Old 06-12-2019, 07:57 PM   #1
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Default Anybody using a Ryzen?

I'm thinking about building a new DAW and considering going with an AMD processor for the first time since building a machine based on an AMD 5x86 back in 1998.

Thirty or so Intel based machines since then (I built all my own home machines plus all the networked machines at the office I where worked) and I'm thinking about doing an AMD again, but not because someone gave me a CPU they thought was bad this time. I'm just getting sick of seeing new "speculative execution" vulnerabilities being discovered for Intel CPUs that are not present on AMD silicon.

I hear the 3rd generation Ryzens are coming out next month and I've been sort of toying with the idea of building myself a new DAW based on an 8 core Ryzen 7 3700X. So is anybody here running a Ryzen based DAW in Linux, and if so are there any big positive or negative things to be aware of?
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:55 PM   #2
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For me it was around 1997 that I had an AMD 5x86, and it was my last AMD CPU...until probably again soon, for the same reasons you're mentioning. I'll be watching this thread.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:38 PM   #3
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For me it was around 1997 that I had an AMD 5x86, and it was my last AMD CPU...until probably again soon, for the same reasons you're mentioning. I'll be watching this thread.
AMD has more clout than they had back in the old days. Their x86-64 architecture has become the de-facto standard where Intel's IA-64 architecture got officially dropped in 2010 by Microsoft and after that it was all over for the "Itanium" pipe dream.

Intel wasted a lot of time and money on that processor trying to break the x86 mold, and that's when AMD caught up with them.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:33 PM   #4
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For what its worth: I am running Amd athlon 4 core on my MIDI pc w/Reaper (no problems) (I have tested and ran Reaper on ddr1 and ddr2 And my main driver is Amd 8 core 8320e (no problems) DDR3 I kind of fell in love with both these set ups because I can swap Linux and windows hard drives without missing a beat (the bios and configuration does not change. I am sure the Ryzens are monsters! And thats where my upgrade will go - I am fan of microcenter I know their 2700 with mobo bundle is like $219: https://www.microcenter.com/product/...erboard-bundle - their other bundles here: https://www.microcenter.com/site/pro...d_bundles.aspx amd they are also known for their pre-sale bundles of new editions at rock bottom prices. (they have great return policies - I was never turned down for any request)
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:41 AM   #5
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I'm using an AMD FX-8350 (8core) processor w/ KDE Neon 5.16 (lowlatency) after KDE optimization it works very stable and fast, so there should be no problems with a Ryzen CPU.
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:23 AM   #6
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If I'm not mistaken Ryzen are the preferred cpu for those who make hackintosh computers?
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:05 AM   #7
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I read somewhere, that AMD cpus have bigger latency in realtime, i wonder, if it's true or fake.
Even 5-10 ms difference is very crucial to me.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:11 AM   #8
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If I'm not mistaken Ryzen are the preferred cpu for those who make hackintosh computers?

No! definitely not. While a ryzen hackintosh can be done, it looks like it's far from easy. As intel CPU's are the only ones officially supported by apple an intel CPU's is the recommended route for a hackintosh.


It does look like Apple have ditched support of nvidia so an AMD GPU is the right choice now for a fresh hackintosh build.


I jumped ship from macos to linux about 6 months ago & was considering a hackintosh at the time, most if not all the tutorials I watched were with an intel CPU.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:24 AM   #9
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@peevy, yep, intel cpu is a way for hackintosh, do your graphics card works ok on hackintosh? when i tried long time ago everything worked great, logic pro worked great, the only problem was videocard.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:41 AM   #10
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I read somewhere, that AMD cpus have bigger latency in realtime, i wonder, if it's true or fake.
Even 5-10 ms difference is very crucial to me.
Yes, that's what I read as well. Maybe this changes with TR3, though.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:52 AM   #11
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Thanks for all the feedback. One thing I'm going to have to do before going down this path is to do a project or two using my new USB based interface to make absolutely sure that I can go totally without my older M-Audio PCI based Delta 2496 cards.

