Old 01-03-2011, 02:25 PM   #1
Axiom
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I have been into digital recording for about three years. I can write a song that sounds like it should with the levels proper and the reverb and Eq. Now, I don't want to be in a band because everytime I try there are problems with the other musicians except that taking over all instruments has turned me into a fall on my face flat out DRUNK! There is so much work involved! Does anyone have any advice because I know that I can sell music, I have done it before. Writing a solo album is becoming a very large chore and the problem is: I know what I need to hear and I am the only one who can create that.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:08 PM   #2
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Same problem here, think iv'e lost the creativety in the learning process . 1 song 3 years . Have over 300 unfinished bits & bobs in Reaper & A Live but never get the end. As you say its become a chore ! Any advice anyone ?
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:17 PM   #3
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i know what you mean. i'm in that huge chore myself. it's kind of cool in a way though. but others often will do stuff that you don't want to hear until you've heard it, so input from others can be cool. it just depends which others, and how your styles mix together.

others will never be able to do exactly what you imagine unless you have a way of taking what you imagine and showing them exactly what you mean. this can be done with standard notation, or by playing it, or a recording you made. alot of the time though, people don't really like to be told what to play, people are generally open to constructive criticism and sharing of ideas, but there comes a certain point, where too much direction is too much. but not all musicians need too much direction. sometimes you can give somethign to a musician with something of an idea of what you want in your head, and then they go and take it to a whole new level you never thought of and that introduces a whole new set of awesome ideas you have.

this is also the difficulty of doing stuff all on your own. there is no other inspiration except for yourself. it's not easy, and it's not fast. let alone the time you need to write songs and become agile in multiple instruments. the task is large. you're doing multiple roles that people spend lifetimes concentrating on just one of them.

as for the chore aspect and lack of creativity. producing many complete songs in a short time span is not likely gonna happen. but what i do is i don't force anything onto myself. if i feel like writing a song, i'll write a song. if i feel like producing that song, i will. i'll try to go often with my feel. but productivity cannot be high. you need to practice your dexterity, you need to come up with new tunes, and then produce them, and also find all the parts for all the instruments for them.

making it work, i think is bad though to a certain point. you want to let yourself be creative and do it for fun, often input from others to spark creativity can help for that, but so can learning new songs, and listening to some kind of music alot. but deadlines and focusing on finishing something and being persistent with finishing it is also very good. you don't really want to start somethign and then leave it unfinished. which i hate to say is something i do a hell of alot as well.

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Old 01-03-2011, 03:17 PM   #4
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Same problem here, think iv'e lost the creativety in the learning process . 1 song 3 years . Have over 300 unfinished bits & bobs in Reaper & A Live but never get the end. As you say its become a chore ! Any advice anyone ?
I have about 150 unfinished. I cant stop even though I try. I don't really want to stop but doing all of it by myself is incredibly demanding. Sometimes I feel like I am gonna take over the business. So I know I have false hopes but I'm doing what I love. Weird.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:18 PM   #5
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Be more picky!

After 10 years as an solo artist the best lesson I learned is not to save any bit of music that seems to be finished some day. I never finish those. What I do finish will be ideas that reach a certain state in a fair amount of time. This could be just having enough elements I like or having something roughly arranged.

I had my time of one song a year, but these times also been good for learning and again not keeping every bit. I had over 1500 project files back in the days when I used only Reason. I still have 30 MIDI-files back from that time that I find nice but I doubt they will be ever a finished song.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:18 PM   #6
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i know what you mean. i'm in that huge chore myself. it's kind of cool in a way though. but others often will do stuff that you don't want to hear until you've heard it, so input from others can be cool. it just depends which others, and how your styles mix together.

