Old 11-20-2009, 09:39 AM   #41
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Amplitube: Jimi Hendrix edition. This has been a godsend for me (I have a PRS CU22.)

The Marshall Plexi + the Gibson Maestro Fuzz = creamy sustain for days. I was playing with a custom patch of Maestro + Plexi + 'studio reverb' and my wife stopped in her tracks and said, 'that sounds amazing.' She usually tunes me out ;-)
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by intrsoul View Post
Amplitube: Jimi Hendrix edition. This has been a godsend for me (I have a PRS CU22.)

The Marshall Plexi + the Gibson Maestro Fuzz = creamy sustain for days. I was playing with a custom patch of Maestro + Plexi + 'studio reverb' and my wife stopped in her tracks and said, 'that sounds amazing.' She usually tunes me out ;-)


Intrsoul what is your opinion of the free amp sims out there and how do you think they compare to the amplitude hendrix edition ?

sg
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:16 PM   #43
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Intrsoul what is your opinion of the free amp sims out there and how do you think they compare to the amplitude hendrix edition ?

sg
Ah pardon me, missed the part about "FREE" plugins.

I did have some fun with Reaper's built-in amp plugin. I used the Marshall impulse response with a bunch of EQ. Not very versatile, but I got it pretty big sounding.

Not to sound like an Amplitube spokesperson, but the difference lies in the fact they model each component of the amp (down to the resistor, I'm told) instead of using IR's. This explains how the models are convincing at all dynamic levels - even when rolling your volume/tone back on the guitar.

Amplitube Live is only $99, but I'd suggest combing eBay for a second-hand license of AT:Hendrix. It has all the classic amps like a Bassman and pedals like the Fuzz Face and even a Leslie simulation! Woman tone for days my friends.

With a quality guitar like a PRS or SG, make sure you have a proper 'instrument level' input on your interface or get a guitar direct box. It makes all the difference in the world as far as dynamics go. As others have said here, the simulation is only as good as the guitar signal going in.

Hope that helps,
B
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:42 PM   #44
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I would think the ease of getting a santana type tone is one of the complaints that are usually leveled against amp sims. His tone is very static. Using an adaptive compressor like major tom in front of some of the free amp sims using a neck pickup should get you pretty close, pretty fast.

One of the things you might be finding gross is the wet blanket over the speaker sound on so many of these sims. I have found better results by drawing out the curve of a speaker in reafir, runing a sweep of it and then running that in ReaVerb as an impulse
How are you "running a sweep"? Have to admit, I don't know how to create an impulse in this way.
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:11 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Tedwood View Post
I couldn't find a well enough recorded Woman tone anywhere, but I saw Cream and Blind Faith when I was a bit younger.

Anyhoo, this is how I remember Woman Tone from those hazy days

http://www.box.net/shared/btxbz1sz5y

I used a Tokai Love Rock with the neck pup up full with the tone rolled right off, and the bridge pup volume on about 8 with the treble up. that's how Clapton is said to have done it with his SG

You need ABG's Series 60, and Guitar hacks Edge 45 Impulse.

Here's the chain

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/242822/Woman-Tone.rar

Thanks for asking cos this is really the epitome of creamy (pun intended)
These are VERY close, but I do agree that it's a tiny bit more buzzy than I hear in the tracks. Most noticeable on the low notes...here's the best example I could find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMIUt42OCbc&feature=fvw
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Old 11-21-2009, 06:22 AM   #46
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These are VERY close, but I do agree that it's a tiny bit more buzzy than I hear in the tracks. Most noticeable on the low notes...here's the best example I could find:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMIUt42OCbc&feature=fvw
While I admit it's not the same as an SG being played through a loud Marshall amp full up I never made any pretense that it was.

What it is, is a very usable alternative to having the real thing, you can of course tailor it to suit. It's easy to make it cleaner or grittier, fine tune, or even course tune the tone, and as I have said many times I think you will find the buzzing blends into the background and helps to define the sound when you put it amongst drums bass and cymbals.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:05 PM   #47
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Having given a few free amp sims a going over this weekend I noticed the lack of touch sensitivity I have with my bassman.
The ability to go from clean to over-driven by varying the pick attack.

