I guess it's not to be.
Is there any way to get rid of the aliasing? I thought first that it is asliasing, then I thought that it is some kind of pitch-shifting artifacts (probably still would have been aliasing), but I think I was right the first time. I'm not sure what all of the emu stuff is for, so maybe there is something that will kill it?

On the interface, maybe just using it it more will make flipping through pages faster. I think I will tinker with it here and there.
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:52 AM   #154
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Night Flight String Synth with Arts Acoustic Big Rock
Kontakt
Diva
Bazille
Superior Drummer 2
Zebra HZ (The Dark Zebra)
SuperWave Tiny Pops
GSi VB3
Hive
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:12 AM   #155
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When I purchased Omnisphere2 a few months back, I was tempted to uninstall every other vst synth I had, but I kept a few:

Korg Wavestation
Synth 1
Alchemy Player
Rhino
z3ta+2.

The thing with Omnisphere2 is, it doesn't have a 'standard' piano sound... it has lots of pianos, but they're all offbeat or weird. But Omnisphere is by very, very far the best synth I have ever owned. It does everything and does it very well. It has a polished professional sound, and a massive sound library. I will be making new sounds on it in 10 years from now. The only other new synth that looks interesting now is Falcon, I wouldn't mind giving that a try... but most high-end synths don't have demo versions - possibly because their sound libraries are too large.

For drums I use Stylus RMX and if Spectrasonics updates that, I will buy it immediately.
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Old 01-17-2016, 05:19 AM   #156
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I dropped some brass stuff from Kirk Hunter into a midi I found. It's not perfect, but gives you an idea.

https://soundcloud.com/joe-stevens-16/sets/brass-stuff
That's some seriously polite Mahler!

You could get more of the menacing rasping brass sound from Miroslav Philharmonik (original version, and no doubt the new one).

I realise these renditions are hampered by being general MIDI though.

I was tempted by the reduced price Kirk Hunter Diamond(which I am sure is good value) though I am much more of a synth guy.
Several things stopped me but chiefly 65GB is a killer for my heinously slow broadband (I have never used that much in a month). Even downloads 1/10th of that size are a serious undertaking.

All that effort for a less than top grade library to eat up a very large portion of the SSD.

It's probably a good choice for a music student on a tight budget with traditional HDDs and access to fast broadband.
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:18 AM   #157
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Yeah, I'm only half joking of course.

It's interesting (to me anyway) to see the features develop in soft synths.
I sometimes visit KVR when I'm feeling masochistic bored with acoustic instruments, but the overriding focus there is largely on what's the latest toy or the "realest analog sounding" and noticeably an obsession with automation and modulation. They're not neccessarily bad things, but....

To me, that excessive focus on modulation comes from a restlessness and trying to create something that feels meaningful by making it ever-changing. Like you can banish the dullness by distracting the attention from it.

It doesn't often work unless your already talented or tuned in; and if it's mostly pre-set then it kind of defeats the purpose of feeling that you're creating on-the-fly.
I find this curiously both misguided and contradicting Of course playing an instrument isn't going to work unless you are talented and tuned in, don't know why synths would be an exception. Maybe people get this idea because you can download them for free.

Modulation is in synths so that static oscillators can be made more responsive. Surely a pure, digitally produced saw at C3 is as boring and static as it gets, and this is why modulation was invented. And it doesn't really mean throwing random LFOs on it, the matrixes are there so you can link velocity and note to various parameters that control the response and timbre of the sound, to make a synth feel like a living instrument when you play it. Of course programming synths like this requires a lot of skill and experience on both general synthesis, and also on that particular synth.

I feel most people just play presets and collect dozens of the big name synths without ever learning to make use of what they already have.



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Even Brian Eno said you can play a reasonable hit song by holding down one key of most modern soft-synths. How many people are playing softsynths "live" at gigs in any meaningful sense of "playing live"?

