Old 09-29-2019, 08:39 AM   #41
EpicSounds
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Congrats UEMA and good job everyone.

I feel bad I didn't have time to listen and vote this time. I didn't even vote for my own.
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Old 09-29-2019, 11:41 AM   #42
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I feel bad I didn't have time to listen and vote this time. I didn't even vote for my own.
Same 😬
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Old 09-29-2019, 02:32 PM   #43
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I listened through all the submissions and chose not to vote because I couldn't find enough variation in them to narrow down to 3, let alone rank them...I think the tracks were so strong they didn't really need a huge amount of processing to get a good sounding result...

I'm very grateful to whoever gave me a second-place vote...at least this time I don't think the drums got crushed by the limiter, but I totally screwed up the mix trying to apply saturation as a means to control dynamics...

But I did learn a lot...again...
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:55 PM   #44
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Hey folks,

I feel that I am a bit new here...but since this is a feedback-based reward system I figure it's time to start doing my part. As primarily a live sound engineer, I may have a bit different take on things, and admittedly I'm a bit direct. So I apologize in advance if my comments seem harsh or hurtful that is NOT the intent!

So here we go...as someone who has worked with horns extensively one common seemed to be that the horns lacked space/verb, the mixes were almost all questionable (including mine) with regard to balance and tone. A lot lacked dynamics as well, possibly compression-based?

1) Horns need space/verb, Kick too dull/flat sounding, nice cymbal sound and balance.

2) Kick too low, Horns need space/verb and missing dynamics, nice snare sound & attack, good cymbal sound and balance.

3) My #3. Nice kick & snare, nice space around vocals & doubling sounds great, great bass sound & balance, horns sound dry, need space & dynamics but balanced well with excellent low end.

4) Horns need space, no dynamics, and a bit low...could benefit from automation? Great tone on keys but a bit low at time - also possibly could use automation? Nice guitar sound and fx. Good drum sound, kick maybe a bit low at time but nice snare sound and space/verb. Cymbals sit nicely in the mix & sound great! Vocal verb and doubling sound good.

5) My #2. Horns have nice space & balance but could use more low from the bone. Kick sound a bit flat but still has decent attack...EQ? Snare sounds nice w/a decent verb but maybe could use a bit more space? Vocal could use some space/verb sounds a bit dry.

6) Nice keys tone and balance. Vocal sounds good but could use some space/verb. Drums nicely balanced w/good snare, kick a bit dull on low end but has nice attack. Horns again a bit dry, could use more low end on bone and a bit more bone.

7) Vocal sounds a bit dry, could use some space/verb. Great guitar sound. Horns sound dry/flat, need space and dynamics sounds over-compressed and not enough low end on the bone or enough of the bone. Drums balanced well but lack dynamics & space/verb.

8) Horns sound thin & flat, need space/verb, lack dynamics. Vocal could use space/verb. Drums sound thin and missing low end. Bass could use some saturation and presence but nicely balanced. Keys a bit low.
9) Horns have nice space and dynamics, could use more bone and maybe more lows on bone. Vocal has nice space and sound. Nice drum sound but snare could use a bit more space/verb. Keys a bit low in spots perhaps a bit of automation needed here?
10) Horns sound flat, no dynamics and mix is off, could use more trumpet with more highs on trumpet and the sax is getting lost. Vocal needs space, sounds dry. Whole mix sounds very mid-heavy w/o much low end or top end. Drums sound over-compressed and lack attack/snap, need space/verb.
11) Nice horns, decent space, balance and dynamics. Nice space around vocals, verb and delay sound nice. Nice drum sound, kick full w/nice attack, snare has nice space and attack. However, the cymbals are almost absent from the mix. Bass balanced nicely but could use more presence and attack, eq in a bit of 1k and 2k with a very narrow Q (bandwidth).
12) Nice drums, snare cuts nicely and nice space. Kick has good tone, balance and attack. Vocal has nice space w/good verb and delay/doubling. Horns sound dry, no space/verb, sounding dull (eq), no dynamics but balanced well.
13) Horns sound nice, good space and dynamics, could use a bit more bone and more low-end on the bone. Vocal has nice space, maybe a bit too much echo though the effect sounds nice, might need to dial it back a few dB though. Kick a bit low and clicky (too much transient controller?) and more low end on Kick (60-80Hz wide Q bump up by +3 dB or more. Keys sound nice but maybe a bit loud in spots (possibly a bit of automation would be the ticket here).
14) Horns sound dry, need more space/verb. Vocal sounds dry, needs more space/verb. Drums sound nice, kick level good, but maybe could us a bit more attack. Nice space/verb on snare. Nice bass sound and balance. Good guitar sound and balance.
15) Nice space/verb on horns, not enough high end, could use more trumpet. Too much verb on keys, they are getting washed out in the mix and sound flat/dull. Drums too low and flat sounding, possibly over-compressed. Good bass mix but tone is all low-end, lacking dynamics (presence and attack), possibly a bump of EQ with a narrow Q around 1k and 2k? Vocal has good delay/doubling but could use more space/verb.
16) Horns sound dry, need space/verb and could use more bone and low-end on bone, also need high end on trumpet and a bit more trumpet. Vocal has good delay/doubling but could use a bit more space/verb. Sounds like its low-passed @ 5K though doesnít seem to have much high-end definition.
17) Horns sound dry, need space/verb but balanced nicely with great tone! Vocal sounds a bit dry, needs space/verb and delay. Bass a bit low and undefined, needs presence and attack, perhaps an EQ bump with a tight Q around 1k and 2k? Drums balanced well, good kick and snare sound. Good guitar sound. Keys a bit too low in spots, could use a bit of automation, lacking high-end.