Anyone else notice this ?
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Old 11-22-2009, 11:59 PM   #48
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Which sims? Its been a while since i have played with them, but I believe you should be able to get that with the Series 60 or C15..I think...Unless I am thinking of our ISX or Catharsis..Both being released very soon..
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:54 PM   #49
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If you've been using Tedwoods fine fx chains, you might want to be careful about input levels into the compressor.

If you're a bit hot coming in, you might not get much effect from varying pick attack. On the plus side, you get plenty of sustain, though!

I always find it a bit of a tweaking game to get that balance right. There are a few extra parameters than you find on your average amp, which can be frustrating when it's not happening. The big advantage is that you can save your settings every time you stumble over a combination that works, and not just the settings, but the music it works with as well.

For me, that's the big carrot that has drawn me away from the stompbox/amp "does my delay sound better before or after the Big Muff?" game.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:47 AM   #50
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Which sims? Its been a while since i have played with them, but I believe you should be able to get that with the Series 60 or C15..I think...Unless I am thinking of our ISX or Catharsis..Both being released very soon..
KM

Sorry Ken I don't recall which ones I used. I have quite a few. I was trying to hit that cleanish sustain in Comfortably Numb or Europa and noticed with the drive up they didn't clean up well when I backed off the pick attack.

Btw, your Series60 according to your web site is for "Death Metal" and the C15 "don't play Jazz, or even classic rock" so I don't believe the clean sustain of David Gilmour would be easily attainable with them.

What type of amps will the ISX and Catharsis be ? I'll look forward to checking them out. Thank you for your response.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:57 AM   #51
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If you've been using Tedwoods fine fx chains, you might want to be careful about input levels into the compressor.

If you're a bit hot coming in, you might not get much effect from varying pick attack. On the plus side, you get plenty of sustain, though!

Hi Toft. Yes I agree, I usually don't go over 6-8 on the guitar and roll off the highs somewhat when I play. I guess it's just very subjective, I can't seem to get a very usable tone out of amp sims.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:27 AM   #52
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just to say that I had some joy placing the free antress's analoguer (tape sim kind of) plugin at the end of a tedwood 'blackface' tweaked chain, adjusting the input compressor level to avoid 'growl' and the analouguer at the end - it smoothed that annoying ampsim 'buzz/fuzziness' amazingly and it sounded alot nicer to me.

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone else like the effect it has on the sound. just stick it pre-reverb at end of a chain set to get the 'light rings' lighting up a bit and see what you think. please try!

should have done a clip but dubious technical ability on eguitar and a lame instrument may not be best example.


tra
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:47 PM   #53
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PRS, Yes those heads are all part of the preampus Metal Line, but, some of the guys that ask specifically fr clean-ish types of tones, Ted Wood, Smudge, Happy Monkey all use these metal heads for their clean-ish tones...Thats why I mentioned them..

IMO... What I would use for that tone you speak of...For cleanish Gilmore sustain, I would try the Mister Tater head, Dick Head, Knuckle head, or the Tamla Head..But I would also use the Built in , Rangemaster(we call it Treble Master) to drive them and lay off their gain knobs, instead drive them externally..with the treble master..
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:25 PM   #54
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just to say that I had some joy placing the free antress's analoguer (tape sim kind of) plugin at the end of a tedwood 'blackface' tweaked chain, adjusting the input compressor level to avoid 'growl' and the analouguer at the end - it smoothed that annoying ampsim 'buzz/fuzziness' amazingly and it sounded alot nicer to me.

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone else like the effect it has on the sound. just stick it pre-reverb at end of a chain set to get the 'light rings' lighting up a bit and see what you think. please try!

should have done a clip but dubious technical ability on eguitar and a lame instrument may not be best example.


tra

Thanks I'll definitely give it a try. Actually I'm D/L it right now.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:39 PM   #55
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PRS, Yes those heads are all part of the preampus Metal Line, but, some of the guys that ask specifically fr clean-ish types of tones, Ted Wood, Smudge, Happy Monkey all use these metal heads for their clean-ish tones...Thats why I mentioned them..