others will never be able to do exactly what you imagine unless you have a way of taking what you imagine and showing them exactly what you mean. this can be done with standard notation, or by playing it, or a recording you made. alot of the time though, people don't really like to be told what to play, people are generally open to constructive criticism and sharing of ideas, but there comes a certain point, where too much direction is too much. but not all musicians need too much direction. sometimes you can give somethign to a musician with something of an idea of what you want in your head, and then they go and take it to a whole new level you never thought of and that introduces a whole new set of awesome ideas you have.

this is also the difficulty of doing stuff all on your own. there is no other inspiration except for yourself. it's not easy, and it's not fast. let alone the time you need to write songs and become agile in multiple instruments. the task is large. you're doing multiple roles that people spend lifetimes concentrating on just one of them.
I think your right about alot of what you said.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:20 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
i know what you mean. i'm in that huge chore myself. it's kind of cool in a way though. but others often will do stuff that you don't want to hear until you've heard it, so input from others can be cool. it just depends which others, and how your styles mix together.

others will never be able to do exactly what you imagine unless you have a way of taking what you imagine and showing them exactly what you mean. this can be done with standard notation, or by playing it, or a recording you made. alot of the time though, people don't really like to be told what to play, people are generally open to constructive criticism and sharing of ideas, but there comes a certain point, where too much direction is too much. but not all musicians need too much direction. sometimes you can give somethign to a musician with something of an idea of what you want in your head, and then they go and take it to a whole new level you never thought of and that introduces a whole new set of awesome ideas you have.

this is also the difficulty of doing stuff all on your own. there is no other inspiration except for yourself. it's not easy, and it's not fast. let alone the time you need to write songs and become agile in multiple instruments. the task is large. you're doing multiple roles that people spend lifetimes concentrating on just one of them.
Did you ever write something and then see the same idea pop up in the commercial world like TV and advertising?
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:58 PM   #8
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It's a difficult pattern to break. But as like with every animal behavior, reinforcement is your friend.

You are used to leave things unfinished and 'ideas' accumulate. That is the 'functional mode' that your brain has learned. Your mind indulges itself following that same path over and over again since it now happens without much effort. Brains tend to be quite lazy after a while.

Now your main task is to focus on finishing projects. Become aware of that goal, reminding yourself that goal in each part of the creative process. Build that little by little, keeping things simple at first and limiting yourself with your tools and resources (less is usually more). Don't worry of the outcome, your projects will become more elaborate and better by themselves in time. Your brain will get used to that new mode and it will come naturally to you, just as your current behavioral pattern you want to get rid of. You can sacrifice anything but the fact that sooner than later you must yield a finished project.

Believe me, it works. I have been there and psychology does its job. You will be surprised in a few weeks when instead of 100 'useable' ideas you will have a small bunch of finished pieces. That is far more rewarding.

Be also aware that perfection is your main enemy and projects are never 100% done, you just clench your teeth and abandon them. However make sure that when that happens, your project has a certain sense of completeness. You will know the feeling. If you want to improve it in the future, it will be far more productive and satisfactory to revisit a complete project than just loose and incongruent music parts. You will also be older and hopefully more music savvy, so you will do a better job then too.

My last suggestion is that you start working only in one project at a time. You can only resume making things in parallel when you are sure you broke your old ways, learning to be aware and vigilant of your priorities. Not everyone is able to do that though (I certainly can't).

Hope this helps. Cheers.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
i know what you mean. i'm in that huge chore myself. it's kind of cool in a way though. but others often will do stuff that you don't want to hear until you've heard it, so input from others can be cool. it just depends which others, and how your styles mix together.

others will never be able to do exactly what you imagine unless you have a way of taking what you imagine and showing them exactly what you mean. this can be done with standard notation, or by playing it, or a recording you made. alot of the time though, people don't really like to be told what to play, people are generally open to constructive criticism and sharing of ideas, but there comes a certain point, where too much direction is too much. but not all musicians need too much direction. sometimes you can give somethign to a musician with something of an idea of what you want in your head, and then they go and take it to a whole new level you never thought of and that introduces a whole new set of awesome ideas you have.