The mobo I'd probably get would be the newest X570 series from Asus, and not a one of them has a legacy PCI slot. I'd likely do this entry level Prime 570X board, because the ones up from it are geared for gaming and mining, not really offering anything more for a DAW.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/PRIME-X570-P/

The other thing I'm considering if I build one of these is going to a 3U rack mount case that could go in the rack of my desk where a mixer is now. The 3U Behringer RX1202 mixer has nothing plugged into it now since buying a new UMC1820 audio interface. A cheep 3U rack server case and a couple of 120mm quiet fans can be had for less than $100.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:21 AM   #12
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I read somewhere, that AMD cpus have bigger latency in realtime, i wonder, if it's true or fake.
Even 5-10 ms difference is very crucial to me.
I've seen references to that as well. I've also seen stuff like this from threads about Ryzens. From Reddit 10 months ago 2nd gen Ryzen being discussed. I'd be moving from an old i5 as well.


======================8<========================== =
Q. How is the latency with Ryzen? You moving from an intel system?


A. Old 3rd gen Intel i5 (3570) on one machine and FX 8300 on another. I wasn't able to run my last project even with latency to the max and triple buffer.

With the 2700x, I can run that same project (25 track orchestral using mostly Kontakt libraries) with minimum latency (1ms) and my CPU usage hovers around 65%, with some spikes reaching mid 75's. I keep my latency at 12ms to be sure, but I could probably record in the same project at 1ms without any issues.
======================8<========================== =

I've found other positive threads like this one too, plus I have to wonder with every patch that's needed on an Intel to address the gaping "speculative execution" security holes, where AMD and Intel really stand in performance. And how many more "Intel Only" headlines will we see down the line like this one from a month ago.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/14/i...formance-hits/
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:55 AM   #13
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If I was building my pc now & not 6 months ago, I'd probably be going AMD threadripper. Not because the 8700k is performing badly but I've been using blender a lot lately which can now use GPU+CPU for rendering & those extra cores would speed things along nicely. Also the price difference between a 12 core threadripper & a similar specked xeon is unbelievable.


But yeah AMD/Ryzen are definitely a serious contender & as far as I know well supported on Linux.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:10 AM   #14
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@peevy, yep, intel cpu is a way for hackintosh, do your graphics card works ok on hackintosh? when i tried long time ago everything worked great, logic pro worked great, the only problem was videocard.



Well I haven't gone the hackintosh route & am happy to be back in Linux after about 7 years on mac which started on a mac mini & ended on a 5k imac. I just watched the price of mac go up year after year & couldn't justify another mac upgrade. I'm not the biggest fan of windows so here I am back with Linux & for the most part loving it.


I did go for mostly hardware that's supported by apple in case I ever change my mind. So when I bought a new GPU recently I went for an AMD RX580, because it looks like apple are no longer supporting nvidia cards. Plus the Linux Kernel supports AMD GPU's without having to mess with installing drivers. Although for working with blender I did have to install the userspace opencl-amd driver.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:51 AM   #15
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If I was building my pc now & not 6 months ago, I'd probably be going AMD threadripper. Not because the 8700k is performing badly but I've been using blender a lot lately which can now use GPU+CPU for rendering & those extra cores would speed things along nicely. Also the price difference between a 12 core threadripper & a similar specked xeon is unbelievable.


But yeah AMD/Ryzen are definitely a serious contender & as far as I know well supported on Linux.
I figure any new AMD or Intel will outperform my 2009 Intel i5 750. I use my machines until there is no tread left, then I re-purpose them. Old DAW becomes new MythTV server, old Myth server becomes new Kodi client in the living room and so on.

Interesting comment about AMD's Radeon being natively supported in Linux. I did not know that and have seen massive failures using nVidia's drivers for Linux. Change out a failing nVidia based video card with another and got things so effed up on my MythTV server that it took a re-install to fix it.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:05 AM   #16
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Interesting comment about AMD's Radeon being natively supported in Linux. I did not know that and have seen massive failures using nVidia's drivers for Linux. Change out a failing nVidia based video card with another and got things so effed up on my MythTV server that it took a re-install to fix it.

