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Old 06-24-2019, 02:23 PM   #1
serr
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Default 3D audio formats: Atmos, Aura, DTS-X - Any examples to lure me in?

I'm interested.

I mean, the only thing better than more channels is even more channels!

I want to be positive about this. I need some kind of example to lure me in though.

I need to find some title to filch somewhere that has all the discrete channels available. (So... need to get setup with the decoder codec.)
Not just something with some polite wiggles and warbles and ambience either. (Hmmm... Wonder what the Flaming Lips guys are up to these days.)
Then it has to be alluring enough to make me hang speakers from the ceiling and all that to hear the full mix in 3D from 60 some speakers. (I'd be soloing sets of channels on a 5.1 array initially.)
The encoder and decoder codecs have to be reasonably available. I don't just expect freeware (but would appreciate it!) but if this is another $12,000 software suite thing... you know where to shove that.
I'd need to be taken in enough to want to mix in the format. (I'll be easiest to sell on this one. I already think that sounds like fun in fact!)
I'd be nice to know that maybe 5 or 6 people might ever hear any mix I make in the full format.
Right now maybe dozens of people have heard some of my surround mixes. And that's OK. I have dozens of clients. Maybe 4 or 5 of them have actually ever requested surround mixes to begin with. Pretty small time here!

I've heard comments like Atmos will only be making a reduced version available to consumers. Don't like the sound of that! (My knee jerk reaction when someone dangles something in front of me and then says "No, only I get this one! YOU can have this lesser version.")

My blunt concern is seeing this advertised with "Atmos" as a buzzword with shitbar fake speakers in Worst Purchase.
Yeah... Market this to people that can't even listen to stereo properly (because of the shitbar).
Makes me think this whole format will devolve into a movie soundtrack format and only have the occasional audio mix. And that with just a lot of ambient wiggles.


With that rant out of the way...
What software is available that has the encoder and decoder codecs? (For any of the 3 formats.)
Any recommendations for a mix that will lure me in? (Something wild. See above rant.)

Just to be clear, all the stuff where things scale down for lesser speaker arrays (even just basic 5.1) is all well and good! However, for a demo for myself, I kind of need to start with a full 60 something channel mix that's fully discrete and be able to decode it to discrete wav files.

Thanks!
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:48 PM   #2
DVDdoug
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Quote:
but if this is another $12,000 software suite thing... you know where to shove that.
I don't know anything about it but the Dolby Atmos Production Suite is $300 USD.


You may need Pro Tools or Nuendo

Quote:
Then it has to be alluring enough to make me hang speakers from the ceiling and all that to hear the full mix in 3D from 60 some speakers.
That probably costs $12,000, plus whatever hardware you need to decode it, plus 60 miles of wire!
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:09 PM   #3
serr
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Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
I don't know anything about it but the Dolby Atmos Production Suite is $300 USD.
OK, maybe I'm listening again.


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Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
You may need Pro Tools or Nuendo
How would they restrict it to only work in those DAW apps?
(I fired Protools HD when I upgraded to Reaper. And for good reason!)
I actually still have a HD2 system in a dual core G5 with v7 and v8. Should have tried to sell it when it was still worth something. Kinda blew it there!

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Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
That probably costs $12,000, plus whatever hardware you need to decode it, plus 60 miles of wire!
Well shit, you're not wrong there!
But that kind of illustrates my point. It WOULD be silly expensive to make a setup like this. Full blown outrageous in fact! Which is why something has to impress me first.

I really need to hear the raw channels of someone's wild 3D mix that I can solo different groups of. Then it needs to hit some nerve where insanity takes control.

Meanwhile, I'm sure I have plenty of room to improve my 2.0 and 5.1 mixes with current equipment here.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:20 PM   #4
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Try the ambisonics sub forum? In that regard, you mix for as many speakers as you want and it can fold down to anything, including binaural - but it can/will get complicated quickly. That said, I use Ambix 4-channel 3D audio since my 360 video camera records in it by default and I have a Zoom H3-VR ambisonic recorder.

My take on it... For 360 video, no one really cares to have to move/look around the space themselves. The really big thing now is doing that for the user which I did an extreme version of here - extreme meaning I spent most of the time geeking out on the effect rather than pointing the viewers eyes for them in an expected space, but nevertheless that's where things are going video wise - I added video to the equation because that's where lots of 360/3D audio lives right now. Back to audio...

Look into ambisonics as it seems to be where things are headed. Waves has a suite for this FWIW.
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Old 06-24-2019, 03:58 PM   #5
serr
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We're really in a format kerfuffle right now with surround apparently.

There's standard 5.1 (which evolved from 4.0 which is still compatible on a 5.1 array - those channels are used the same way).

Then there's this ambisonic rivalry on the scene now.

The scaling to different speaker arrays (including binaural) as well as to be expected is a great idea. Even if it ruins a few mixes scaling down... it still sounds like a great idea!

Everything commercial in my collection is 5.1, 5.0, 4.1, or 4.0. So... basically 5.1 system oriented. There's a decent amount of released music out there. Never enough but still thousands of titles. And sure, some mixes are treated like a novelty and pale next to the stereo mix, but there's full blown stuff that can only be appreciated in surround too. Not just Pink Floyd albums and concerts!


How many ambisonic album releases are there now? Is someone intending for this to take over and replace standard 5.1?

Sorry... I need to google that for myself.

Now we have 3 new players on the scene apparently with the 3D formats.


I still need to start with a multichannel mix I can preview and take apart (meaning preview groups of a silly number of channels on a 5.1 array).


The other thing with mixes...

Everyone still does old school tricks. Like centering a kick drum in the front stereo pair to couple the speakers for better bass handling. Keeping some mix elements discretely in a single channel for clarity. That kind of stuff.
5.1 falls right into line with all this.

Where is ambisonic on that? Is that a fair question?
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:01 PM   #6
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IIUC when mixing in ambisonics, you can just fold to 5.1, 7.1, binaurl, stereo, whatever. It sort of doesn't know or care what the final output will be (you decide) and that is the beauty of it, again IIUC and could be missing some details.

Knowing what I think I know you like, I'd be surprised if you didn't get addicted to it.

Quote:
Ambisonics does not send audio signal to any particular number of speakers; it is “speaker-agnostic.” Instead, Ambisonics can be decoded to any speaker array (more on which below). Ambisonic audio represents a full, uninterrupted sphere of sound, without being restricted by the limitations of any specific playback system.

https://www.waves.com/ambisonics-exp...ound-engineers
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