Thatís it for this month. Overall a pretty close race. I had trouble deciding which ones were my favorites. I had a great time mixing this song. I hope that my comments were easily understandable and not hurtful in any way. Looking forward to reading everyone elseís reviews as well! In most cases I didnít make observations on the mixes as a whole. I concentrated on the individual elements. So hopefully together with the other comments and reviews this month will prove fruitful for us all!
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:02 AM   #45
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Great song this month. Lots of dynamic movement and contrast made for an interesting challenge for sure.

1. Really nice overall balance. Bass is solid, warm and present. Pleasantly punchy drums; kick perhaps a bit strong on the lows. Maybe could have a slight midrange bump on the instruments. The delay on the guitar is a bit distracting for me. Was my #2

2. Snare could do with some top end snap. Bass has a nice roundness to it but it dominates the mixódrums could have more thump and air, and other instruments could do with a bit of a volume boost. Vox feels a bit wooly.

3. Kick comes on a bit too strong, with a crunch to it. Percussion top could be sparklier. Vox has a lot of low end. Reverb is too big sounding, when the song suits a more intimate ambience. Guitar could do with a bit more volume. If you shelf down some lows and boost top itís a decent balance.

4. Vox has too much energy in the honk area. Its reverb really emphasises this midrange prominence. Everything else is somewhat drier and more neutral sounding. To that effect, its juxtaposition with the vox throws off the sense of cohesion of the environment for me.

5. Punchy mixómaybe a bit too punchy but does feel cohesive in its direction. Top end has an artificial edge to it, might be some track bleed interaction? Bass could do with more low-mids for roundness. Vox a bit dry and could do with a midrange dip too. Was my #1

6. This one is hard for me to put a finger on, because the mix sounds sort of fine to me, but in a way that lacks a liveliness. A small part of that I think is a low-end emphasis in the kick and snare, which could have a bit more presence smack. Thereís a funny glitch at 2:24.

7. This oneís mine. I think I got pretty close to where I was aiming, though it could do with a touch more low end and a slight presence dip to round it out, as it feels slightly too bright now.

8. Everything sounds too high-passed; thereís a build-up of content in the presence region between 1-5khz making it sound like a small speaker. The guitarís delay timing seems to be timed a bit strangely and thereís too much of it.

9. Quite a nice tonal balance. Not too keen on the panned bass tbh. Same with the off-centre percussion. If youíre going to do it, you need to balance it with enough right channel content. Vox has a slightly nasal quality. Brass phasey delay/verb in the instrumental feels too strong to me.

10. Mix is too midrange-focused, apart from a comparatively thunderous kick. The vox has a boxiness to it, and the reverb is too wet, such that it feels like the band is in another room. Your bass is more high-passed than your brass.

11. A bit of a smile curve to this mix. The low end has too much in the subs but not enough 100-200 to ground the weight with the solidity it needsóinstead it ends up sounding boomy and unfocused. Vox could sit back into the mix a bit. Vox has a funny glitch at 2:40.