Yes it's definitely very convenient having the AMD GPU driver built into the kernel. The open source driver is also meant to perform much better for gaming than the proprietary pro driver. But if your using anything like Blender that uses the GPU for rendering you may need the pro driver. There is a workaround in using opencl-amd which is just the opencl part of the pro driver that works alongside the opensource driver. It works well with Blender but I can't get the free version of Davinci Resolve to work with it.


The only other thing to be careful of if you go AMD GPU is that if it's a reasonably newly released card it may not run as well with current kernel but this is usually quickly rectified when a newer kernel is released.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:29 AM   #17
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Yes it's definitely very convenient having the AMD GPU driver built into the kernel. The open source driver is also meant to perform much better for gaming than the proprietary pro driver. But if your using anything like Blender that uses the GPU for rendering you may need the pro driver. There is a workaround in using opencl-amd which is just the opencl part of the pro driver that works alongside the opensource driver. It works well with Blender but I can't get the free version of Davinci Resolve to work with it.


The only other thing to be careful of if you go AMD GPU is that if it's a reasonably newly released card it may not run as well with current kernel but this is usually quickly rectified when a newer kernel is released.
I don't use Blender currently (didn't that originate on the Amiga?), but I would likely need the OpenGL layer for a couple things I do run.

How is the Radeon running full field 1920x1080 video during a panoramic shot where everything on screen is moving? Is there screen tearing like I see on four different Linux/nVidia machines?

I have to use this line in xorg.conf to fix that problem.

Code:
Option "metamodes" "nvidia-auto-select +0+0 {ForceCompositionPipeline=On, ForceFullCompositionPipeline=On}"
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:41 PM   #18
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I got a an old dual xeon cpu mobo pc for $7. I figured I would use it for nas or worst a mid synth. It is actually a pci X. I know there was a way to convert a pci pc into a pcie computer. The pci video cards were like max 1gb ram and lacking speed too. There used to be a pci to pcie bridge in cirulation back around 2002 2003 era. I just ran across a thread today (2015) here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...-solution.html informative on audio recording.

and here is the other way PCIE to PCI bridge: https://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-A.../dp/B0024CV3SA

There are many things you can do even though many so called experts say nay.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:05 AM   #19
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I got a an old dual xeon cpu mobo pc for $7. I figured I would use it for nas or worst a mid synth. It is actually a pci X. I know there was a way to convert a pci pc into a pcie computer. The pci video cards were like max 1gb ram and lacking speed too. There used to be a pci to pcie bridge in cirulation back around 2002 2003 era. I just ran across a thread today (2015) here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...-solution.html informative on audio recording.

and here is the other way PCIE to PCI bridge: https://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-A.../dp/B0024CV3SA

There are many things you can do even though many so called experts say nay.
I knew there were converter gadgets like those, but I'd still be leery and every time something acted up I'd always suspect an adapter. In the early days of SATA I built my kid a machine, but it didn't have enough legacy IDE ports so I had to use a SATA to PATA adapter. While it did work, every time his computer did something weird I always wondered if some data got mangled by that adapter. Not long after building that machine, I got him a SATA drive.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:51 AM   #20
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I knew there were converter gadgets like those, but I'd still be leery and every time something acted up I'd always suspect an adapter. In the early days of SATA I built my kid a machine, but it didn't have enough legacy IDE ports so I had to use a SATA to PATA adapter. While it did work, every time his computer did something weird I always wondered if some data got mangled by that adapter. Not long after building that machine, I got him a SATA drive.
Yea can be quirky... I think the key might be using them on 'lanes' not direct to CPU. Just guessing.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:00 AM   #21
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Yea can be quirky... I think the key might be using them on 'lanes' not direct to CPU. Just guessing.
I read one guy with an RME card say it worked perfectly, but with fewer tracks, so there must be a hit in the translation. Others mentioned it needing to be on it's own IRQ and not sharing with anything.

