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Old 04-05-2011, 10:57 AM   #1
Dannii
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Default Classic progressive rock - REAPER style. Sneak preview of my newest song.

31st May, 2011: Major update to this topic. The song is now written and recorded in it's entirety BUT I STILL NEED A GOOD FEMALE VOCALIST!!

Please note: Old links to the previews of this when it was a work in progress will no longer work. I have removed them from my server.

For the last few months, I've been working on a new prog rock song called 'Narrow is the Way' for the Judgement Day album. This one is a bit of an epic at 14 minutes long and has multiple sections with varying themes.


After two and a half years seeking a female lead vocalist for AusDisciples Band, I have yet to find one. Just finding other committed Christians to fellowship with is a tough enough task these days, let alone one who can sing AND one who is reasonably close AND one who likes AusDisciples Band style!!!!

>>> I am still looking for a good female vocalist. If you believe you fit the bill, PLEASE let me know!!! <<<

All my previous attempts to lay down my own vocals have lead me to believe that I am a LONG WAY from being a singer!!! However, I figured this time I'd lay down a rough vocal track for this song just to give any potential vocalist an idea of where the lyrics fit in this song.
I prayed that if it was Jesus' will that He give me the ability to get something usable recorded and it seems He has indeed given me a voice that can actually be somewhat useful!!! Praise You Jesus!


Here's a bit more information about the other parts in this song....

The song opens with some scriptures that are very appropriate for the times we are living in. Clearly, Jesus is not far from His return!!
I used our street preaching megaphone (or bullhorn as they are also known) for the scripture reading.
The synth sounds are from my Yamaha SY77 and the guitar sound is from my AC30 Amplug. Bass was played on my Ibanez SR400 (used throughout this song).

The first sung section features Wurlitzer piano and synth parts under the vocal choruses are again from my SY77. My friend Mark Pearse is playing the sax parts between the verses and choruses.

For the guitar solo in the middle, I dug out an old wah pedal I've had lying around for years and plugged it in to see if it still works. To my delight, it works perfectly and sounds great so I used it. I also used two of my Vox Amplugs for this sound (AC30 and Lead).
The synth parts near the end of the solo are from my Roland Juno 6 and Mark added some sax to give this section a splash of colour.

The end section (verse three onwards) makes extensive use of my Hammond and it's Leslie and Mark laid down a really nice Saxophone solo for the outro. I also added some more synth parts from my SY77 under the vocal choruses.

Everything was recorded and mixed in REAPER v4 in my studio and at this stage, aside from the sax, I'm playing all the instruments (drums, bass, Wurlitzer piano, Hammond organ, analog and digital synths, guitar and vocals).


Here's a few photo's from the recording and mix sessions:


Mark during the Sax recording session.
Microphones used are AKG C414eb (with CK12 capsule) for direct sound and Rode NT2a pair in Blumlein configuration for room sound.




The lead guitar sound came from two Vox Amplugs and my wah pedal. Signal chain is thus:
guitar -> Vox Lead -> wah -> Vox AC30 -> Mackie HiZ input -> REAPER




My axes and keyboard rig.
The Hammond sound signal chain is thus:
Yamaha SY77 Hammond patch (my creation) -> Zoom 9150 tube preamp -> Hammond Leslie cab -> RodeNT2a x2 -> Mackie Onyx pre's -> FireWire -> REAPER




Me at my Roland V-Kit.
Signal chain is thus:
TMC-6 -> TD12 -> TD20 -> Motu Midi Timepiece AV -> REAPER -> Superior Drummer 2





The mix area.
This is a reasonably early shot of the mix. It grew somewhat to around 100 channels for the final mix. In this photo from top to bottom:
TC Electronic D-Two stereo delay
Lexicon PCM41 digital delay
Behringer Ultracurve used here as 2buss RTA
REAPER V4 using my custom Neve, Calrec, Bob Katz theme
Nintendo "Chef" Game and Watch which I've had since 1981
Motu Midi Timepiece AV
AKG K240M headphones
CMLabs MotorMate/MotorMix control surfaces
Mackie Onyx 1640 desk with Firewire option




Another shot of the mics during the sax session.
In the background, top to bottom:
Frostwave Quad midi-cv converter
Roland System 700 analog sequencer
Roland System 100 analog synthesizer
Hammond organ with Leslie cabinet




Narrow is the Way - Lyrics

Intro
Luke 17
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Matthew 24
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Verse 1
Is there even one?
A single, willing one?
There must be more than one.
Who’ll follow the Risen Son.

