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Old 12-19-2023, 01:14 AM   #721
mschnell
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I do agree. IMHO it's a kind of cancer.
I'm slowly giving up, to be honest.
You mean like the support for the (depreciated by Steinberg framework) VST2 slowly fading out
Cancer of new standards such as Clap, Ableton "Link" ....
IMHO: Better always use something "open source" to have a chance of finding somebody who might be able to help if needed.
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Old 12-19-2023, 01:43 AM   #722
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You mean like the support for the (depreciated by Steinberg framework) VST2 slowly fading out
Cancer of new standards such as Clap, Ableton "Link" ....
IMHO: Better always use something "open source" to have a chance of finding somebody who might be able to help if needed.
the difference is: VST2 is SLOWLY fading out. There was more then enough time to find alternatives. I have no problem with changing workflows at all. I just cannot rely on things that immediately can destroy workflows. Worst case: Not even recognizing it when under the hood things just dont work any longer. If you're working on tight deadlines there is no room for hidden hickups.

I definitely love reaper for its customizability and scripting features. I use a ton of scripts but as "essential feature" replacement. If you're earning your money in the audio industry there is no time "to find somebody who might help".
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:23 AM   #723
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as "essential feature" replacement.
You very rightfully put this in quotes, as it depends on each individual user, what is "essential".
In fact this drastically changed for me during the last few years, and I was happy to have Reaper that could be enhanced by feature "essential" to me by enhancements done by other users and by myself.
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:47 AM   #724
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You mean like the support for the (depreciated by Steinberg framework) VST2 slowly fading out
Cancer of new standards such as Clap, Ableton "Link" ....
IMHO: Better always use something "open source" to have a chance of finding somebody who might be able to help if needed.
Yes it's a cancer that slowly eats what there is of good. When you are working, you can't rely on things that all of sudden is risking to break down workflow and projects. As far as you are not working in the basement, you have time constraints, you have paying customers, you have a series of things that don't permit to give space to "nerditude".

If Reaper implements things as NATIVE that are enabling working ppl to rely on these features and to speed up the workflow, also the basement-nerd will enjoy. And if he/she's so stubborn to stay with the old stuff, he/she can as well.

Instead I see on several level, that who works is put in second priority or even ignored.

Reaper is really quick, reliable, improves the workflow a lot. But certain important features (Gass in Klang listed some and we're here for the one is still missing) for who works with, are ignored and some of them, when implemented, are just an approximation (see how the containers are implemented. Not for who's working and has not time to go through pins, diagrams and whatsoever).

To leave these things to external scripts is just a no-go. If any is basing on the external scripts, he/she will meet severe issues impacting also pre-existent projects, in case the script's author gives up. It's already occurred e couple of time and it will occur.

It doesn't make any sense to keep the Reaper version with which one closed a project, because perhaps in few months one should installa htat version in order to reopen that project in case the used scripts are not any-longer working with the new reaper versions.

See HeDa scripts from the version 7.00.
And to be able to work really quickly and using the containers (especially in sound design) the only one way is to use Sexan's Script. The day he will give up and in which new versions of Reaper are making that script not any longer working: we're in the sh**t.

That's why certain things have to be native.

It's just an example, so it's not a unique stuff ...

Now back to the topic: it's important for who works for real, to have the less clicks as possible to implement something and in this case by enabling the Reasurround Panner as suggested.
I notice that this topic was opened at the time of the 6.21+dev0123

We are in the 7.07 .... in which I still use an old theme because the new one, not only is not yet ready, but has all what's needed on Layout B and some other needed parts on Layout A ... I can't work by witching Layouts. Again: the strong sensation about things not done for who's working.

hence my give-up status ... I mena: it's useless to try to explain these things to who is not interested to understand and solve these kind of issues ... it is like it is ... fortunately the time will make generation change and also ideas to be developed. Bye.
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Last edited by BartR; 12-19-2023 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 12-19-2023, 02:49 AM   #725
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Worst case: Not even recognizing it when under the hood things just dont work any longer. If you're working on tight deadlines there is no room for hidden hickups.

I definitely love reaper for its customizability and scripting features. I use a ton of scripts but as "essential feature" replacement. If you're earning your money in the audio industry there is no time "to find somebody who might help".
This risk exist with all daws. PT also can broke something under the hood with another update.
And if I have no time to explore the updates I just stay with previous versions. That way all scripts will work as expected.
I'm not a maniac and I feel ok if I install 1 update from last 10-20 ones.
I just read the update log to be in cource of progress. If I need something to test, I use separate portable Reaper.