IMO... What I would use for that tone you speak of...For cleanish Gilmore sustain, I would try the Mister Tater head, Dick Head, Knuckle head, or the Tamla Head..But I would also use the Built in , Rangemaster(we call it Treble Master) to drive them and lay off their gain knobs, instead drive them externally..with the treble master..
KM

Thank you Ken, I'll give them a go. And thanks for the tip of driving them externally. Haven't tried that yet.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:34 AM   #56
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I would never dare to make the statement that: ampsims can't do this, or: the free sims can't make this.
I mean it would take me a whole lot of time to try out every possibility with an amp sim. And if you put something in front of it, to boast or tame it, or an impulse behind it ( and there are a few to try out to say the least), when can you say that you have tried the amp sim to its full potential?
And maby it's just me, but also the reverb, delay or something like this in the end will have a great influens on how a amp sim chain respond to dynamics and, of extremely great importance for me, vibrato. A spatial effect can really bring the sound of your fingers forward IMHO.

(And of course you should never say anything before you have tried out the TedWood stuff.)

Harmony
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:04 AM   #57
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Thanks for the props there Lade. Of course other people are quite capable of making good chains too - I've heard them, but I may be the only one that has made a bunch of them available on a web site specifically so that others can learn how they work and how to make their own, all I am offering really is a short-cut.

Your point is a good one though, and I haven't tried everything yet. The clean to distorted breakup by pick attack is a hard one, and if I had a good one of these it would only work for someone else if they have the same input level.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:40 AM   #58
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There are a bunch of new clean tones on my Tone Factory for you to try

Alright Now – Paul Kossoff
Woman Tone – Clapton (Cream era)
Santana-ish – It’s kinda close
Crunchy Funk – for cool rhythm chops
AC30 clean – Like it says on the tin
Plex - A clean Plexy tone
Hot Tex – Jimi – A hotter Plexy tone

Still haven't done a Gilmore one yet - but I will do
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:13 AM   #59
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Ted I have your Custom Series 60 coming this week I think, You can make it available from your tone factory if you like. It was you, smudge, and Happy monkey that have been asking for a cleaner Series 60 for quite some time, I just could not get to it, so, G-SPOT now has the FINAL Tag and is in RC series 1 so, nothing new to be added to it, its done!! Just testing fixing, and making presets..As such I can move on to other stuff..

Anyways I thought you'd like to hear that I am finally getting around to your head...But how much less gain are we talking, and please send me a final set of requests for it..

Thanks,
KM
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:06 AM   #60
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Ted I have your Custom Series 60 coming this week I think, You can make it available from your tone factory if you like. It was you, smudge, and Happy monkey that have been asking for a cleaner Series 60 for quite some time, I just could not get to it, so, G-SPOT now has the FINAL Tag and is in RC series 1 so, nothing new to be added to it, its done!! Just testing fixing, and making presets..As such I can move on to other stuff..

Anyways I thought you'd like to hear that I am finally getting around to your head...But how much less gain are we talking, and please send me a final set of requests for it..

Thanks,
KM

Hey Ken.... That Custom 60 sounds cool - can you also send it to me when it's ready? I'd love to try it.

Just so you know, I'm still getting plenty of mileage out of the the standard 60 (even though the DC offset issue is still bugging me...). I've stumbled upon a really great blues tone with the drive amp turned off and using an amazing Plexi IR that I found somewhere... Proof again that impulses can make or break a sim.

As far as final requests for the Custom 60 (if I can suggest any...), maybe 1/4 of the current drive spread out over the entire span of the knob would be good. I used to want it cleaner than that, but I'm finding that if the sounds are TOO clean they just get lost in the mix. A little bite or grit is good for making them pop.

Also, can't wait to get my hands on G-Spot (no pun intended...) so I can start spending even less time making actual music

Thanks,
hm
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:49 AM   #61
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Wow!

