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03-18-2012, 02:11 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 9,052
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please nothing but midi
this is just a request for developers to please focus all resources on midi. reaper is pretty good for audio. i love how it works. i understand there may be bugs that need fixing. but midi could really use alot of work in many respects. i for one would be incredibly happy if nothing changed about reaper except for midi improvements.
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Slava Ukraini
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03-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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A little selfish, but I endorse your feelings, mate
on the other hand realistically things will proceed at the pace at which they proceed.
And now we have the MIDI and Other Stuff ghetto, we can all snuggle down in there and have a good whine without disturbing the Rest of The Forum (grin)
Further thoughts: It isn't that Reapers MIDI implementation is bad, it is more a case of that it limps into a very distant last place when compared with the audio etc side of things.
Reaper is a great program.
Compact code, its fast and it is stable & despite all the whining in the themes section for the most part it doesn't look at all bad.
And that is the problem. The good bits make the not so good bits look worse than they really are by comparison.
Reaper's MIDI isn't THAT bad, really. Just that there are a number of other programs that allow for a much easier and smoother workflow, plus incorporating a lot of the basic MIDI editing options that Reaper doesn't have yet.
YET.
Last edited by ivansc; 03-18-2012 at 04:39 PM.
Reason: Dont want to throw the baby out with the bathwater
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03-18-2012, 03:06 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
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Everbody talks about how bad Reaper's MIDI are
but what's exactly? Could everyone be more specific? Or if this was discussed already (point by point) where can i read about it? All i read so far is how poor MIDI capabilities are, but nothing specific. I ask because for me its good for example. So whats the problem? Srsly...
Last edited by Viente; 03-18-2012 at 03:19 PM.
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03-18-2012, 03:30 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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-We want the ability to work on multiple midi clips at once. This could be extract groove/apply groove, "Q" (with setting dialog).
-We want improved workflow. For example, being able to "Q" w/o opening the midi clip in the editor, better inline editing.
-We want focus on annoying behavior to be addressed.
Thought I'd give a couple of examples rather than the "improve midi" generalization. Though my little examples are rather mundane compared to the more detailed ideas ya'all have.
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03-18-2012, 05:18 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Afford Slaughterhouse, FL
Posts: 624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente
Everbody talks about how bad Reaper's MIDI are
but what's exactly? Could everyone be more specific? Or if this was discussed already (point by point) where can i read about it? All i read so far is how poor MIDI capabilities are, but nothing specific. I ask because for me its good for example. So whats the problem? Srsly...
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We have been very specific before. Just search the forums.
__________________
It takes an ordered complex system to recognize another ordered complex system.
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03-18-2012, 11:58 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 9
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I agree with the OP but I'm getting pessimistic because I think the developers don't see the need for MIDI improvements as a top priority (for whatever reason). I love a lot of things about REAPER but the MIDI and automation need serious work. Even with all the threads, polls, and GIFs, we can't shake them.
I'm waiting to see what Bitwig has to offer because I've tried Ableton Live and I was leaning towards it until Bitwig made the announcement.
Also, I'm sure some light MIDI user is going to chime in and say:
"I can do everything I want with REAPER's MIDI"
"REAPER's MIDI is great for me but then again, I'm a Midiot"
"You guys just need to learn how to play better"
"Why not use FL studio then render and import in REAPER"
"When you buy software, you buy it as is and not for future improvements"
"I've recorded 5 albums with REAPER, and I didn't have a problem"
"REAPER's price is unbeatable"
"The OP is a troll"
"The 10 steps to getting your FR implemented are...blah, blah, blah"
"The developers know what's best so give them time"
BTW, how can Justin and Schwa know what's best when they don't make music on a daily basis? Wouldn't it make more sense to listen to guys who are making music day and night?
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03-19-2012, 12:43 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 1,708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente
Everbody talks about how bad Reaper's MIDI are
but what's exactly? Could everyone be more specific? Or if this was discussed already (point by point) where can i read about it? All i read so far is how poor MIDI capabilities are, but nothing specific. I ask because for me its good for example. So whats the problem? Srsly...
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Here's a few. There is no instrument manager. The attempt at an instrument manager is in that control midi plugin. An instrument manager needs to be port and channel specific. Need drop down lists and spinners on tcp widgets for midi parameters. Dialing through 128 midi presets on a little knob widget on the TCP is hard work. Same for not being able to plus and minus on a transpose spinner widget on the tcp.
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03-19-2012, 01:19 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca
Posts: 480
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Midi (a priority)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep
this is just a request for developers to please focus all resources on midi. reaper is pretty good for audio. i love how it works. i understand there may be bugs that need fixing. but midi could really use alot of work in many respects. i for one would be incredibly happy if nothing changed about reaper except for midi improvements.