And in my experience Reaper is most stable DAW because you can get feedback from devs, scripters, or find another way solution.

All stuff does require time to figure it out before using it. All stuff has it's own weak and strong places.

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Old 12-19-2023, 04:27 AM   #726
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yes but again: no problem with changing workflows if it's clear what changes. I always read through the logs of course and it's totally fine. But that won't tell me if any of the thousands of scripts will stop working with a specific update. I simply cannot test all scripts, extensions and so on when updating my software. But I'll know for sure if anything of the native stuff has been dropped.
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Old 12-19-2023, 04:46 AM   #727
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For the most part scripts can't automatically support new features, but works well with old stuff. So I can predict rather well what scripts will work fine and what could be broken.

I think if there is a feature you need rare enough, but strong need it, yes, there is a risk that something can go wrong, but such things can be done in another version, for exapmle.
And there is no big time wasting to setup an old version as a separate portable version.

Honestly I can't remember such cases where I was stuck and had no way because of versions incompatibillity.
Are you shure it has place quite ofthen?

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Old 12-19-2023, 05:06 AM   #728
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no, cause I'm trying to avoid these things. Especially when working for TV / radio. I'm working on a big blueray surround production for some weeks now (major label artist, 3 hour timecoded arena concert, 40 atmo mics, about 130 tracks ..., many razor edit groups and stuff going on). I simply cannot risk anything in such projects.
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Old 12-19-2023, 07:56 AM   #729
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For the most part scripts can't automatically support new features, but works well with old stuff. So I can predict rather well what scripts will work fine and what could be broken.

I think if there is a feature you need rare enough, but strong need it, yes, there is a risk that something can go wrong, but such things can be done in another version, for exapmle.
And there is no big time wasting to setup an old version as a separate portable version.

Honestly I can't remember such cases where I was stuck and had no way because of versions incompatibillity.
Are you shure it has place quite ofthen?
I do think in the same way of Gass n Klang.
There is no room for such kind of risks.
HeDa was great for Dubbing. Fortunately I'm working also with the scripts by X-Raym. But not only it's not the case of everyone, but to migrate from one to another it requires work. This work is not payed-out and it's totally a disrupting way to work.
WHose professionally working, cannot accept this kind of risks and would like to see these things natively implemented.

To be clear: sometimes also the native Features get some issue, but are promptly addressed. Like it was when one version of Reaper was exporting corrupted MP3s. Within 24h there was immediately the correction.

HeDa scripts are not working since the 7.00 was released. Not acceptable for pro use. It's not "so often" but it's enough to have created the fact.
I do remember one left the community and the development of his scripts as well (I don't recall his name). On that case, when certain APIs or functions will be not only deprecated but also eliminated, his scripts will no work any longer.

Who works in industry knows very well these concerns.
Yes I know it's the same of my scripts as well (the ones I have made for podcasting, audio books, installed plugins, export project data).
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Old 12-19-2023, 08:50 AM   #730
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yes but again: no problem with changing workflows if it's clear what changes. I always read through the logs of course and it's totally fine. But that won't tell me if any of the thousands of scripts will stop working with a specific update. I simply cannot test all scripts, extensions and so on when updating my software. But I'll know for sure if anything of the native stuff has been dropped.
I completly agree with you.

I used to be an hardcore REAPER user, I've used it for 10000 H at least, did scripts, etc...

But you are right you can't script everything.

As a professionnal rerecording mixer, REAPER is not the tool to use. I've done it, but it is not a solution.

The main problem is for example this Reasurround pan, that is not integrated. You can't pan your aux differently than the main path. I do this so often in pro tools, than it is just a show stopper for me. No possible workaround.

Performance are WAY better in Pro tools than in REAPER once you disable the anticipative fx. You need to disable anticipative fx to have no latency in faders move to hear what you do and to make a good mix.

Automation management is so poorly done in REAPER. It is such a PITA to use. It is automation for casual user. Not for people automating 300 parameters on 200 tracks for 2 hours of timeline.

I still use REAPER for music, where these problems are less important.

The main problem of pro tools is the greediness of Avid, other than that, Pro tools is a nice professionnal software, which evolving nicely (folder tracks, for exemple) . I love to mix movie with it.

As you, I do find a bit sad that in this community some people are not hearing this.
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