Fantastic news Ken. The Series 60 just oozes tone. Now it will be easier to dial just the right amount of gain

I agree with HM - about 25% of the travel of the gain knob is enough to spread the whole range from clean through to dirty.

Thanks for doing this, I am more than happy to make it available for others on the Tone Factory, and I will of course build a whole load of tones to go with it.

I always thought this was the one for the much sought after Gilmore tone
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:55 AM   #62
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Tedwood / tone experts:
am very interested to know your thoughts on this - as i thought it did a good job de-fuzzing things - would like to know if my ears need syringing!
taa
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
just to say that I had some joy placing the free antress's analoguer (tape sim kind of) plugin at the end of a tedwood 'blackface' tweaked chain, adjusting the input compressor level to avoid 'growl' and the analouguer at the end - it smoothed that annoying ampsim 'buzz/fuzziness' amazingly and it sounded alot nicer to me.

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone else like the effect it has on the sound. just stick it pre-reverb at end of a chain set to get the 'light rings' lighting up a bit and see what you think. please try!


tra
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:11 AM   #63
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Default Series 60

I'm using series 60 and lecab with Marshall Plexi SM67 IR for my clean tones, with a little compressing (2:1) at the end of the chain using Kjaershusaudio Classic Compress. Sometimes i put a classic chorus too, just to spread the signal ... I'm really enjoying it!

PS: Sorry for my poor English ...
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:39 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Lade View Post
...I mean it would take me a whole lot of time to try out every possibility with an amp sim. And if you put something in front of it, to boast or tame it, or an impulse behind it ( and there are a few to try out to say the least), when can you say that you have tried the amp sim to its full potential?

Harmony
Lade
Well, define "full potential".

My experience has been that I can tell if a sim is going to work for me in 20 minutes or less. If the basic tone isn't there it doesn't matter what you do - you can't polish a turd.

Now having said that, there are a couple of sims that I have passed on before that I found a use for later on when my head and ears were in a different place. Context is everything. What sounds like shit in isolation may be exactly what the mix calls for. YMMV.

Also, cab impulses are everywhere these days - free and commercial - but I've only found about 10 that I have any use for. That includes all of the free ones posted at GAM, all of the Recabinet ones, the ones released with ABG & LePou's sims, and any that I've found scattered all over the net. 10. Maybe less. And the 10 that work for me probably wouldn't work for you or anyone else for that matter.

A compressor before most sims is essential for getting the most out of them IMO, but there are a ton of those too - some add color and some don't. Color is neither a good thing or a bad thing - it all depends on the tone you're looking for.

Finally, 95% (probably more) of tone comes from your hands, fingers, the way you hold/use a pick, etc... I've been playing for 25 years and no matter what guitars I've used, amps I've played through, or effects I've dumped on the result - it always sounds like me.....


hm
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:46 AM   #65
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Tedwood / tone experts:
am very interested to know your thoughts on this - as i thought it did a good job de-fuzzing things - would like to know if my ears need syringing!
taa
Hmm.... interesting BenK

I can see how a tape sat type plug could be used to add a softer distortion, such as happens in the power stage of a loud tube amp. I had pondered this once or twice but never got round to trying it.

I'll try it out.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:01 PM   #66
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Just to add here's a couple of more tones just using Reaper's native VSTs that anyone reading the thread may find useful,

http://www.box.net/shared/juxmzbmb6h

and a demo.2nd part just Rhythm so you can hear the cleaner Guitar better.

http://www.box.net/shared/hn7uh0lllz

No double tracking was used.Stereo spread was from using the Native Dual amp with two different speakers on a mono DI tracks.

I'm sure adding some of the previously mentioned VSTs/cabs some decent different tones could be made
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:43 PM   #67
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I would never dare to make the statement that: ampsims can't do this, or: the free sims can't make this.

Lade


Well, suffice it to say not everyone is going to agree on musical preference. You'll have to get over that. If I need to spend that much time on something I know it's not what I'm looking for.

