GROUP MIX week1: "Strange Faces" submissions and discussion...!

[Alteregoxxx]

Originally Posted by Megagoth1702

By the way - does anyone have feedback on my mix? It was the first time I mixed a whole song so I need any kind of criticism/feedback I can get. Thanks in advance.

hi Megagoth...IMHO your mix sounds very "phasey" like a bad quality mp3...on the other hand your mp3 bit rate is very very low...IMHO it's impossible to judge a mix with a so poor quality...sorry

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Alteregoxxx

hi Megagoth...IMHO your mix sounds very "phasey" like a bad quality mp3...on the other hand your mp3 bit rate is very very low...IMHO it's impossible to judge a mix with a so poor quality...sorry

Megagoth, I'm going to have to agree with Alterego about it being phasey. I did go into your session file to see if it was the mp3 bit rate, but it is not. The whole mix seems overworked. you have VERY dramatic eqs on most channels (this contributes to the phase issues, try turning on the ), although most of the phase distortion is comming from the slap delays on some istruments, and the reverb setting you chose. It is a very "small" reverb, played very loud. You would do better to use a larger reverb and use it more subtly. On a side note I noticed that you tend to eq "up" (pick the frequency you want and add db to it) rather than down. The thing to remember when you do this is that everything sounds better louder, so every upward eq move will make the sound bigger and "better," whereas if you eq down (find the problem frequency and attenuate it) then when it sounds better, it more likely is better.

[doppelgangster]

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[Megagoth1702]

Thank you so much, finally some feedback so I can start asking questions.

What is "phased" or "phasing"?

With "big reverb", do you mean a longer one? Or just a "bigger room"?


About the frequencies - thank you, very useful tip.
What if I want a certain frequency range - do I just tone down all the others? I think what I tend to do is just crank up what I want and then use the gain setting to make up for the volume change.


Any more tips/opinions? I asked before on how to use ReaDelay properly, I just took over the settings from the manual-pdf, it sound OK but I think there is more "humanization" possible.


Thank you in advance!

EDIT: Any examples/links on how to use reverb properly?

[Alteregoxxx]

to get an idea of what "phasey sound" mean try this:

take any audio source of your choice and put readelay on it, with a time delay of 3-20 ms and 100% wet,100% dry...listen to the sound...this is the comb-filter effect (see wikipedia for an explanation..),commonly referred as "phasey sound"...

[Megagoth1702]

Ah, I understand.

So were you referring to the whole mix or just to the vocals?
How could I improve that? Just make the delays more quiet? I took the values from the reaper manual.

2 delays - about 5-6ms and 15-16ms. What would you suggest to make vocals sound fatter?
I read about the ozzifier, I will try that one.
Just tried, sounds ok, but similiar to ReaDelay...
Mh, need tips on this one.

Thanks in advance!

@first mix: Thats a long time ago, cant even remember it.
Perhaps I will sit down later and with all the knowledge I gathered I will make a new one. No idea, but I guess since we are in week 2 now I will practise on the next song.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Megagoth1702

With "big reverb", do you mean a longer one? Or just a "bigger room"?


About the frequencies - thank you, very useful tip.
What if I want a certain frequency range - do I just tone down all the others? I think what I tend to do is just crank up what I want and then use the gain setting to make up for the volume change.


Any more tips/opinions? I asked before on how to use ReaDelay properly, I just took over the settings from the manual-pdf, it sound OK but I think there is more "humanization" possible.

For the reverb comment, the answer is yes. Bigger room, or longer decay (they pretty much mean the same thing). It's ultimately up to your ears to determine when it's right, but usually a longer decay, quieter in the mix adds better space than a short decay (which will start to sound "boxy") sitting high in the mix. Listen to some of your favorite recordings very carefully (especially then ends of phrases, and quiet parts). You will be suprised how long some of the reverb tails are. But bear in mind that they were mixed subtly enough that you had to look hard to find them.

As for eqing, there are certainly times when bringing one frequency up is appropriate. Mainly whe trying to add attack to an instrument (like the hallmark 5k boost on kick to add the beater sound). But this should be used sparingly. An example is the EQ you used on the vox, the same curve could be achieved if you disable bands 2 and 3, enable band 1, switch it to "band" from "shelf". Set the Frq to 600, the gain to -6, and the bandwidth to 3.75. You end up with essentially the same curve.