this is also the difficulty of doing stuff all on your own. there is no other inspiration except for yourself. it's not easy, and it's not fast. let alone the time you need to write songs and become agile in multiple instruments. the task is large. you're doing multiple roles that people spend lifetimes concentrating on just one of them.

as for the chore aspect and lack of creativity. producing many complete songs in a short time span is not likely gonna happen. but what i do is i don't force anything onto myself. if i feel like writing a song, i'll write a song. if i feel like producing that song, i will. i'll try to go often with my feel. but productivity cannot be high. you need to practice your dexterity, you need to come up with new tunes, and then produce them, and also find all the parts for all the instruments for them.

making it work, i think is bad though to a certain point. you want to let yourself be creative and do it for fun, often input from others to spark creativity can help for that, but so can learning new songs, and listening to some kind of music alot. but deadlines and focusing on finishing something and being persistent with finishing it is also very good. you don't really want to start somethign and then leave it unfinished. which i hate to say is something i do a hell of alot as well.
I have a problem and that is that I am constantly changing what I like. Yesterday it was "Hurt" tomorrow it will be "Katy Perry" then "Goo Goo Dolls" So I never know how my music should end. I think I am almost there. Just a few more things to figure out and then I can finish a bunch of my material. Ill never stop.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:02 PM   #10
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It's a difficult pattern to break. But as like with every animal behavior, reinforcement is your friend.

You are used to leave things unfinished and 'ideas' accumulate. That is the 'functional mode' that your brain has learned. Your mind indulges itself following that same path over and over again since it now happens without much effort. Brains tend to be quite lazy after a while.

Now your main task is to focus on finishing projects. Become aware of that goal, reminding yourself that goal in each part of the creative process. Build that little by little, keeping things simple at first and limiting yourself with your tools and resources (less is usually more). Don't worry of the outcome, your projects will become more elaborate and better by themselves in time. Your brain will get used to that new mode and it will come naturally to you, just as your current behavioral pattern you want to get rid of.

Believe me, it works. I have been there and psychology does its job. You will be surprised in a few weeks when instead of 100 'useable' ideas you will have a small bunch of finished pieces. That is far more rewarding.

Be also aware that perfection is your main enemy and projects are never 100% done, you just clench your teeth and abandon them. However make sure that when that happens, your project has a certain sense of completeness. You will know the feeling. If you want to improve it in the future, it will be far more productive and satisfactory to revisit a complete project than just loose and incongruent music parts.

My last suggestion is that you start working only in one project at a time. You can only resume making things in parallel when you are certain you broke your old ways, learning to be aware and vigilant of your priorities. Not everyone is able to do that though (I certainly can't).

Hope this helps. Cheers.
Thanks, you have helped me alot, the current position I am in is good and bad at the same time but I know that I need to pump out some finished stuff. Just not sure how to get there.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:23 PM   #11
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Just not sure how to get there.
As I illustrated, you learn to do by doing. Unfortunately there are no magic tricks or pills yet.

Good luck with your music.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:13 PM   #12
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was helpful to read some of these posts. im in a rut now as well. i play music for a living so its not ideal to say the least. i find im so easily distracted lately..... movies, video games, friends etc.

im really happy with what im writing but im fucking scattered. writing idea after idea not finishing ANYTHING. it almost scares me to finish something as of late. u know what i mean? you dont want to fuck up the first ideas or something.


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Be also aware that perfection is your main enemy and projects are never 100% done,

this is me in a nutshell

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Old 01-03-2011, 05:14 PM   #13
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I can only give you some of my work-flow tips.Use any that are useful,ignore those that aren't.

If it's not fun it don't get done e.g if it starts becoming a chore stop and do something else.Play a game or something for a few minutes etc.

Stick to an easy song format just to get an idea as a song finished e.g Intro/Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Middle/Verse repeat chorus to end.You can easily chop and paste them in Reaper after they are done to make different arrangements without even playing all the parts again if you don't want to.
I often come up with a verse and a chorus and just record 1 verse 1 chorus and then copy and paste them to make a full song just so it's a song block rather than just a riff idea.