I stated that the amp sims I've heard were better suited for metal, and not for the cleaner sustaining overdriven tones of David Gilmour, Santana or Brian May. That is my opinion. However it does not mean I don't appreciate or respect the excellent work and effort - all free of charge - of those involved, such as Ken and Tedwood. Or that with time, Sims in the future won't get there.

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Old 11-25-2009, 02:52 PM   #68
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Ted I have your Custom Series 60 coming this week I think, You can make it available from your tone factory if you like. It was you, smudge, and Happy monkey that have been asking for a cleaner Series 60 for quite some time, I just could not get to it, so, G-SPOT now has the FINAL Tag and is in RC series 1 so, nothing new to be added to it, its done!! Just testing fixing, and making presets..As such I can move on to other stuff..

Anyways I thought you'd like to hear that I am finally getting around to your head...But how much less gain are we talking, and please send me a final set of requests for it..

Thanks,
KM

That's excellent news Ken !

Sounds exactly like what I've been looking for. I'll look forward to working with it.

PRS
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:43 PM   #69
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If I need to spend that much time on something I know it's not what I'm looking for.

PRS
That I can fully understand.

Happy Monkey wrote
"My experience has been that I can tell if a sim is going to work for me in 20 minutes or less. If the basic tone isn't there it doesn't matter what you do - you can't polish a turd."

I'm a by far slower learner than you. And once I decide an amp sim rocks, it wont do nothing at all for me the next week and vice versa. Just like the real amps I've got.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:39 PM   #70
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If I need to spend that much time on something I know it's not what I'm looking for.
I don't know how you are going to find what you are looking for then PRS. You have dismissed a lot of things without exploring very far. To think there is a ready made "amp sim" that will make you sound like Brian May, Dave Gilmore or Carlos Santana is wishful thinking in the highest degree

There are too many variables to think about, but you say if you have to spend much time working on it it's not what you want.

So let me do the sums here, you want something that sounds like those players without any work. Time for a wake up call!

There are two way I know of.

a) You own the requisite guitars and amps, and you have the recording space and microphones to make them sound authentic, plus you can actually play in the style of those players so that all the expense is not wasted.

b) Be very specific about what you are looking for in an amp sim and go about it in a methodical fashion, and be prepared to put yourself out a bit.
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:01 AM   #71
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Tedwood, thanks for posting your new set of fx chains. Could you please tell me which IR you used for "Clean 1"?

It looks like one of the ReCabinet ones by the name, but they don't mention which cab in the filename. At a wild guess could it be the Tweed 1x12?

I think all the others are Boogex ones.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:43 AM   #72
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OK How about this guys...A variable adjust gain on the new Series 60 which will be called something else. That way you can actually set the amount of gain yourself..

Whats the saying...Give a man a fish and he learns to play guitar, give a man a guitar and he goes fishing?

Hmm..that don't sound right..
KM
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:42 PM   #73
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Tedwood, thanks for posting your new set of fx chains. Could you please tell me which IR you used for "Clean 1"?

It looks like one of the ReCabinet ones by the name, but they don't mention which cab in the filename. At a wild guess could it be the Tweed 1x12?

I think all the others are Boogex ones.
Sorry, I don't understand - There is no Clean 1 in the new pack, and all the tones there are using Boogex Internal Ir's.

I have updated the pack with the later version of the TSE X30 for those of you that could not find it, and the Hot Tex is now not as hot as it was.

It's the same link on my Tone factory.


Ken, I don't really mind how you do it, but had thought originally that a switch/button would be the simple way. Just let it cut the gain to 25% of the original - no?
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Old 11-26-2009, 03:23 PM   #74
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Oops, looks like a stray chain got into my collection of yours. Sorry about that. I really need to spend some time sorting out all the junk in my Reaper folders. Too many IRs, too many samples.

FWIW I have been having a blast with your Woman Tone. Who knew there was actually a use for turning the treble to zero on a guitar. I sure don't play like Eric, but I sound good enough to feel like him!
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:06 PM   #75
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I don't know how you are going to find what you are looking for then PRS. You have dismissed a lot of things without exploring very far. To think there is a ready made "amp sim" that will make you sound like Brian May, Dave Gilmore or Carlos Santana is wishful thinking in the highest degree

There are too many variables to think about, but you say if you have to spend much time working on it it's not what you want.