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I agree... I also believe nothing would make Reaper stronger in the marketplace than to make midi really strong...
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03-19-2012, 02:24 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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I disagree. I use VERY little midi. While there is much it needs, I would like to see a balance so everyone moves forward. Improve comping, metronome and the many many bugs and frs across the board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep
this is just a request for developers to please focus all resources on midi. reaper is pretty good for audio. i love how it works. i understand there may be bugs that need fixing. but midi could really use alot of work in many respects. i for one would be incredibly happy if nothing changed about reaper except for midi improvements.
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03-19-2012, 02:25 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazed
Here's a few. There is no instrument manager. The attempt at an instrument manager is in that control midi plugin. An instrument manager needs to be port and channel specific. Need drop down lists and spinners on tcp widgets for midi parameters. Dialing through 128 midi presets on a little knob widget on the TCP is hard work. Same for not being able to plus and minus on a transpose spinner widget on the tcp.
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Yep.
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03-19-2012, 03:40 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep
this is just a request for developers to please focus all resources on midi. reaper is pretty good for audio. i love how it works. i understand there may be bugs that need fixing. but midi could really use alot of work in many respects. i for one would be incredibly happy if nothing changed about reaper except for midi improvements.
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I completely agree!!! Reaper has brilliant routing and customization, but the MIDI...
I would suggest NO new MIDI features until what we have is tidied and tightened up, unless the new features are a byproduct of that process...
Timing is crucial. We need quick, transparent, precise and reliable control over the timing of MIDI events. I'm personally not that worried about workflow, because no one listening to my music knows whether it took 1 keystroke or 10, but they know if I have failed to make it swing!
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03-19-2012, 03:49 AM
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#12
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
I disagree. I use VERY little midi. While there is much it needs, I would like to see a balance so everyone moves forward. Improve comping, metronome and the many many bugs and frs across the board.
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^^this.
While my music is 90% MIDI based and I sure want improvements I still wouldn't like to see everything else going on the back burner. Of course I'm confident that won't happen anyway .
MIDI is a pretty wide field and everybody seems to mean something different when he says improvements. Apart from the track based approach none of the things mentioned are even remotely top of my personal list.
- My personal top concern is how Reaper handles MIDI item splitting. I barely ever quantize or snap MIDI events which makes it's hard to find split points which don't cross note events so I've got to deal with short note blips far too often. The imprecise MIDI preview in the arrange just enhances the problem. It's totally impossible when you have chords above notes that ring across several of them. You just cannot split between the chords without cutting the long notes.
- Then I would massively benefit from a much better event filter with many more filter conditions. And an enhanced event list which allows to edit fields - without opening another dialog box - and which is not an alternative view, so I can have piano roll, event list and filter open (nicely docked to each other).
- The action list is leaving much to be desired in the MIDI sections. From the top of my head, setting the note length field isn't possible without the mouse, same as setting the active note row, just to mention two. There's plenty more. Extension coders can't register actions to the MIDI sections, that should be changed too (as well as ReaScript access to MIDI).
I could go on a while until the things everybody else mentioned here will appear.
Yet putting everything else on the back burner would absolutely disappoint me. I still want a much better mouse modifier dialog, an improved routing matrix (though, my main niggles there are MIDI related as well), automation items, many spots where access to functions and settings could be better, etc and so on and on...
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03-19-2012, 04:55 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 9,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente
Everbody talks about how bad Reaper's MIDI are
but what's exactly? Could everyone be more specific? Or if this was discussed already (point by point) where can i read about it? All i read so far is how poor MIDI capabilities are, but nothing specific. I ask because for me its good for example. So whats the problem? Srsly...
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well everything in the original post for one thing. it's just workflow stuff. other programs are based more on midi or facilitate midi better. the layout and stuff like that. reaper is a very good program but it was definitely created first and foremost for audio, and it is very good at that. but midi was kind of a side thing, that is getting better and better, but could still use some improvements.
for example it didn't used to have swing, that's quite new, and to me, quite basic, and there are other things, like not being able to record from within a piano roll without a passthrough key combination?
idk, there are many little things, and it depends how involved into midi you want to go, but if you decide you're going to program some midi or program and play some midi in combination to record, then you will enjoy the experience much better with something like studio one or cubase.
if you're going to use your midi as just a means to emulate an instrument like as a piano live record, then reaper's midi is just as good as any other.
it's just when you want to go and do midi you want to have everything you need at your fingertips. not do workarounds and all this. and reaper is very flexible in terms of customization so you can get whatever working however you want as well, but the actions in the piano roll are much more limited than in track view, and this i find is the largest flaw.
because a great deal of things could be fixed were it for that. and you could go above and beyond as well.
