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10-17-2019, 09:06 PM
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#241
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo
I don't really try to duplicate anyone else's sound
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Me either. Inevitably what goes in my ears eventually comes out in my playing/recording/mixing in some way, but it runs through my subconscious' grinder along the way hopefully.
Quote:
Something I've noticed over the years is with lots of people's original music they'll have parts playing all the time, never letting up or taking a breath, and it crowds the soundstage so no part can be heard with much detail.
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When I first joined my original band in 2014, the writing and songs were good IMHO, but everyone was always playing every second of every song. Having awareness of the same things you are mentioning, as I was coming up with my parts, I'd purposely lay out in sections here and there while also trying to get the rest of the band to have the lightbulb moment.
Turns out that out of a little over and hour of music, 20 minutes of it, I wasn't playing at all. When I showed them that and asked what it would be like if I suddenly started noodling in those parts, they understood better because they had gotten used to the drop in dynamics and added space in those sections - they were often good at playing in others holes, the problem was they filled every single farking hole. Sometimes an otherwise great sounding part is better served by the mute button.
I've also noticed the weaker something I write/compose is, the more and more tracks I end up recording trying to fix it and more tracks wasn't the answer.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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10-17-2019, 09:49 PM
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#242
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,013
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Rests are a component of well written music and are frequently under used. Music needs contrast. If it's all brightness then all you get a wash of noise.
The sound stage fills up pretty quickly with just a couple guitars, bass and drums. After that it's easy to start stepping on toes.
A writing technique I've used before was to overplay every track intentionally, then like a sculptor, remove the bits that don't make the song.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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10-18-2019, 01:34 AM
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#243
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
One other story. I was working at a studio many many moons ago and some young band came in and used our studio kit. It sounded terrible. Especially the hi-hats.
I turned to the studio owner and said that we really need to replace those hi-hats. They sound like trash cans.
Fast forward two weeks. Bernard Purdie comes to the studio. We're getting sounds and I turn to the studio owner and tell him that I've never heard a better set of hi hats in my life.
He was also using the studio kit.
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Haha!
Damn those talented folks and their ability to destroy the illusion that we can buy our way to greatness!
...or is that bless those talented folks and their ability to destroy the illusion that we need money to be great?
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10-18-2019, 02:20 AM
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#244
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Hi everyone. I read the first page, sorry if anyone has posted this here already.
Regarding the automation before compression makes all very nice and smooth.
"Attacking" a digital compressor these days may have huge impact on the overall mix.
I explain my steps for better compression.
1 - i do automate volume before compressors, especially on vocals;
2- you can use this great script to make everything more natural. ( http://forum.cockos.com/member.php?u=50462);
3- sometimes i use waves vocal Ride and write its own automation to a track;
4- Analog compressors tend to have a bit more "mojo" than digital ones, but there are great ones out there, its up to everyone choosing what fits best.
to make a compressor work on a musical way, CALCULATE its attack and release times according to the music tempo. Its easily achieved by using this formula
60.000 / BPM
e.g ( 60.000/120 = 500ms)
Just apply divisions by pair numbers (if its a 4/4) tempo.
All the best
Last edited by pepe44; 10-18-2019 at 03:01 AM.
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10-18-2019, 02:30 AM
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#245
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
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That just goes to the member profile. Which script do you mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
to make a compressor work on a musical way, CALCULATE its attack and release times according to the music tempo. Its easily achieved by using this formula
60.000 / BPM
e.g ( 60.000/120 = 500ms)
Just apply divisions by pair numbers (if its a 4/4) tempo.
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Maybe that works for some people, but that formula doesn't take the attack and release times of the notes being played, which is more important than tempo when compressing, IMHO.
I don't tend to like "calculated" stuff anyway - I never use tempo sync for delay, for instance, because having it dead on the grid sounds boring to me.
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10-18-2019, 02:58 AM
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#246
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
That just goes to the member profile. Which script do you mean?
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Envelope based compressor, it´s on reapack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Maybe that works for some people, but that formula doesn't take the attack and release times of the notes being played, which is more important than tempo when compressing, IMHO.
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Works great for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I don't tend to like "calculated" stuff anyway - I never use tempo sync for delay, for instance, because having it dead on the grid sounds boring to me.
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Well, dont use it.
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10-18-2019, 04:22 AM
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#247
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
Envelope based compressor, it´s on reapack.
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Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
Works great for me.
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You use the same attack and release settings regardless of if it's a staccato part or a legato part? Floor toms get the same attack and release settings as snare drums?