So let me do the sums here, you want something that sounds like those players without any work. Time for a wake up call!

There are two way I know of.

a) You own the requisite guitars and amps, and you have the recording space and microphones to make them sound authentic, plus you can actually play in the style of those players so that all the expense is not wasted.

b) Be very specific about what you are looking for in an amp sim and go about it in a methodical fashion, and be prepared to put yourself out a bit.



I've played many years and haven't had a problem yet. If I'm looking for clean sustain I'll usually walk over to a Fender. Instead of wasting hours tweaking down a gritty high gain Marshall. But that's just me.
Now here's a wake up call for you. There are far more ways of getting a solid tone down than your over simplified a and b. Believe it or not, guitarists recorded music well before the advent of computers.

PRS


Btw, when the designers decide to release a Vintage Fender/Boogie style Amp Sim I'll be there.
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:21 PM   #76
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Maybe they're well known...

Anyway, with the electron's price these days here's a link to many guitar IR:

http://noox.sitesled.com/

About 100 IR, quite big, in the 500k area...

Dali
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Old 11-27-2009, 03:54 AM   #77
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I've played many years and haven't had a problem yet. If I'm looking for clean sustain I'll usually walk over to a Fender. Instead of wasting hours tweaking down a gritty high gain Marshall. But that's just me.
Now here's a wake up call for you. There are far more ways of getting a solid tone down than your over simplified a and b. Believe it or not, guitarists recorded music well before the advent of computers.

PRS


Btw, when the designers decide to release a Vintage Fender/Boogie style Amp Sim I'll be there.
I thought you were talking about amp sims though PRS. No need to educate me either, it sounds like my comment touched a nerve.

I don't question your ability or knowledge, just your attitude to finding the tone you want with an amp sim.

There is a big difference between an amp suite and an amp sim, people are always referring to them as if they are the same. In short what I call a chain is what you get inside a suite

The big names make amp "suites" these are really not just amp sims but a collection of plugs in a chain. Not to patronise you but as information for other readers it should be born in mind that this is how they are able to make presets to accompany the package. That is a selection that might amount to compression EQ, amp sim, chorus, delay, speaker cab IR, reverb etc all tweaked to perfection for you to have a great out of the box experience. That's why people are attracted to these suites. What I am trying to get across is that all the parts of the sum are available separately and may in some case be better or more flexible - and apart from saving money you won't have any annoying copy protection to deal with.

The not so obvious mistake people often make is thinking an "amp sim" will give you anything like a decent tone without having to add anything but a bog standard speaker impulse

Developers of amp sims may or may not be good guitarists. People like Ken are getting closer to the sounds guitarists really want by listening to them. It's this kind of collaboration that would produce the best plugs, you are welcome to take part or just wait until all the work is done, it's up to you. Either way nobody should lose sight of the fact that an amp and speakers in a room is going to produce a unique sound and if that's the sound you like - that's the sound you should record.

If, on the other hand you find, as I have, that you can get sounds from amp sims that are perfect for the music you are making there's a massive advantage

The catch is it may take a bit of work, this is something being done for you free of charge on your behalf but stomping your feet saying "I want it now! Don't trouble me with things you think I need to understand - I don't have time for that - just give it to me now!" doesn't really help you, or anybody else

I think it is highly probable the tone you want is achievable but I don't see you finding it any time soon, simply because you don't seem prepared to go to any trouble
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:38 AM   #78
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Now why don't you ever give me a shit kicking in a nice way like that...I always get the "you suck", kick in the nuts routine!
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:27 AM   #79
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Now why don't you ever give me a shit kicking in a nice way like that...I always get the "you suck", kick in the nuts routine!
KM
Sorry Ken - I've been ill and not feeling myself lately
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:45 PM   #80
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Ahh that explains it..
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