Remember that a full song of musical backing is easier to go back to at a later date no matter how crappy the original may have been and try again or as often happens sometime later a better verse or chorus comes to mind that can be substituted.It also happens that an idea in one so called,"Completed song" will fit better in a song that you are working on later so you can raid your own song library.

I don't kid myself.I don't think I'm ever going to write a,"Brilliant" song but am happy to be able to make a listenable one.

Use anything you like or can to make/finish a song.This song was done in less than two hours.

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_2784235

It's nothing great and I,"Cheated".I found some royalty free samples on my hard drive that I got with another inferior DAW I bought before Reaper.Being a tight-wad I wanted my monies worth so just chopped and pasted the guitar and pianos samples into verses/choruses and did some drums with my Jamstix(Best ever Drum software for composing IMHO) and added a bass line and Slide guitar.

For me and as above it's about getting a song to it's end knowing full well it may not be it's last incarnation.

Remember that if you are at home you are not,"On-The-Clock" so it's costing nothing as such so you can always go back for free

HTH
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:20 PM   #14
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"Katy Perry" then "Goo Goo Dolls"
i think you have bigger problems
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:25 PM   #15
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I have a problem and that is that I am constantly changing what I like. Yesterday it was "Hurt" tomorrow it will be "Katy Perry" then "Goo Goo Dolls" So I never know how my music should end. I think I am almost there. Just a few more things to figure out and then I can finish a bunch of my material. Ill never stop.
i think it is you compering your self with this artists you like.
it is all fine, but you have to find (or make) the frame, and than act inside.

dont leave yourself with to many possibilities to choose from. we have to make decisions .. frame.

sometimes i think i am actually seeking for myself in this attempts to find my music ... it is clear to me now that there is no easy way, and i have to learn to appreciate all my "mistakes"
because it is actually just peeling of unwonted layers of my brian

good luck!
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:30 PM   #16
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I'm in the same mess here. I know how you feel.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by pbk View Post
It's a difficult pattern to break. But as like with every animal behavior, reinforcement is your friend.

You are used to leave things unfinished and 'ideas' accumulate. That is the 'functional mode' that your brain has learned. Your mind indulges itself following that same path over and over again since it now happens without much effort. Brains tend to be quite lazy after a while.

Now your main task is to focus on finishing projects. Become aware of that goal, reminding yourself that goal in each part of the creative process. Build that little by little, keeping things simple at first and limiting yourself with your tools and resources (less is usually more). Don't worry of the outcome, your projects will become more elaborate and better by themselves in time. Your brain will get used to that new mode and it will come naturally to you, just as your current behavioral pattern you want to get rid of. You can sacrifice anything but the fact that sooner than later you must yield a finished project.

Believe me, it works. I have been there and psychology does its job. You will be surprised in a few weeks when instead of 100 'useable' ideas you will have a small bunch of finished pieces. That is far more rewarding.

Be also aware that perfection is your main enemy and projects are never 100% done, you just clench your teeth and abandon them. However make sure that when that happens, your project has a certain sense of completeness. You will know the feeling. If you want to improve it in the future, it will be far more productive and satisfactory to revisit a complete project than just loose and incongruent music parts. You will also be older and hopefully more music savvy, so you will do a better job then too.

My last suggestion is that you start working only in one project at a time. You can only resume making things in parallel when you are sure you broke your old ways, learning to be aware and vigilant of your priorities. Not everyone is able to do that though (I certainly can't).

Hope this helps. Cheers.
I Like !!
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:48 PM   #18
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Same problem here, think iv'e lost the creativety in the learning process . 1 song 3 years . Have over 300 unfinished bits & bobs in Reaper & A Live but never get the end. As you say its become a chore ! Any advice anyone ?

Dude...yes.

I will give away a big secret here. And to some, it may just blow right by.