12. Pleasantly balanced but has a cavernous reverb that doesnít suit the musical content imo. Voxís top end has an artificial quality to it. Bass has that nice honk to it that gives a tight and dry presentation, but it feels mismatched to your reverb. It also has something funny at 2:24. Was my #3

13. The top end of the drums have too much air and makes the mix feel harsh. The overall mix has a lower-midrange hole that gives a cold and scooped presentation. Brass sounds overly highpassed and with too much reverb. Kick has an inconsistent clickiness to it thatís distracting in the first half.

14. Vox has a boxiness to it. Bass lows are quite strong, but the other instruments donít take enough advantage of the midrange hole it brings. The whole mix could do with a top end bump. Panning of the brass is weird to me, changing positions between different sections.

15. The verb on this is too strong and really doesnít suit the music but itís really coolódark and moody. Your low-frequency region really dominates the mix here. Apart from that, you have something of a roll-off on the top end that dulls everything to much. Iím hearing clipping distortion on some peaks also.

16. Drums and vox could be brought down a bit. Vox has a fair bit of boxinessóa cut at 300Hz cleans up the issue reasonably well. The bass seems very low-passed and ends up sounding like itís underwater. The guitar could do with more low-mids to give it the energy it needs.

17. Decently balanced mix. The vox could do with a bit more clarity, say a little 5kHz bump just to sit over everything else slightly better. The bass Iíd like to hear boosted a touch, and snare could do with a bit more top end crack to match the dry intensity of the other instruments.
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:29 AM   #46
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I was number 5 and Iíll try to leave my feedback as soon as possible. I appreciate that people liked the way I treated the wind instruments. I automated the drums room track to give more a live feel in certain sections where those instruments needed to stand out
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:12 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVinKC View Post
Hey folks,

I feel that I am a bit new here...but since this is a feedback-based reward system I figure it's time to start doing my part. As primarily a live sound engineer, I may have a bit different take on things, and admittedly I'm a bit direct. So I apologize in advance if my comments seem harsh or hurtful that is NOT the intent!

So here we go...as someone who has worked with horns extensively one common seemed to be that the horns lacked space/verb, the mixes were almost all questionable (including mine) with regard to balance and tone. A lot lacked dynamics as well, possibly compression-based?

1) Horns need space/verb, Kick too dull/flat sounding, nice cymbal sound and balance.

2) Kick too low, Horns need space/verb and missing dynamics, nice snare sound & attack, good cymbal sound and balance.

3) My #3. Nice kick & snare, nice space around vocals & doubling sounds great, great bass sound & balance, horns sound dry, need space & dynamics but balanced well with excellent low end.

4) Horns need space, no dynamics, and a bit low...could benefit from automation? Great tone on keys but a bit low at time - also possibly could use automation? Nice guitar sound and fx. Good drum sound, kick maybe a bit low at time but nice snare sound and space/verb. Cymbals sit nicely in the mix & sound great! Vocal verb and doubling sound good.

5) My #2. Horns have nice space & balance but could use more low from the bone. Kick sound a bit flat but still has decent attack...EQ? Snare sounds nice w/a decent verb but maybe could use a bit more space? Vocal could use some space/verb sounds a bit dry.

6) Nice keys tone and balance. Vocal sounds good but could use some space/verb. Drums nicely balanced w/good snare, kick a bit dull on low end but has nice attack. Horns again a bit dry, could use more low end on bone and a bit more bone.

7) Vocal sounds a bit dry, could use some space/verb. Great guitar sound. Horns sound dry/flat, need space and dynamics sounds over-compressed and not enough low end on the bone or enough of the bone. Drums balanced well but lack dynamics & space/verb.