As for re-delay, there are millions of possiblities for how to use this plugin (I used it a lot in my mix, which by no means is the gold standard, but I felt like the delay on the vox worked well). The multiple taps, and pans are very useful to create an ambiance.
Things to keep in mind:

0~20ms the brain doesn't seperate the two sounds, but interprets them as one. Here is where phasing is the greatest. Try sweeping the frequency to find a phasing pattern that compliments the track.

20ms+ as the delay gets longer the brain begins to destinguish it as a second sound, and it becoms a rythmic componant rather than spacial. I find it better to use the tempo matched "musical" length (you have to have your master tempo set to match the son for this to work. For this song, while not an exact match 145bpm worked well enough. For more accuracy there is a "tempo mapping a free form song" tutorial).

Layering multiple delays adds more depth. I've also found that even multiples work well, so if one is at 6ms do another at 12ms, or 7 and 14. This tends to keep them on the same tonal pallette, and add more depth with less phase distortion.
Be subtle with it.

Panning the delays can add a lot to a mix as well (not a moving pan, just a fixed pan).

Once you find delays that work, fade out the wet version until it sounds natural.

I'm sure there is plenty more that I'm either forgettin or don't know, but that should get you started.

[Megagoth1702]

Thank you very much.

I will try to work on a bigger but more quiet reverb, I think this is really good idea. I just learned how to use ReaVerb properly and that I can get really far without using any other Impulse files than the one reaper provides. I can make something out of that.

[Reno.thestraws]

For this song, while not an exact match 145bpm worked well enough. For more accuracy there is a "tempo mapping a free form song" tutorial).

on my session, the song is tempo mapped ,it's a 6/8 timebase and the tempo up and donw at each bars (probably record without click track)

you just need to adjust all the files with the first tempo beat

[slops]

ok, i think this mix thread has run its course, so im starting up the second group mix thread.

i just posted a thread listing some different stems, so if you are interested please go there and decide what you would like to mix next.

the thread is over here.


and thanks again to everyone that submitted mixes and/or reviewed other people's mixes!
this has been a good experience i believe for most of us.
hopefully we can continue doing this.

[Guncho]

K so I know I'm super late to the party but I'm pretty happy with this so thought I would just post it anyway.

MP3
http://www.mediafire.com/?2yrbxkgyysydge4

RPP
http://www.mediafire.com/?c5dia9qycw6n09k

[Megagoth1702]

After reading a whole bunch of articles on homestudiocorner.com and experiences gathered already I re-made my mix. Still not the way I would wish it to sound but at the moment I have no idea how to reach that goal. I will wait and learn.

I want it to sound warmer.

I did a lot of frequency work, so they dont build up muddy mountains, did some finishing EQ on the master, used nearly zero reverb and used doubling of tracks to get better sounding guitars and sound, really good stuff!

I had trouble getting the rhodes and organ up to a level where you could hear them good. So I just kept them in the background.

Of course - Reaper plugins only.

Here we go:

MP3 Mixdown
RPP File

@Guncho: your drums sound too weak and far away, the vocal has a weird distortion in it, I could not really investigate the stuff, since you used some non-reaper plugins and also glued takes together and I dont have those. I see you used a tuner to correct the singer? I think this is not needed since he did a good performance and there are no obvious mistakes.

The bass is too obvious for my taste, it overtakes the mix. Thats all I can say just having listened to it 2 times and quickly checked the RPP.
Also - please try to use box.net for further sharing, it's easier since you can listen to the track straight away.

[Guncho]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with everything you said. I usually slap Reatune on every vocal track in chromatic mode figuring that if the vocal is in key it can't hurt it. Maybe that's not a good idea. Could reatune cause distortion? I did a lot of editing on the vocal track as I found his breathing distracting. Guess I should have left it unglued. Next time!

Here's v1.1 with your suggestions.

http://www.box.net/shared/z39s2fohvh

[Guncho]

Originally Posted by Megagoth1702

After reading a whole bunch of articles on homestudiocorner.com and experiences gathered already I re-made my mix. Still not the way I would wish it to sound but at the moment I have no idea how to reach that goal. I will wait and learn.

I want it to sound warmer.

I did a lot of frequency work, so they dont build up muddy mountains, did some finishing EQ on the master, used nearly zero reverb and used doubling of tracks to get better sounding guitars and sound, really good stuff!

I had trouble getting the rhodes and organ up to a level where you could hear them good. So I just kept them in the background.

Of course - Reaper plugins only.

Here we go:

MP3 Mixdown
RPP File

Sounds really good. Couple of questions:

Why did you leave the gate off on the kick?

What is Kick2 doing?