here's another example. cubase has an easy way to solo your midi you're working on. a simple button. great in some cases. can't do it in reaper. can't even do it with your own actions bound to a button in your toolbar.
little things like that. but little things like that make the difference between an easily flowing creative environment where your daw is your helping hand and is not getting in the way, and the conflict and friction of you fighting your daw instead of creating and then eventually out of annoyance visiting the forum in order to start an fr that hopefully one day soon will get resolved. and in many cases will to the credit of the devs, depending i guess on whether other people agree.
but there are probably some large underlying issues preventing the awesomeness that reaper's midi could be. so for me, it would be worth it if the devs just went on a midi spree. kind of a revamp. made more actions available for it, just tried other daws and how their midi works, and try to implement as many of those great features as possible.
i mean i like the rest of how reaper works. everything is great for me, except maybe the backups filling up my hard drive. and i know people will have bugs that i won't have, and i know those need to be addressed, but other than that, for me, i think reaper would be best served to improve only in the midi department.
__________________
Slava Ukraini
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03-19-2012, 05:06 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Not sending all notes off to external hardware when using mute/solo is a pretty big minus, and a VERY EASY FIX...
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03-19-2012, 05:11 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,763
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Selfish, OP.
I'm more interested in fixing/expanding the surround mixing capabilities. I'd like the devs to judge what fixes are important and hit those first, which I'm sure they will.
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03-19-2012, 05:16 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posts: 1,965
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I've lost track how many times people have been asking about improvements to Reaper's midi functions.
I have yet to see any of these requests or suggestions being acknowledged by any of the devs. Unless I missed it of course -- in which case, apologies.
The devs do not have to justify what they are doing to any of us, but it would be quite nice to know that they are at least aware of their customer's concerns in this particular area.
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03-19-2012, 05:30 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 447
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I hereby offer to donate my copy of Pro Tools 8 or 9 to The Devs to inspect. Sure, it's no Logic from what I hear, but if they can make Reaper AT LEAST as good as PT with respect to midi, then I'll be happy.
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03-19-2012, 05:37 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djjedidiah
I hereby offer to donate my copy of Pro Tools 8 or 9 to The Devs to inspect. Sure, it's no Logic from what I hear, but if they can make Reaper AT LEAST as good as PT with respect to midi, then I'll be happy.
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not a bad strategy \\
im confused as to why the devs havent gone this route or got an experienced midi coder onboard to completely overhaul it.
did i ever mention AUTOMATION needs a rework too?
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03-19-2012, 06:07 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strunkdts
not a bad strategy \\
im confused as to why the devs havent gone this route or got an experienced midi coder onboard to completely overhaul it.
did i ever mention AUTOMATION needs a rework too?
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whats wrong with automation? LOL
Am i doing something wrong but for my workflow im only missing fx slot based system
I'm not claim there is nothing to improve but for me the word "rework" sounds not as good as "improve" or "add something new"
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03-19-2012, 07:12 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth R.
Selfish, OP.
I'm more interested in fixing/expanding the surround mixing capabilities. I'd like the devs to judge what fixes are important and hit those first, which I'm sure they will.
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With all due respect, I don't think the op is at all selfish. It is very logical.
The audio in Reaper is stunningly good; it is renowned for this as well as it's routing and toollbar, menu and gui customization potential. MIDI in Reaper isn't unusable but it lacks the 'Reaperness' of the other functions.
Your post regarding surround mixing isn't selfish either; this does seem to be one part of the audio in Reaper which needs advancement (although personally I have no interest in surround mixing).
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03-19-2012, 09:05 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 294
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If I could just add, I am new to Reaper and I am a sound engineer of over 28 years standing coming up through the analogue school of cutting and splicing tape, through to digital. I have always used my ears to edit, thank God we were born with them. There are numerous programs out there that deal very well with midi and music making but very few programs that deal with audio recording (the human voice) and editing. Even Reaper labels itself as a DAW to make music. However, I have found that Reaper is the closet I have come to a true audio editing. The ability to scroll/jog through audio, listen to it, select an in and out point and make the edit. Nuendo have tried it but fail dismally on the jog/shuttle scenario. I don't use midi and if I did, I would probably use something else like Logic. My hope is that Reaper will continue to develop the audio/audio post production side of things and perhaps enhance the file transfer protocol, concentrating on decent omf/aaf import and export. Naturally, we use the system for different purposes, it is not a question of being selfish or otherwise but from my point of view, to have enhance audio features as above would be a dream. I would concur with the previous poster with regards to surround mixing. I believe that this will become more and more important and to have a capacity for that would do no harm. I have evaluated around 8 DAW programs and Reaper comes out tops.