Write it down. Write out the song list. If its an EP, write down the 5 or 6 songs tiles...mess around with the arrangement of the names for a minute. First step is writing the songs names on paper.

If theres something you want to manifest my friend, all you have to do is do it.

Sure, sure - its some hippy-ish advice. But dig what im saying. Once theyre written down...boom, youll come up with an album title - then boom, youll get ideas from the art. It will domino something silly till its all done.

Tip the first domino over by writing down the songs names you want to see in a collection. Not jokin'
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:05 PM   #19
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I'm in the same mess here. I know how you feel.
You spend about a bazillion hours a day on this forum don't you. Probably a good place to start

There's some good stuff I found a while back on 'flow':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...eative-output/

For me the key is two-fold:

- Firstly, organise your objectives for each session. The 'blank canvas' starting point is not a good thing. Keep notebooks full of fresh ideas you want to explore, lists of tasks on existing projects and so forth. If you only have an hour to sit down and do something, make it productive - consult your 'to do' list and tick something off. Write those variations or work on the dynamics of the hi-hats or whatever it is. Nowadays we are blessed with tools to make this easy. I use Evernote to organise all this stuff, as well as putting note items into projects so if I'm listening to tracks late at night and thinking 'yeah, damn, I need to do x, y and z to this tune', it's written down and there for when I return to it. The objective here is to make all your time valuable and precious. You want to keep yourself too busy to get bored, distracted and frustrated. The only way to do this is to have enough prep coming into each session. There is value is messing around sometimes, in the same way an artist fills up sketch books. Save these projects, tag them, maybe even bounce them down and give them descriptive file names so you can scan through them in future and incorporate elements into another work.

- Secondly, organise your time. Remove distractions and put your internet router into a locked box with a timer on the mechanism (I'm looking at you EvilDragon ;D ).

There's an unbelievably awesome thread written by the unashamedly generous Yep on this topic - http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=32580. Someone's compiled it into a PDF somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment I'm afraid.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:28 PM   #20
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My Recommendation to songwriters is always to let it flow onto "Tape"... Just create the music.

The creative process for a lot of songwriters that I know STOPS when they start to edit and mix. Find yourself an engineer that can edit and mix well... hire him/her to edit and mix the songs that flow the best on to "tape" and you will have more songs done and ready to pop on iTunes then if you did it on your own (even if you are a good editor or mixer).

And I'm not just saying this because I'm a Editing/mixing engineer.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:15 PM   #21
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Thanks, you have helped me alot, the current position I am in is good and bad at the same time but I know that I need to pump out some finished stuff. Just not sure how to get there.
You've written 150 bits? Start putting them together. Your songs are finished, you just don't know it yet.

I tend to write in spurts, about half a song at a time. I'll let a bit chill for about a week before I come back to it and usually that works.. either I'll write the other half and hammer out an arrangement, or realize that this half will work nicely with a half I wrote last month or a few days ago.

Quit farkin' around writing bits (the fun part) and start putting them together and creating real songs (the even more fun part!). Good luck!
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:03 AM   #22
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I have been into digital recording for about three years. I can write a song that sounds like it should with the levels proper and the reverb and Eq. Now, I don't want to be in a band because everytime I try there are problems with the other musicians except that taking over all instruments has turned me into a fall on my face flat out DRUNK! There is so much work involved! Does anyone have any advice because I know that I can sell music, I have done it before. Writing a solo album is becoming a very large chore and the problem is: I know what I need to hear and I am the only one who can create that.
Yea, there's a lot of work involved. What did you expect?
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:20 AM   #23
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I totally get you, for a long time I`ve been writing everything in guitar pro and it was quite easy, you just have one shitty sound for every instrument and all you are supposed to do is write out the notes

In the last year I`ve gotten in the DAW business and tbh it`s getting quite tiresome. First, I had to learn everything there is and currently that seems as a never ending quest. In the beginning it was fun reading all the manuals, trying out stuff...now it`s just plain boring and kills my creativity so I decided to ditch it and work things out as they come. That also includes using less programs and samples. Buy only what you really need...it saves both your wallet and sanity.