Sax Solo

Chorus
Two thousand years of old,
A man it was foretold,
Would walk upon on this earth,
God with us through birth.
Jesus, Emmanuel!
Jesus Christ!
Lord of Lords!
Emmanuel!

Sax Solo

Repeat Chorus
Jesus, Emmanuel!
Jesus Christ!
Lord of Lords!
Emmanuel!

Verse 2
Is there even one?
A single, willing one?
A voice in the wilderness.
Empowered by the One professed.

Have you heeded the Son,
Who calls His chosen ones?
To cry, “make a straight path for the Lord.
Who comes again with a sword.”

Chorus
Two thousand years have passed,
The time is here at last,
The One who we proclaim’s,
About to come again!
Jesus, King of kings!
Jesus Christ!
Lord of lords!
To Him we sing!

Sax Solo

Repeat Chorus
Jesus, King of kings!
Jesus Christ!
Lord of lords!
To Him we sing!

Verse 3
When it all comes down on you?
What are you going to do?
Will you wander lost, deep in despair?
Or will you turn to the One who can save you?

Chorus 3
Through Jesus Christ alone,
To the one who has overcome,
Redemption from the pit of Hell,
Forever with the Son.

Don’t come along for a free ride,
It will cost you everything,
To follow the One who can save you,
From death’s eternal sting.

Verse 4
Enter in at the strait gate,
For wide is the gate, and broad is the way,
That leads to destruction,
(spoken) And many there be which go in thereat:

Because
Strait is the gate,
And narrow is the way,
That leads unto life,
(spoken) Few there be that find it.


Chorus 4
Don’t come along for a free ride,
It will cost you everything,
To follow the One who can save you,
From death’s eternal sting.

Through Jesus Christ alone,
To the one who has overcome,
Redemption from the pit of Hell,
Forever with the Son.

Spoken
Jesus Christ is the way,
He is the truth and the life,
In Him alone is salvation,
And eternal life.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
For the last few months, I've been working on a new prog rock song for my latest album and figured I'd share some sections of it as a work in progress.
This one is a bit of an epic at 14 minutes long and has multiple sections with varying themes. This snippet I am sharing here is the middle section and part of the ending.

A few days ago, I dug out an old wah pedal I've had lying around for years and plugged it in to see if it still works. To my delight, it works perfectly and sounds great so I used it on the guitar solo for the middle section of this song.

The first part of the end section (included in this preview) is still very much an unfinished work. I have lyrics to write for it and a friend of mine is coming over on the 16th (April) to lay down some sax. This section makes extensive use of my Hammond and it's Leslie.

Everything was recorded and mixed in REAPER v4 alpha in my studio and at this stage, I'm playing all the instruments (drums, bass, Wurlitzer piano, Hammond organ, analog keys and guitar).


Here's the first sneak peak preview of "Narrow is the Path".

No prizes for guessing the bands I grew up listening to!!



.
sorry, Dannii

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Old 04-05-2011, 11:06 AM   #3
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sorry, Dannii

access denied...
Ditto here too.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:11 AM   #4
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Bah!!! I had it in a password protected directory on my server!! Of course, it worked for me because I was logged in to it when I made this post. Doh!

Try it now guys.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:21 AM   #5
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Very cool & sounds great! Lets see I hear Pink Floyd, Yes, Zeppelin, ELP.... Very nice.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:49 AM   #6
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What a journey!

Dannii, this is a wonderful piece of work right here. The playing, the flow, the recording, the mix, the sounds... all fantastic. I'm so very impressed right now. The keys are especially rich.

I'm going to say Genesis, Floyd, Zappa and Chicago.
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:33 PM   #7
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Thank you so much guys! You're both pretty spot on with the bands too. There's a few that haven't been mentioned yet but I'll see if anyone mentions them before I divulge more.

Kindafishy, I was aiming for a Zappaesque approach to the wah in this one. The way he used wah as a tone shaping tool rather than an all out effect is what I was going for here.