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03-19-2012, 09:53 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 447
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Little things like this used to make me happy
Yay for velocity stalks!
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03-19-2012, 12:46 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Velocity stalks would be nice. Currently you have to zoom in a little too far to adjust the V per.
@"selfish" op:
Guys, I think there is a little TNC going on with both ends. I see nothing that is actually selfish.
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03-19-2012, 01:27 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Please nothing but area selection.
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03-19-2012, 01:33 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 447
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And it should look like this
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03-19-2012, 01:41 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A metropolitan bubble
Posts: 1,126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon
Please nothing but area selection.
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....and automation items, flexiwarpwarp time, groove quantise.
And midi.
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03-19-2012, 03:04 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
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Please nothing but slot based fx system.
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03-19-2012, 03:04 PM
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#28
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Please also do nothing but make the I/O window cooler and faster
Eg, selection of multiple sends and receives and then do stuff on them en masse - change pre/post position, assign in and output channels (all changing to the same channel or sequentially)...
Ah yes, and selecting the track input would also be quite something for an I/O window
Just please do nothing but everything, will you?
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03-19-2012, 03:44 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Please do nothing, at all, ever.... why satisfy only some of the people when you cannot satisfy everyone?
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03-19-2012, 07:09 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, UK
Posts: 158
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Well ... i like MIDI... but i also like AUDIO... but which is best??? theres only one way to find out,,,,,....
Figgghhhttt!!!....
)
(UK only joke!)
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03-19-2012, 07:12 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: England, UK
Posts: 158
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Im thinking of going back to my cassette based Tascam 488 MKII Portastudio!... no softwaere update required :-)
SERIOUSLY!!!!
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03-19-2012, 07:41 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,290
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Everybody knows...
...the early Edison Cylinder Tin Foil Phonograph was best!
1. Letter writing and all kinds of dictation without the aid of a stenographer.
2. Phonographic books, which will speak to blind people without effort on their part.
3. The teaching of elocution.
4. Reproduction of music.
5. The "Family Record"--a registry of sayings, reminiscences, etc., by members of a family in their own voices, and of the last words of dying persons.
6. Music-boxes and toys.
7. Clocks that should announce in articulate speech the time for going home, going to meals, etc.
8. The preservation of languages by exact reproduction of the manner of pronouncing.
9. Educational purposes; such as preserving the explanations made by a teacher, so that the pupil can refer to them at any moment, and spelling or other lessons placed upon the phonograph for convenience in committing to memory.
10. Connection with the telephone, so as to make that instrument an auxiliary in the transmission of permanent and invaluable records, instead of being the recipient of momentary and fleeting communication.
11. Midi
Still waiting for "them" to get the midi right, too!
__________________
"F" off.
Last edited by dea-man; 03-19-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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03-19-2012, 08:15 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Good for mocking some stuff up until you can get some real players to play some of the parts.
Or good completely for certain genres like hip-hop, dance, whatever.
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03-19-2012, 08:42 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
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i LOVE the inline editor! I can do so many simple adjustments with my clips without interrupting the arrangement process (especialy with macro : zoom to item & open inline editor). I can't even imagine my workflow without it!
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03-19-2012, 08:44 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidiLover
BTW, how can Justin and Schwa know what's best when they don't make music on a daily basis? Wouldn't it make more sense to listen to guys who are making music day and night?
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how do you know they aren't making music?
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03-19-2012, 09:13 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
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MidiLover, don't touch the automation! its perfect!!
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03-20-2012, 12:03 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
how do you know they aren't making music?
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They aren't using MIDI as much, it's quite obvious.
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03-20-2012, 12:53 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 302
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I don't get it, every other DAW program has better MIDI and there is an embarrassing number of DAW softwares to choose from. Why not abandon Reaper and get Live, or FL Studio, Or Sonar, Cubase, Studio One... ...Jesus, even friggin' ProTools has better MIDI. Why use Reaper?
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03-20-2012, 01:07 AM
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#39
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidiLover
I agree with the OP but I'm getting pessimistic because I think the developers don't see the need for MIDI improvements as a top priority (for whatever reason). I love a lot of things about REAPER but the MIDI and automation need serious work. Even with all the threads, polls, and GIFs, we can't shake them.
I'm waiting to see what Bitwig has to offer because I've tried Ableton Live and I was leaning towards it until Bitwig made the announcement.
Also, I'm sure some light MIDI user is going to chime in and say:
....
"The OP is a troll"
....
BTW, how can Justin and Schwa know what's best when they don't make music on a daily basis? Wouldn't it make more sense to listen to guys who are making music day and night?
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No, I don't think the OP is.
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03-20-2012, 01:17 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiDis
Why use Reaper?
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reaper is not just a DAW, its a religion thats why
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