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10-18-2019, 05:11 AM
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#248
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
You use the same attack and release settings regardless of if it's a staccato part or a legato part? Floor toms get the same attack and release settings as snare drums?
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No , normally i set the attach faster then the release. Half . not always. Depends on the content! And many time i use only hears not this calculation.
Works best with tight tempo stuff, like electronics music and sample based music.
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10-18-2019, 05:30 AM
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#249
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
No , normally i set the attach faster then the release. Half . not always. Depends on the content! And many time i use only hears not this calculation.
Works best with tight tempo stuff, like electronics music and sample based music.
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Sorry, I didn't mean the same attack time as the release time, I meant the same attack and release time (whether different or not) regardless of the part you are compressing. If that makes sense?
So if you have a release time of 200 ms, and have an attack time of 30 ms, those same timings get applied to all parts?
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10-18-2019, 05:57 AM
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#250
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
Sorry, I didn't mean the same attack time as the release time, I meant the same attack and release time (whether different or not) regardless of the part you are compressing. If that makes sense?
So if you have a release time of 200 ms, and have an attack time of 30 ms, those same timings get applied to all parts?
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Sometime i automate the attack and release times for different parts of the song.
Like always, what the music "asks" and suits best.
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10-18-2019, 06:36 AM
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#251
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I don't tend to like "calculated" stuff anyway - I never use tempo sync for delay, for instance, because having it dead on the grid sounds boring to me.
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Amen!
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10-18-2019, 06:48 AM
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#252
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Just sharing my methods, everyone has its own. Hope i could help some of you.
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10-18-2019, 07:26 AM
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#253
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
One other story. I was working at a studio many many moons ago and some young band came in and used our studio kit. It sounded terrible. Especially the hi-hats.
I turned to the studio owner and said that we really need to replace those hi-hats. They sound like trash cans.
Fast forward two weeks. Bernard Purdie comes to the studio. We're getting sounds and I turn to the studio owner and tell him that I've never heard a better set of hi hats in my life.
He was also using the studio kit.
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Thanks for the stories, Kenny! Really entertaining.
(Also when I don't understand something in Reaper, I always head over to your YouTube channel. I've learned so much from your videos. Not just specific techniques, but the principles of Reaper itself. The philosophy of approaching a mix is as important as any one trick. Thanks again!)
__________________
"I've never trusted Klingons and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy."
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10-18-2019, 08:29 AM
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#254
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
Just sharing my methods, everyone has its own. Hope i could help some of you.
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Of course!
I wasn't saying what you are doing is wrong, just giving another point of view.
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10-18-2019, 09:12 AM
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#255
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
It's not gaining any ground when someone uses age as part of the argument. Not trying to be argumentative and make things worse, but it's the wrong path to take. We all get what you care about concerning good music and expense, but getting that across should not come at the expense of this thread.
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I think I understand what you mean.
I wish I'd never even mentioned the brand name thing in the first place, I hate when forum threads get hostile but, being human, it's hard not to reply (and can see now that my comments should have been put better).
Thankfully the thread has continued back to being sensible so hopefully that's the end of it.
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10-18-2019, 11:50 AM
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#256
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
to make a compressor work on a musical way, CALCULATE its attack and release times according to the music tempo. Its easily achieved by using this formula
60.000 / BPM
e.g ( 60.000/120 = 500ms)
Just apply divisions by pair numbers (if its a 4/4) tempo.
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There are also some compressors which allow input of BPM and "units" (1/4, 1/8, etc.) for attack and release times such as "w_comp_bpm" and "w_comp_bpm_2" in this package:
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/25168/js_plugins.zip
Just in case anyone here wants a nice compressor, for free, which does this easily.
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10-18-2019, 01:06 PM
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#257
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Much appreciated james
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10-18-2019, 01:45 PM
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#258
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters
There are also some compressors which allow input of BPM and "units" (1/4, 1/8, etc.) for attack and release times such as "w_comp_bpm" and "w_comp_bpm_2" in this package:
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/25168/js_plugins.zip
Just in case anyone here wants a nice compressor, for free, which does this easily.
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That sounds an interesting concept.
I wonder how it would compare to a normal automatic release on a compressor (when set to the timing that the part actually is).
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10-18-2019, 03:15 PM
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#259
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk1701
Thanks for the stories, Kenny! Really entertaining.
(Also when I don't understand something in Reaper, I always head over to your YouTube channel. I've learned so much from your videos. Not just specific techniques, but the principles of Reaper itself. The philosophy of approaching a mix is as important as any one trick. Thanks again!)
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Thank you
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