I was also experimenting with a new mic technique for my Leslie cabinet too. On this recording, I put two large diaphragm condensers inside the cabinet at 90 degrees apart, set to cardioid pattern, facing the center of the rotor. The delay was added at the input to the Leslie rather than in the mix. That way, the Leslie throws the delays around in the stereo mix and modulates them which adds a really nice subtle fatness and width to the Hammond sound.
I also put pop filters in front of the mics this time to stop the wind noise from the rotors getting into the mics when spinning on fast speed. That meant I didn't need to roll the low end off as steeply in the mix which allowed more low end fullness from the overdriven tubes to be reproduced faithfully.
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:51 PM   #8
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I love what you have there.
Great sound and music!!
I am probably way off the mark but to me this reminds me in some ways of the great music of Procol Harum.

Very nice!!!
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WynD View Post
Great sound and music!!

Very nice!!!
+1

I have yet to record anything over 5 minutes long.
Maybe if I hang out here long enuf!

Cheers!
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:36 PM   #10
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Dannii - had this playing on a loop for the past hour (and going strong) as I've been doing some computer maintenance etc. What can I say but, I'm hooked! Keep up the good work sister. SDG!

Kyle
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:58 PM   #11
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I think it's great piece of progressive rock.Well played and constructed but can't agree with other posters about the mix.

On my monitors it's very low and dull almost opaque.As I don't have access to the individual tracks I've done the best I can to bring it up and get some ambience.That organ really comes out now near the end

Remastered @ 192K.As always if you don't like it I'll remove it and just ignore me

http://www.mediafire.com/file/3263se.../Narrow192.mp3
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Old 04-05-2011, 04:16 PM   #12
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Nice song! Listening on phones the low end is a tad flabby and I have to agree with Shep about the veiled high end. As well the kick and bass should be alot tighter. I'd like to hear a more present snare sound but that's just taste.Good stuff very Floyd!!
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Old 04-05-2011, 04:57 PM   #13
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Nice jam...

I agree though that the mix is missing presence and clarity. I think it is there, it just needs to be unleashed. Otherwise, its right up my alley.

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Old 04-05-2011, 11:28 PM   #14
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Like it!

Very well done and played. Maybe it's missing some high end, but this way it sounds very 70's

The bands you've grown up listening to are the same I love, I guess

The piece sounds very Floyd (Meddle/Pompei era) and thanks God there's still someone loving (and composing) this kind of music. Long live prog/classic rock!
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:04 AM   #15
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Had another few listens...

I agree that the bass is just a little flubby. I like the top end just like it is, personally. Right now, listening to this, I'm getting the sense of sitting somewhere in a stadium watching a band jam. I think the top end the way it stands contributes to this vibe. IMO. FWIW. YMMV.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:56 AM   #16
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Cool tune, love the guitar work!

The bass sounds a bit undefined and loose to my ears, especially in the transients, but that could just be what you're after with this genre/tune?

The drums sound like they're in the forefront, not quite in the same space as the rest of the instruments, which all have a certain depth that the drums don't have, especially the cymbals that sound hard-panned to the RT of center. Maybe create a "room-mic" reverb bus (tracks) to apply some gentle space to the cymbals? Maybe I'm just used to natural drum bleed, but if I picture this using my mind's eye, all the other instruments besides the drums are in the same space, while the drums are in the room with me right in front of me.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:24 AM   #17
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Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to listen and offer your feedback and suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WynD View Post
I love what you have there.
Great sound and music!!
I am probably way off the mark but to me this reminds me in some ways of the great music of Procol Harum.

Very nice!!!
There's definitely some Procol Harum in my upbringing. In fact, 'Whiter Shade of Pale" brings back many memories of my teenage years. We used to play that song in our High-school concert band.
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Originally Posted by hwhalen View Post
+1

I have yet to record anything over 5 minutes long.
Maybe if I hang out here long enuf!

Cheers!
lol
I'm going the other way these days. Songs less than five minutes are the exception here!!! Doesn't make mainstream radio play much of a probability, but then I'm not really aiming for that anyway. Although airplay of the single we're releasing would be nice..... Oh wait, even that is five and a half minutes long!
Quote:
Originally Posted by plgrmsprgrs View Post
Dannii - had this playing on a loop for the past hour (and going strong) as I've been doing some computer maintenance etc. What can I say but, I'm hooked! Keep up the good work sister. SDG!