I'm pretty convinced after messing around with my new USB audio interface that I will be no longer tied to PCI slots. They were being phased out when I built my DAW in 2009, but you can still get boards with them native. You can even get AM4 boards with two PCI slots like this one, but they'd be last gen stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Ryzen-Mo.../dp/B0716ZHGKF

The new Asus boards have no PCI slots on any version, but were made specifically to support the 3000 series Ryzen so they may support stuff that older boards won't.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:47 AM   #22
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...I know their 2700 with mobo bundle is like $219:
Thanks for the link. I'm probably going to get this. I have a friend in NJ who can pick it up and send it to me (I'm in Canada and we don't quite have deals like that here).
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:19 PM   #23
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Thanks for the link. I'm probably going to get this. I have a friend in NJ who can pick it up and send it to me (I'm in Canada and we don't quite have deals like that here).
I have never bought of Amazon yet; Micro Center is so cheap/good. There is one in Denver I go to once in a blue moon. But they run stupid deals like $1 PIs. I built this pc a while back with 8 core AMD for like $60 and returned Asus board - AND they honored the combo deal?!!. Mobo was like $16 and CPU was on sale. The other board I got a returner Gamer mobo for $13... I can read the monthly flyer like a magazine - they are so cool gl. I have never had a problem with them if I wanted to return or upgrade or down swap.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:24 PM   #24
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I knew there were converter gadgets like those, but I'd still be leery and every time something acted up I'd always suspect an adapter. In the early days of SATA I built my kid a machine, but it didn't have enough legacy IDE ports so I had to use a SATA to PATA adapter. While it did work, every time his computer did something weird I always wondered if some data got mangled by that adapter. Not long after building that machine, I got him a SATA drive.
LOL the biggest conspiracy theory in the day was going from PCIX to PCIE; And oh ya there is a shortage of 1gb ram video cards. More conjecture than anything else.. But you know if you can get the PCIE running on PCI board... you can get real good Dual Xeon PCs all day long from $5 to 15 (they are circa 2000-2005) There is still some interesting things you can do with PCI. You crack me up. RLOL
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:38 AM   #25
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Micro Center is so cheap/good.
QFT I drive four hours to get to a MicroCenter now and it's worth it. That said, Amazon (via camelcamelcamel), PC Parts Picker and NewEgg also come in handy.

Still, MicroCenter can't be beat.
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Old 06-16-2019, 09:07 AM   #26
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I knew there were converter gadgets like those, but I'd still be leery and every time something acted up I'd always suspect an adapter. In the early days of SATA I built my kid a machine, but it didn't have enough legacy IDE ports so I had to use a SATA to PATA adapter. While it did work, every time his computer did something weird I always wondered if some data got mangled by that adapter. Not long after building that machine, I got him a SATA drive.
FWIW, I have a startech pci/pcie converter, it works fine with my rme hdsp card. I tried another adapter too, which didn't work at all.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:20 PM   #27
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FWIW, I have a startech pci/pcie converter, it works fine with my rme hdsp card. I tried another adapter too, which didn't work at all.
If it has active electronics I would think it would have to introduce some additional latency. If OTOH it's just wires with no electronics that connects PCIe slot pins to PCI slot pins then I would think it could achieve zero latency.

That said, I read a post on another forum today where the poster said he could use the next smaller buffer size reliably when connected to a PCIe StarTech USB adapter but had to go the next smaller buffer size when using the motherboard USB.

That almost makes me want to spend $16 on Amazon to see if there is any truth to that. He was using a Behringer UMC1820 like I just bought, but also doing the same tests with a Focusrite unit.

Is motherboard USB slower than a PCIe base USB card in general, or would you think there would be any difference?
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:12 AM   #28
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I have no idea about the USB aspect of this. Maybe simply a better USB hub or something like that?
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:07 PM   #29
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I have heard the Startechs adapters were always better in general.
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Old 06-18-2019, 07:56 AM   #30
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I have heard the Startechs adapters were always better in general.
Here's the article I read that from. The guy gives a model of a Startech PCIe USB card, but that model doesn't come up, even at Startech's site. He must have read some other numbers on the card.

https://discourse.ardour.org/t/behri...d-ardour/899490

Edit: I kept searching and it turns out the PCIe USB card he was using is made by Syba. Startech had some similar model numbers which made me believe it was one of their cards. Anyway, this is the (looks discontinued) card he claims to be able to run the next smaller buffer size vs his on-board USB ports.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/SYBA-IO-C...etail/39809153
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