My biggest problem is I mainly work with virtual instruments and it`s quite a task to do it all by yourself! There is no second opinion, there is no "others" to help out when you`re in a rut.

At the same time you need to compose your stuff, arrange it and mix it. Since we are talking about virtual instruments you have to do A LOT of automation to make it sound close to real stuff. Add to that my obsession with notation and need to keep everything real (playable in real world) and it`s getting quite cumbersome.

I start with this cool melody, riff, whatever...and then loose 2 hours on making it sound right. It leaves you exhausted and you leave it unfinished.

But I made a decision, no more big plans, no more thinking about genre, duration etc. I made this one 2 minute song few days ago, it took me 12 hours to make it sound all right (only 5 instruments, lol) and said to my self that I will not leave it. I will follow it`s flow. Turn those few musical sentences to a story. I will write out the second song, the third...until I finish it all. I don`t care if in the middle of the whole process I decide I want to drastically alter the sound of the whole piece. I will try to reincorporate it, change is good and is needed (especially in music).

The only rule is: I do it everyday, no matter the time I have. If I have 12 hours, great! If I have 20 minutes, who gives a damn, I`ll use those 20 minutes in the best possible manner I can! If do not feel I am up for it I will still try to do it (as pbk has greatly pointed out it`s all about behaviour reinforcement). No more writing out countless ideas or using my old midi stuff. Everything I write has to be connected to that one big piece, one idea, one story. After a few years I might look back and think about it as the worst thing I`ve ever done but who gives a f**k? Just write, one song at the time, one story at the time...as the time passes you will learn a lot, create a lot and in the end be happy with yourself
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:33 AM   #24
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My Recommendation to songwriters is always to let it flow onto "Tape"... Just create the music.

The creative process for a lot of songwriters that I know STOPS when they start to edit and mix. Find yourself an engineer that can edit and mix well... hire him/her to edit and mix the songs that flow the best on to "tape" and you will have more songs done and ready to pop on iTunes then if you did it on your own (even if you are a good editor or mixer).

And I'm not just saying this because I'm a Editing/mixing engineer.
I don't think you need to hire an engineer at all if all you want to achieve is getting a few of your songs recorded.

If you only manage to record one song within three years, then you don't even need to dream about selling your music.



For men it tends to work like this: Start with any kind of hook. Create the song around this hook by adding stuff, then add some more stuff. After that refine it.

E.g.: I have a nice guitar pattern - so I

- record it

- program a simple beat that supports it

- record bass-guitar

- create another pattern that works nice in combination the the first one. One of both might be verse, the other chrosu

- record it

- mutate the beat accordingly

- record bass-guitar

- play both parts together or individually in order to come up with some words, then start sketching out the lyrics.

- think about an arrangement; this depends on the lyrics

- consider adding one or two bridges (again, depending on the lyrics).


Now the basic song is finished. This usually takes me something like two to four hours.

After that I only need to work on recording, arranging and producing it in the best way. This usually takes something like one or two weeks (during which I work on other songs as well though).

Come on - it really isn't hard! I think some of you guys are trying too hard, then everything becomes difficult.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:00 AM   #25
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I never subsrcibed to the idea that you can create proper music (be it in the song format or other) by just sitting down and futzing around with the latest VST(i) downloaded from the internet.

I write songs using a guitar or piano plus a piece of paper and a pen.

Only when I feel the song is finished do I start recording.

That does not mean I do not do a fair share of futzing around - after all, it can be a lot of fun, too. But even if it may sometimes lead to pleasant results, it has nothing at all to do with the art/craft/ywhatever you think it is> of songwriting or composing.

But maybe I am wrong. If I had not thrown away all the tapes I recorded trying to figure out my first synthesizer (MS20 + SQ10), I could have become the grandfather of techno muzak, most of which still sounds to me like equipment tests ("Look, there's a button labelled 'Filter Reesonance'!").