8) Horns sound thin & flat, need space/verb, lack dynamics. Vocal could use space/verb. Drums sound thin and missing low end. Bass could use some saturation and presence but nicely balanced. Keys a bit low.
9) Horns have nice space and dynamics, could use more bone and maybe more lows on bone. Vocal has nice space and sound. Nice drum sound but snare could use a bit more space/verb. Keys a bit low in spots perhaps a bit of automation needed here?
10) Horns sound flat, no dynamics and mix is off, could use more trumpet with more highs on trumpet and the sax is getting lost. Vocal needs space, sounds dry. Whole mix sounds very mid-heavy w/o much low end or top end. Drums sound over-compressed and lack attack/snap, need space/verb.
11) Nice horns, decent space, balance and dynamics. Nice space around vocals, verb and delay sound nice. Nice drum sound, kick full w/nice attack, snare has nice space and attack. However, the cymbals are almost absent from the mix. Bass balanced nicely but could use more presence and attack, eq in a bit of 1k and 2k with a very narrow Q (bandwidth).
12) Nice drums, snare cuts nicely and nice space. Kick has good tone, balance and attack. Vocal has nice space w/good verb and delay/doubling. Horns sound dry, no space/verb, sounding dull (eq), no dynamics but balanced well.
13) Horns sound nice, good space and dynamics, could use a bit more bone and more low-end on the bone. Vocal has nice space, maybe a bit too much echo though the effect sounds nice, might need to dial it back a few dB though. Kick a bit low and clicky (too much transient controller?) and more low end on Kick (60-80Hz wide Q bump up by +3 dB or more. Keys sound nice but maybe a bit loud in spots (possibly a bit of automation would be the ticket here).
14) Horns sound dry, need more space/verb. Vocal sounds dry, needs more space/verb. Drums sound nice, kick level good, but maybe could us a bit more attack. Nice space/verb on snare. Nice bass sound and balance. Good guitar sound and balance.
15) Nice space/verb on horns, not enough high end, could use more trumpet. Too much verb on keys, they are getting washed out in the mix and sound flat/dull. Drums too low and flat sounding, possibly over-compressed. Good bass mix but tone is all low-end, lacking dynamics (presence and attack), possibly a bump of EQ with a narrow Q around 1k and 2k? Vocal has good delay/doubling but could use more space/verb.
16) Horns sound dry, need space/verb and could use more bone and low-end on bone, also need high end on trumpet and a bit more trumpet. Vocal has good delay/doubling but could use a bit more space/verb. Sounds like its low-passed @ 5K though doesnít seem to have much high-end definition.
17) Horns sound dry, need space/verb but balanced nicely with great tone! Vocal sounds a bit dry, needs space/verb and delay. Bass a bit low and undefined, needs presence and attack, perhaps an EQ bump with a tight Q around 1k and 2k? Drums balanced well, good kick and snare sound. Good guitar sound. Keys a bit too low in spots, could use a bit of automation, lacking high-end.

Thatís it for this month. Overall a pretty close race. I had trouble deciding which ones were my favorites. I had a great time mixing this song. I hope that my comments were easily understandable and not hurtful in any way. Looking forward to reading everyone elseís reviews as well! In most cases I didnít make observations on the mixes as a whole. I concentrated on the individual elements. So hopefully together with the other comments and reviews this month will prove fruitful for us all!
got a lot to work on thnks for taking the time that are some close observations
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:00 AM   #48
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I was number 9, and am happy that my mix was positively receivede. Probably more luck than anything else as this was my first time participating. A few thoughts for the other mixers...

One thing I found challenging was getting a clear mix that was 14 LUFS across the entire song. Getting the right level in the beginning gave me a severely squashed, limited mix by the end. Conversely, the right level and compression for the climax made the beginning too quiet. My solution was to boost the vocals in the beginning, and also use a threshold level on the master limiter that increased through the song, to even out the dynamics. I'm curious how others approached this challenge?

I was also surprised at how few people fixed the "glitch" at 4sec. I think it was a guitar mic (or some other mic) that "switched on" giving a sudden increase in ambient level. It bugged me enough to isolate and duck.

Thanks to everyone's comments on the mixes - this is a great resource for learning.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:06 AM   #49
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I usually don't have a lot of problems with getting my mix to -14 LUFS. I don't know if I tend to naturally mix in a way that meets that target or what. Maybe it's because I tend to mix very quietly, I don't know

Interested in hearing other people about this topic.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:28 AM   #50
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I'm curious how others approached this challenge?
Typically when I drag raw tracks into a new session, the first thing I'll tend to do is to pull down the clip gain of everything by -10dB or so and organise tracks/adjust the static mix from there. That usually puts everything at a level where anything on the master won't need to do too much work, as long as I'm careful with the gain-staging so that I don't end up with the dreaded volume creep problem.

For parts needing smooth dynamic control, I've taken a liking to ReaComp in feedback mode with high thresholds and large knee sizes, when I don't want something grabby.

The toughest part of the mix I think was the vocal track. To control its dynamics I chose to do a good bit of volume automation and set up a dynamic EQ to make the tonality more consistent at the same time.

