Creating vintage drum room sound

Tubeguy · 12-01-2018, 02:08 AM

I record mostly 60's style Rockabilly. Room sounds play a key role in this style so I utilize my room a lot for acoustics. Think of Sun Records studios. But my room is hardly the Sun and it's difficult to work with.
So I've been looking at alternatives like VST reverbs. I've tried Valhala and some impulses with varying results but think I'm missing the realism. I'm kind of having a hard time judging the reverb unless it's a real room one.
What do you use to get realistic room sound if you don't have a great recording room?

ivansc · 12-01-2018, 03:22 AM

I have stood in the live room at Sun & clapped my hands, etc. No idea where the magc comes from but considering it is just the front end of a glass fronted retail store with pegboard walls and a sawtooth of pegboard "waves" in the ceiling, who knows. Some kinda voodoo at work.

I wonder if anyone has had the nerve to ask if they can do IRs on the place?
I know that the classic slap echo they used was done using a tape recorder rather than all those wild tales about aircraft fuel tanks with mics in one end and speakers in the other.

ChristopherT · 12-01-2018, 03:54 AM

One trick in this scenario is to focus on finding a great sounding sweet spot for one room mic, and send that into a reverb.

Sometimes this can be a mic up against a wall, on the floor in the corner, in a closet with a door ajar, stairwell, storage room, up against glass.

Search out that sweet roomy spot, and send it to a reverb.

The other really good trick is to put a stereo pair of close room mics facing the drums about 3 meters away from the kit - but only 30cm from the floor
(to avoid all of the cymbals)
Blend this stereo pair into a stereo reverb and you will have a big smile on your face.

Every engineer walking into a new studio needs to find these sweet spots, and how to capture the "right" room sound for any particular project.
Sometimes you may want a tight small sounding revereb, and other times long, and sometimes none (all on the same album).

Usually the history of the studio, and the many albums recorded prior, the engineers pass on the good micing and baffling positions that have been discovered over the years.

Research Research

Softsynth · 12-01-2018, 05:39 AM

Despite being free try this:
https://u-he.com/products/protoverb/

Spend some time with adjusting the sound. It can do horrible too as it aims to recreate the room sound, warts and all. The Valhalla DSP reverbs are the opposite, they are designed to create an idealized sound, sacrificing some realism for musical pleasure (and also being CPU friendly).

Mix that with this tube delay (or similar):
https://www.softube.com/index.php?id=td

davetbass · 12-01-2018, 11:04 AM

You probably know this stuff since it's your thing, but maybe watching it could spark ideas of how to get close in software:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q-scxybnp0&t=381s

Glennbo · 12-01-2018, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Softsynth

Despite being free try this:
https://u-he.com/products/protoverb/

Interesting that you mention that one. I just got Superior Drummer 2 and all my libraries working in Linux, and u-he has Protoverb for Linux. Initially I wrote that verb off, simply because it looks like a guitar pedal, but while auditioning it on some drums I found that I really like some of the sounds it gets. Here's a sample of Superior Drummer 2 running through it. Granted, Superior has some of it's own room sound, but if I bypass Protoverb they sound almost totally dry.

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/...ongID=13812827

I was also trying out the OverTone FC70 Fairchild 670 emulation, and Pultec EQs for Linux that I just bought as well on this test.

Tubeguy · 12-01-2018, 10:53 PM

Well it looks like there is no easy way out of it, I must admit I thought that would be the case but had to ask anyway. New tips and tricks are always helpful so thanks.
I think my problem is rather low ceiling. Room is pretty big and has another adjoining room which I often use for big "room" sound where I can mic it and partially close the door to get the right effect.
But for small "rooms" the ceiling is a pain to deal with. Someone suggested adding reverb to it, I'll try that, maybe it'll create higher ceiling effect who knows. Reverb is something that is probably impossible to actually measure.
Regarding the Sun Studios, I believe it's the unusual walls/ceiling shape and tiles that gives it that nice soft dispersion. I wonder how they worked it out without computer simulation but than again, back than technology could do all we can do today anyway in most cases , it was just all really big.

Softsynth · 12-03-2018, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Interesting that you mention that one. I just got Superior Drummer 2 and all my libraries working in Linux, and u-he has Protoverb for Linux. Initially I wrote that verb off, simply because it looks like a guitar pedal, but while auditioning it on some drums I found that I really like some of the sounds it gets. Here's a sample of Superior Drummer 2 running through it. Granted, Superior has some of it's own room sound, but if I bypass Protoverb they sound almost totally dry.

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v4/...ongID=13812827

I was also trying out the OverTone FC70 Fairchild 670 emulation, and Pultec EQs for Linux that I just bought as well on this test.

That room sound is very naturalistic/realistic which could suit the O.P's needs. A good example for Tubeguy.

DarrenH · 12-03-2018, 09:00 AM

Might have *a teensy tiny* bit to do with the talent in the room ; )

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivansc

who knows. Some kinda voodoo at work.

foxAsteria · 12-03-2018, 09:58 AM

If you want to completely change the sound of the drums, short reverbs are the way to go, imo. I picked up Abbey Road Chambers from Waves during the sale last week and it's really great for this sort of thing, but if you load up ReaVerb and find some nice IR files of small rooms, you can change the sound very drastically.

Also, ToTape5 from airwindows does a great job of pumping in a vintage sound (free). You can put it on every track for some very nice retro coloration. It does really amazing things to bass and kick as well.

ivansc · 12-03-2018, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenH

Might have *a teensy tiny* bit to do with the talent in the room ; )

Obviously, but there was certainly something special about the room sound just when I clapped my hands.

Which can only make it easier to do a great performance AND for the engineer to capture it.

Tubeguy · 12-11-2018, 05:51 PM

I've spend whole day yesterday trying to recreate this room sound, both guitar and the drums using VST distortions and various reverbs. It's an awesome room sound I'd love to be able to replicate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQwQiRVEklI&t=11s
But no cigar. I get close but it doesn't sound real or should I say natural.
I might need to spend few weeks trying to mic every corner of my place to get this without plugins :-)

foxAsteria · 12-11-2018, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

It's an awesome room sound I'd love to be able to replicate.

I think you could pretty easily get that sound just like you said, but it should only take a few hours in a decently absorbent room, not weeks. You only need one mic and the right spot in the room. Move it around with closed phones while someone plays the drums to find it. Use the same mic position but then move the amp closer than the drums and find its sweet spot in the same way. Then add a bit of period specific degradation and some tape saturuation. ToTape5 from AirWindows is great for vintage sound. Also free.

Retro Audio Enthusiast · 12-02-2018, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

I record mostly 60's style Rockabilly.

...Sun Records studios...

What do you use to get realistic room sound if you don't have a great recording room?

I record Rockabilly too and also classic 50's pop.

Try this Impulse Reverb.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/34948/Sunny%20Room.wav

Not sure of your recording experience so if I state the obvious please forgive me. Load the WAV file into ReaVerb (or your usual impulse response reverb). You might need to EQ lows, depending on the sound. To recreate a 'live' studio room, send everything into the reverb with a generous amount except vocals, add only a little bit to simulate the spill. If the room sounds too boxey/boomy, remove the lows until it doesn't.

Interested if it works for you. Good luck!