[Megagoth1702]

Whoops, seems like I experimented with the gate and forgot to enable it again. Thanks!
RPP File
MP3 Mixdown

Kick2:

Kick signal goes into Kick2, where it gets extremely compressed and EQd so you only hear a little "plop" "plop".
Combined with the original signal it gives the kick drum a bit more attack and it cuts through the mix better.

Just go to project marker 3 and mute/unmute kick2 while the track plays. Maybe solo the drums and switch kick2 on and off to hear the difference.

About your vocal effect story: the less special effects you use the better. Before you put on an effect on a track you have to KNOW why you put it on. You have to have a goal in your head before you do something.

I played with compressor and EQ and delay and whatnot on an acoustic guitar only to find out that it sounds best without any effects, just with a tiny bit of compression and tiny bit of EQ. Thats all. Now I will never do the same mistake again, it was a lot of time, lol.

Check out (if you dont already know it) http://homestudiocorner.com/ for a really good base of knowledge about all this. Just type in what you look for like "eq guitar" or "compress drums" and you will find a lot. Help yourself!


@ 1.1:

I see the improvements, sounds much better already! The vocals are better now.
The extreme-pan of the rhodes at the beginning "feels" weird cuz the right ear (on headphones) feels empty.
The bass is still too big, it should be in the background supporting the whole thing, instead at 01:31 it eats up the guitar too much.

Did you put a compressor or something on the mix? Whenever a kick or snare hit comes, the volume goes down.

BTW: The masterlimiter I put on my last RPP was a mistake, Loudness War, bah, I removed it.

[Guncho]

Thanks man this all super helpful. On the master I have an EQ, Classic Compressor on the mix preset and a master limiter. Not a good idea? I'm not hearing the volume drop.

[Megagoth1702]

You should try to get the mix as even as possible before editing the master output, except basic stuff like low/hipass for the extreme lows and extreme highs are ok. Before turning up the volume for a snare or kick drum to make it louder think of what you could do to make it stand out more. Lower other instruments. We dont have to have the volume at 100% all the time.

I dont really know about compressors and master limiter.
The master limiter raises the volume between 0 and the threshold to 0, so if you lower the threshold to like -50 its gonna make everything inbetween that level louder. Not really a good thing if you want dynamics in your song. That pumping from the compressor I hear is not good either if it's not intentional and I dont think the song is intented to be like that.

Check this out for compression:
http://www.homestudiocorner.com/2009...ression-video/
He explains really well what it's for and what you should not do/be aware of.

[Lawrence]

I did a mix of this on my desktop rig on my small MAudio speakers. Nice song but kinda out of my normal zone.

http://dawsession.com/mixes/strange_faces.mp3

I hope I didn't screw it up too bad.

[COCPORN]

I love these kinds of assignments, what band is this? I really like the song!

I did stray from the given task, I hope that's OK. I've recently purchased some new plugins, and wanted some decent material to take it for a spin on, so I chose this; I pretty much used no internal Reaper plugins at all.

The MP3 is here: MP3
The RPP is here: RPP

Plugins used:

• Virtual Console Collection, Beta 2
• iZotope Nectar on the vocals
• iZotope Alloy on a bunch of tracks
• iZotope Ozone on the master bus
• iZotope RX2 denoiser on the master bus
• Sugar Bytes WOW filter on selected tracks

Thanks for any feedback!

EDIT: Go here for a flash player of the MP3: http://www.cocporn.com/reaper-mix-strange-faces.aspx

[pc999]

Finally found some time to work on this.


http://soundcloud.com/pc999/strange-faces


I haven't heard/seen any of the other mixs, but I hope to do it soon.

Personally the hardest thing to me in this mix as to keep the climax at its max, but also make everything to be heard (really like that piano in between the guitar)and still not make the climax to harsh/hard.

Any comments and suggestion would be welcome.
________
Headshop

[Faderjockey]

Late or Early to the game depends on how you look at it..

I actually did this tune for fun before this thread was even started.
I did it to test a few things on a new PC build.
I did it in Reaper with native plugs and a few UAD.

I sum OTB a lot when mixing. But for this PC/Mix test I did it all ITB with no outboard hardware. Just monitored out to a Dangerous D-Box.
So it's not perfect..

Thought it was funny when I saw this thread. So even though mine is older..And Sorry it's not as hyped up with mastering type stuff as some I've heard on here. This is just the Mix with maybe a little Oxford Limiter just to make the CD burn little louder.

Here it is:
http://soundcloud.com/faderjockey/strange-faces-mix

[pc999]

I see the drums , not loud but more present.

Good mix.
________
Ecigarette 123