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Old 01-04-2011, 01:18 AM   #26
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I never subsrcibed to the idea that you can create proper music (be it in the song format or other) by just sitting down and futzing around with the latest VST(i) downloaded from the internet.

I write songs using a guitar or piano plus a piece of paper and a pen.

Only when I feel the song is finished do I start recording.
Of course, everybody has their own way of making music

We are all different, what works for one person can certainly fail for the other. My only point is that you should write (however you see fit!) every day unless it`s a really bad day

I am working with sampled instruments and hearing it directly as I write gives me an ability to decide how instruments blend with each other. I am far too inexperienced so for me this is the only way to actually study the sound and make correct decisions about arranging the piece
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:34 AM   #27
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But maybe I am wrong.
You surely are. You simply can't judge the quality of art by the way it was created.

And I doubt that you'll often find e.g. Richard David James sitting down of the floor of his appartement, strumming his old Takamine and crooning his latest choon. Ande I doubt that Beethoven did that often either - especially after he became deaf reports of people wittnessing him hammering down his new symphony on his beloved pianoforte became very rare.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:54 AM   #28
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I never subsrcibed to the idea that you can create proper music (be it in the song format or other) by just sitting down and futzing around with the latest VST(i) downloaded from the internet.
Thats such a load of crap I cant even begin. Great that you use a pen and piano to write a song. We live in different times. Saying you CANT do that is just plain ignorant. LOTS of bands use VSTi's.... probably bands you listen to as well.

New Mogwai has a TON of soft synth stuff but thats not proper stuff......
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:02 AM   #29
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You surely are. You simply can't judge the quality of art by the way it was created.

And I doubt that you'll often find e.g. Richard David James sitting down of the floor of his appartement, strumming his old Takamine and crooning his latest choon. Ande I doubt that Beethoven did that often either - especially after he became deaf reports of people wittnessing him hammering down his new symphony on his beloved pianoforte became very rare.
Richard David who?

Beethovens grasp of music was so extensive that he did not require to actually hear the things he designed in his mind. That would be my favourite mode of operation, but I am afraid I am not that good.

I am not "strumming [my] old Takamine" in order to become the Son of Donovan, but in order to reduce muscial aspects such as harmony etc. to their purest form. And the end result usually sounds anything but folksy.

I have to admit that in 30 years of knob twiddling (and strumming Takamines), I have failed to develop a deep respect for other knob twiddlers. I have, however, developed a respect for composers and songwriters. I am fully aware that this might be a minority view on a forum where discussions on issues like customizable mouse actions (which to me is meta-knob twiddling) are much more prominent than discussions about music, but there it is.

Your mileage, however, may vary.

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Old 01-04-2011, 02:07 AM   #30
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Time to unmount the high horse, me thinks...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphex_Twin


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a forum where discussions on issues like customizable mouse actions [...] are much more prominent than discussions about musi

They are not. It is your own distorted view again, which suggest you this.

Last edited by jens; 01-04-2011 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:13 AM   #31
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It's a difficult pattern to break.

---

Hope this helps. Cheers.
Really great post. I struggle with this too.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:28 AM   #32
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I'm a fan of placing artificial limits, especially on time.

Like others have said, focusing on finishing some old ideas should help get you out of your rut for now, but keeping creative constraints on yourself or forcing yourself out of comfortable habits you've created will keep things from becoming chore-like in the future.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:32 AM   #33
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Richard D James and other great masters (yes, I consider him one), having many things in common. One of them being information management. Composers rarely just sat down and wrote a score. They produced hundreds (thousands) of sketches, variations, explorations on paper which they then referred to, copied from and bastardised. This was especially prevalent in the beginning of the 20th century when people like Mahler and Stravinksy (there were many others besides) began finding and capturing rural folk songs. The Rite of Spring is built on a patchwork of various melodies that are not wholly original.

