Old 12-20-2014, 09:44 AM   #1
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 3,859
Default Synthedit "Crash Prophylaxis Wrapper"?

So, it occurs to me is the Synthedit-crashy problem something that could be intercepted with a wrapper VST that "fixed" them?

Maybe too involved of a thing for anyone to tackle, but maybe it's just passing a value differently? I'd pay $5-10 to have a couple of VSTi's I use be stable...
__________________
]]]>-guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com-<[[[
Experiencing Guitar: Essays from Teaching by Chip McDonald https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521877823..._QZJxAbA4GVDC1
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 10:40 AM   #2
Lazarus
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,355
Default

Does running them in dedicated processes not fix the clash?
Lazarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:28 AM   #3
RunBeerRun
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 547
Default

Synthedit plugins are the only ones that DONT crash for me. The SE 1.0 engine was stable, except for multiple instances, you copy and paste it first on your hard drive.

SE 1.1 onwards introduced more problems.
__________________
Free Synthedit/Synthmaker plugins that I made: runbeerrun dot blogspot dot com
RunBeerRun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:46 AM   #4
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,025
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunBeerRun View Post
you copy and paste it first on your hard drive.
Wow, isn't that convenient.
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass, Paul(X)Stretch and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 12:59 AM   #5
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 3,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Does running them in dedicated processes not fix the clash?
It seems that way sometimes, but other times it's worse.

That falls into the "Reaper settings that are more nebulous and abstruse" category. "Is it really helping?", seems like I go back and forth.
__________________
]]]>-guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com-<[[[
Experiencing Guitar: Essays from Teaching by Chip McDonald https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521877823..._QZJxAbA4GVDC1
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 01:06 AM   #6
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
So, it occurs to me is the Synthedit-crashy problem something that could be intercepted with a wrapper VST that "fixed" them?

I'd pay $5-10 to have a couple of VSTi's I use be stable...
This is a great idea, if it's possible, and I'd pay a little more than that.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:18 AM   #7
bibz1st
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
Default

Would using something like Mutools Mux or ImageLines Minihost not work like that, they are vst's that can host other vst's.
bibz1st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:59 AM   #8
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,025
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibz1st View Post
Would using something like Mutools Mux or ImageLines Minihost not work like that, they are vst's that can host other vst's.
The problem with that is that if the SynthEdit plugins also crash the wrapper host plugin, Reaper will also go down with them...The only way to get some protection against crashes would be to host the plugins in a separate process, which the Reaper bit bridging could already do, though. (The Reaper bit bridging thing can also "firewall" 32 bit plugins when using the 32 bit Reaper, it's not just for running 32 bit plugins when using the 64 bit Reaper build.) That said, the best solution is to just drop using the problematic SynthEdit plugins. Surely they can't be so unique as to not have suitable stable replacements?
__________________
For info on SWS Reaper extension plugin (including Xenakios' previous extension/actions) :
http://www.sws-extension.org/
https://github.com/Jeff0S/sws
--
Xenakios blog (about HourGlass, Paul(X)Stretch and λ) :
http://xenakios.wordpress.com/
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 10:43 PM   #9
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 3,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
Surely they can't be so unique as to not have suitable stable replacements?
There are a couple free VSTis that I like that are, as far as I know, pretty unique. Mainly an ESQ-1 emulation (SQL8) that is spot on, but also Tal's Juno 106 and Rumpelrausch Taips' Crazy Diamonds. And various Mellotrons. I'm not sure if all are Synthedit, but they're usually the culprits...
__________________
]]]>-guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com-<[[[
Experiencing Guitar: Essays from Teaching by Chip McDonald https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521877823..._QZJxAbA4GVDC1
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 11:06 PM   #10
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

I would be reluctant to relinquish some of my old favourites, too.

FWIW, I've used Crazy Diamonds and Elektrostudio's Tapeotronic Mellotron recently without any issues. Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 01:16 AM   #11
Ollie
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Ollie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
There are a couple free VSTis that I like that are, as far as I know, pretty unique. Mainly an ESQ-1 emulation (SQL8) that is spot on, but also Tal's Juno 106 [...] I'm not sure if all are Synthedit
Those two are not SE for example, but at least SQL8 is quite known to be crashy on all hosts. Nothing will help that except fixing the plug-in, which won't happen. Running all shaky plug-ins in a dedicated process avoids losing too much work in general and addresses particularly the old SE (multicore/multi-instance) bugs, it's synonymous with your "wrapper". Do not confuse "dedicated" and "separate".

It does not automatically fix specific bugs introduced beyond SE, e.g. in SE custom modules etc. or makes crashy plug-ins of all kinds less crashy. Many of those plug-ins were made in ancient times on Pentium I-IV single-core computers and run best on those, but some plug-ins were not particularly stable on those computers either.

I also got the impression that some of them don't like 64-bit operating systems or REAPER 64, not sure, in which case the dedicated process doesn't help as much.

While not all SE plug-ins are equally "unsafe", avoiding them when possible in general and using them very, very sparsely at most is the best strategy to avoid really complex and confusing trouble caused by non-threadsafe examples. Very, very few are worth dealing with projects working now and not anymore next month. If you consider this, it may be actually a good thing if they crash right away and not after you made a killer tune with them that you never get to mix/render/show or hear again later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
That's the multi-instance bug that all SE plug-ins made before 2010 have, and a part of what the dedicated process is good for.

Last edited by Ollie; 12-22-2014 at 01:26 AM.
Ollie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 02:19 AM   #12
bibz1st
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Problems only occur if I try to run more than one instance of any Synthedit plug-in.
Do you know about about the copying/renaming trick with such vst's ?
bibz1st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 02:55 AM   #13
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 3,370
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bibz1st View Post
Do you know about about the copying/renaming trick with such vst's ?
Yes, thanks. I've never had a problem if the 2nd instance is renamed, and it's very rare that I have to run two instances of a Synthedit VST anyway, but I'd still like to be able to, without all the messing about.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 10:45 AM   #14
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 3,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
I also got the impression that some of them don't like 64-bit operating systems or REAPER 64, not sure, in which case the dedicated process doesn't help as much.
Yeah, I've migrated back to Reaper 32 because it seemed that they were crashing more in 64.

Quote:
That's the multi-instance bug that all SE plug-ins made before 2010 have, and a part of what the dedicated process is good for.
Ok.

I'd forgotten about the renamed .dll trick, I suppose that definitely works/helps?
__________________
]]]>-guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com-<[[[
Experiencing Guitar: Essays from Teaching by Chip McDonald https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521877823..._QZJxAbA4GVDC1
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 10:56 AM   #15
Ollie
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Ollie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
I'd forgotten about the renamed .dll trick, I suppose that definitely works/helps?
IIRC it did when I tried it many many moons ago, but it's unnecessary if you run them in a dedicated process, which you should do at any rate if you're using more than one (instance or type of) SE plug-in anyway, for many reasons but mostly because it can't bite you in the behind so badly then (plug-in crashing the whole project on startup out of the blue...you name it).
Ollie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.