No doubt some are, and I'm not a synth-hater, but a lot of "live" stuff is arguably a few button pushes away from just putting on a CD and miming.
_

In a documentary on youtube, Eno picks up his electric guitar and explains that he'd like synths to be more like strats. "There's far too many options with modern synths. Not like this guitar.It's limited to just a few basic sounds, but they're very useful basic sounds".
Or words to that effect.
That's of course not true, making a hit song by one note on even the most complex modern synth is utterly impossible. About live playing, I have no stats of course but I personally record all tracks just like with any other instrument, we have people here on this forum who use REAPER only to host softsynths for their live sets, and as an example Philip Glass Ensemble plays softsynths in their live sets.

Now a lot of modern music is sequenced, and playing those tracks isn't exactly possible by human players. Whether or not all of that music is listenable is another discussion, and those artists may control some other aspects of the instruments than notes.

And finally about simplicity- Eno is of course right, if you don't understand your instrument and it's interface prevents immediate, intuitive interaction, it's garbage for inspired playing. If you need "monster synths" that do all 82 types of synthesis on their 15 pages with REAPER-style messy interface for sound design, that's different, but I prefer having a small set of specialized tools that excel at certain things. Very much like having a strat, a bass and an acoustic guitar.

P.S. It has to be said that nobody ever made interesting music with a strat ;-)
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Old 01-17-2016, 07:24 AM   #158
noise_construct
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Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Where do you draw the lolz line?

Is flanger lol? Ring modulation? Delay? Soft clipping, overdrive and saturation? Reverb?

When you take out everything that is emulating an analogue effect, what are you left with? Bit crusher?

If you expect digital audio stuff to behave exactly like analogue stuff, then that is somewhat naive. However, if you treat these emulations as simulacra to be used on their own terms, and judged by their own merits, then there's no reason they are at all inferior to more "computery" stuff.

What does it matter if one person adds a high-pass and some harmonic distortion, and another just pulls out a console emulation? Is one funny and the other not?
(Another post I missed)

You're confusing an audio effect with specific hardware unit. A VST flanger doesn't necessarily emulate any specific unit (unless it does that ), it implements the flanger effect via DSP algorithm. Just like the analog unit implements the flanger effect on a circuit board.

If two people add high pass and some harmonic distortion, but one of them pays 299eur for it because it "emulates perfectly this highly coveted REAL ANALOGUE CONSOLE and it even has a fake 3D GUI with glowing tubes!", then yes, it's lol.
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Old 01-17-2016, 08:16 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
I find this curiously both misguided and contradicting
Thank you.

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Of course playing an instrument isn't going to work unless you are talented and tuned in, don't know why synths would be an exception. Maybe people get this idea because you can download them for free.
Then you have a different definition of playing an instrument live than I do.

You go on to say that most "musicians" indeed can't play this stuff live.

Basically because it's "written in" by people who needn't be able to actually play.

That's the underlying point.

There's no need to be able to play if everything is pre-automated.

Which supports my point that many synth artists might as well stick on a CD while "playing live"

Again, I'm not proscribing what anyone should do....just pointing out the obvious inconsistencies.
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Old 01-17-2016, 08:36 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
Thank you.


Then you have a different definition of playing an instrument live than I do.

You go on to say that most "musicians" indeed can't play this stuff live.

Basically because it's "written in" by people who needn't be able to actually play.

That's the underlying point.

There's no need to be able to play if everything is pre-automated.

Which supports my point that many synth artists might as well stick on a CD while "playing live"

Again, I'm not proscribing what anyone should do....just pointing out the obvious inconsistencies.

No, I'm not saying that most musicians can't play this stuff live. I'm saying it's impossible to play many parts of modern music by human hands, the actions are too fast and involve too many controls. This isn't "lack of skill", it's using the computer to break new grounds in music.

Creating these sequences is different skillset than playing a traditional instrument, and it's of course impossible to rank these skills objectively- you seem to work on basis of prejudice, stereotyping and generalisation and lack of understanding.

A "guitarist" can go on stage, put on a CD and play airguitar, music is prerecorded anyway. Does this possibility make all guitars "bad"? That's how your "logic" appears.
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