As far as integrated LUFS level goes though, I don't really put much attention to that until very close to the end where it mostly comes down to adjusting a trim slider feeding into the limiter.
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:10 PM   #51
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I was 14, scored low so please take my comments as you want.
I don't feel qualified to offer good advice but I too had big problems getting the -14LUFS. Tried three times to get a good mix but I found it all too dynamic. I didn't want to over compress anything because the live feeling disappeared. I tried the -10dB gain thing Tiny Tortoise suggested but for some reason I ended with a really ugly mix. I restored the item gains and adjusted them carefully against the mixer fader levels. I really tried hard to get a good balance before I moved onto compression. Endless comparison with reference tracks just to get the balance working, yet I ended up with the same crushed ending every time. Fourth time of mixing I did all the same stuff and used Youlean loudness meter as a reference tool for finding peaks. I found the worst/highest peaks and automated volume dips on the worst sounds, sometimes individual tracks and also on the overall mix.
I tried to get my compression softening the peaks without squashing anything. I'm going to use Tiny T's method for non-grabby compression in the future.
By playing between the peaks and the compression I eventually got to a workable level. I have no way of knowing whether this is a legitimate method but it seemed to work for me.
The limiter finished off the refinement to -14LUFS, -1dB peak after all the adjustments to the peaks.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:04 PM   #52
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As I just said, I don't really feel qualified to critique others' work when I'm sitting on the bottom of the table.
Despite that I will post my observations.

I scored 1 as favourite so I feel good I can spot the winner!
7 next and 3 as my third choice.
Also pleased to note that 3 and 7 regularly critique and I'm finding all comments are helping me improve my mixes. Thanks to Tiny Tortoise, Grundton and PVinKC (all in the top ten) so I'm grateful for your help to up my game.
I've parsed all your comments and applied them to my mix and it is already better than my submission. Next time...

My notes on each mix:-
1/ Favourite mix - Instant winner for me. Literally felt I wasn't going to hear better on the day.
2/ Good, bass felt too much and snare hits bit squashed at times.
3/ Third favourite mix - Good, vocal ambience too much for me.
4/ Vocal felt distant and some of the "with the truth" lyrics blasted through in contrast.
5/ Got distracted by hi hats at times, don't know why.
6/ Vocal very clean almost thin but not. Horns nice. Some clicks in the breakdown.
7/ Second favourite mix - Snare tone felt at odds with kick drum tone but really liked the mix balance overall.
8/ I felt like the top end was too much and it distracted me from the quality of the mix.
9/ Balance felt good although the vocal ambience was too much for me.
10/ Felt like I was hearing certain tones resonating too much but I couldn't pin it down to an instrument.
11/ Pretty good apart from the vocal ambience. Wasn't sure if I couldn't hear it spinning off to the left speaker?
12/ The snare sounded boxy (not sure whether I'm thinking of the same boxy range as pros talk about, I'm not skilled/experienced enough) and the sticks section sounded distractingly loud.
13/ Intro could have less noise and the vocal delay was too much for me.
14/ mine, all previous critique points adjusted and now seems like I could definitely get a better mix. Some of my comments (in this post here)about too much ambience show my lack of experience as they asked for more ambience on my horns and vocals.
15/ I liked the horns in this mix, sounded really snappy. Too much verb overall.
16/ Good overall, vocal a little too wet sounding for me.
17/ Good mix generally, cymbals in intro felt a little too much.

Ok, hopefully along with the other critiques these comments will make sense.

Given my feedback about lack of reverb/ambience any of my above comments relating to these effects may seem wrong. Please bear in mind my pre-critique awareness of reasonable settings!!
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:32 AM   #53
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I was number 5. Can you give a bit more information about the hi-hat comment? Was it a frequency thing or what?
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
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I was number 5. Can you give a bit more information about the hi-hat comment? Was it a frequency thing or what?
Certainly try to help, got to say though this was a real nitpicking type issue, your mix was good but this was the only thing that stood out to my ears.

I'm not 100% sure what it is so I'll describe what I hear/think it is.
In the first run (up to about 48 sec mark) it sounds more prominent than when it reappears for the next verse. I still hear the same effect though; I think the song intensity builds and so it becomes less prominent.
It sounds like a slurred effect so the hi hat hit isn't crisp and tight sounding. Like a reverb effect after the hit but one that's got too much high frequency so it extends the note. Gives a "SSHHH" sound and makes the hits seem more prominent because they are audible for an extended period.

Hope that helps, like I said I was really enjoying your mix but as this stood out I wanted to say it.
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