The point I'm trying to make, before this all goes waaay off topic, is that we are and always have been blessed (and cursed) with a wealth of options. In order to make the most of our time we have to be organised and disciplined. Oh and as mentioned before, we need to turn our internet connections off - seriously, this will probably make the single biggest short-term difference to your productivity.

(Bartok on Stravinsky on sampling and copyright: http://www.jstor.org/pss/831304 )
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:32 AM   #34
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Time to unmount the high horse, me thinks...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphex_Twin
Some people don't recognize humour even when it hits them in the face.

Quote:
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It is your own distorted view again, which suggest you this.
I continue to see this as a forum for free exchange of views rather than jihadism, and refrain from answering in kind. But maybe a little bit of relaxation might prove profitable for your musical endeavours?

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Old 01-04-2011, 05:21 AM   #35
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Learnt the hard way to never throw anything away and to NEVER assume that because it doesnt fit the song you are writing now you wont find a use for that odd bridge, hook, chorus, etc etc that you have left over.

I have wound up with some decent songs made up of scraps from the bottom of the shoebox.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:26 AM   #36
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Well, I (more a computer geek, who is only a wannabe musician) have a secret that works for me.

Never write music directly into notes (or MIDI). First play it with live instrument (I play a guitar).
Improvise and play randomly, so long, that you'll forget that you're playing and will start thinking about other things. Then, you will realize that you are playing something good. You can record the whole session, so you will not forget what you've played. And you have the first "riff". Then play this same riff, without thinking, until you will automatically, unconsciously play the bridge and another riff. Continue until you will have enough segments, and only then start to think rationally, and organize and repeat segments into verses, choruses etc.

Because if you are thinking how to make a song, your rational thinking will block your emotional feelings, and this will seam as the lack of the inspiration.

Of course, as cricket said, if you already have the song titles, the number of songs, the album name, and the story/concept behind the songs, it is easier, as you already have the associations to the picture in your head, which will affect your unconsciousness.

This works for me, and I am finishing my second album in 2 years (this last one took me only half a year).
And yes, I NEVER change the songs that I've written. I like my songs even after 2 years. They are perfect (except the sound, as I didn't have good enough plugins at that time).
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:46 AM   #37
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Unfortunately a lot of great music is not written by just one person, that would be a monumental feat. A lot of popular music today is recorded with musicians that aren't even in the band. It's a sad truth that many great performance musicians aren't very good in the studio. Then the talents of a good producer can never be underestimated. Sadly, a lot of great music came about by a producer crafting the arrangement, not the band. Then after the producer you end up in the realm of professional mixers, who can take the great stuff of a great producer to an even higher level. For one person to do a solo album from arrangement to mastering requires too much expertise in too many areas outside of mastering the voice or an instrument.

I would suggest trying to work with others to help get stuff done, polished and ready for distribution. With the Internet and all digital workflows, this is much easier and you will be amazed at how much individual talent there is out there just begging to collaborate with other great talents. This forum is probably full of great talents from all aspects of music production.

EDIT: Thinking about this after my post, why don't you sit down with a decent producer and maybe he/she could take your material and help you mold it into 10 great arrangements, help you track any new stuff, and then suggest a good pro to do the mixes?

Last edited by DigiDis; 01-04-2011 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Additions
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:57 AM   #38
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For one person to do a solo album from arrangement to mastering requires too much expertise in too many areas outside of mastering the voice or an instrument.
Worked for me, why it couldn't for anyone else? It's not that hard.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:50 AM   #39
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For one person to do a solo album from arrangement to mastering requires too much expertise in too many areas outside of mastering the voice or an instrument.
difficult to say the least

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Worked for me, why it couldn't for anyone else? It's not that hard.
not that hard? i gotta hear your stuff. where is it?
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:56 AM   #40
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not that hard? i gotta hear your stuff. where is it?


Well this is off-topic, but...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69707
(one song as a teaser, other will be available when the album is published)
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