Kyle
Wow!! Looping for an hour!! That must mean you really do like it!! Cheers bro!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheppola View Post
I think it's great piece of progressive rock.Well played and constructed but can't agree with other posters about the mix.

On my monitors it's very low and dull almost opaque.As I don't have access to the individual tracks I've done the best I can to bring it up and get some ambience.That organ really comes out now near the end

Remastered @ 192K.As always if you don't like it I'll remove it and just ignore me

http://www.mediafire.com/file/3263se.../Narrow192.mp3
Thanks heaps for taking the time to do this Shep.
I've approached this song completely differently to what I typically do. I'm aiming to really minimise my use of EQ when I'm mixing in order to preserve phase response and transients as much as possible to keep everything cleaner. This upload is still very much a work in progress and is by no means a final mix. There's still quite a bit of work left with vocals and saxophone parts to record but your input is certainly food for thought and very much appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henge View Post
Nice song! Listening on phones the low end is a tad flabby and I have to agree with Shep about the veiled high end. As well the kick and bass should be alot tighter. I'd like to hear a more present snare sound but that's just taste.Good stuff very Floyd!!
Thanks Henge.
About the kick and bass... are you talking about the sound being tighter or the timing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Nice jam...

I agree though that the mix is missing presence and clarity. I think it is there, it just needs to be unleashed. Otherwise, its right up my alley.

Karbo
Cheers Karbo. As mentioned above, this is completely unmastered and the mix isn't yet complete. I'll probably add a little sparkle in the mastering stage when the whole album is ready.
Quote:
Originally Posted by l3g10n3 View Post
Like it!

Very well done and played. Maybe it's missing some high end, but this way it sounds very 70's

The bands you've grown up listening to are the same I love, I guess

The piece sounds very Floyd (Meddle/Pompei era) and thanks God there's still someone loving (and composing) this kind of music. Long live prog/classic rock!
Prog rock is very much in my bones l3g10n3. I love listening to and writing music that is more of a journey rather than a quick listen. I'd love to think that this will inspire people to find a comfy chair and really experience the music. That is becoming a rare thing in these days of ipods and rushing about here and there. Perhaps there's still enough people out there who remember the days of unwrapping a new vinyl LP, sitting back enjoying the artwork and being immersed in the music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindafishy View Post
Had another few listens...

I agree that the bass is just a little flubby. I like the top end just like it is, personally. Right now, listening to this, I'm getting the sense of sitting somewhere in a stadium watching a band jam. I think the top end the way it stands contributes to this vibe. IMO. FWIW. YMMV.
That's pretty much the vibe I'm going for, Kindafishy. I'm after a 70's feel somewhat akin to Genesis in the 'Mama Tour' era.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. moon View Post
Cool tune, love the guitar work!

The bass sounds a bit undefined and loose to my ears, especially in the transients, but that could just be what you're after with this genre/tune?

The drums sound like they're in the forefront, not quite in the same space as the rest of the instruments, which all have a certain depth that the drums don't have, especially the cymbals that sound hard-panned to the RT of center. Maybe create a "room-mic" reverb bus (tracks) to apply some gentle space to the cymbals? Maybe I'm just used to natural drum bleed, but if I picture this using my mind's eye, all the other instruments besides the drums are in the same space, while the drums are in the room with me right in front of me.
Hmmm... interesting thoughts there Mr. Moon. I actually have used the same reverb on the kit that I've used on the rest of the mix but I like your suggestion of adding a little more to the overheads. I might give that a try. I reckon it'll work well.

As far as the low end is concerned, I am very much after a 'round' and 'fat' sound rather than a 'crisp' and 'defined' sound. I'm aiming to create the warmth of analog gear played back on good vinyl.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:31 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
Thanks Henge.
About the kick and bass... are you talking about the sound being tighter or the timing?
The timimg could be tighter.I guess if the track was cut all together then bleed would be a problem. If not, personally, I'd do some surgery! LOL.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:41 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by henge View Post
The timimg could be tighter.I guess if the track was cut all together then bleed would be a problem. If not, personally, I'd do some surgery! LOL.
Bleed is no problem here. I played all the instruments on this (one at a time obviously!!) so I could do some tweaking. REAPER makes this kind of surgery really fast and easy with splitting and alt-dragging (slipping).
In fact, the entire middle section of this song was the result of recording a completely improvised part on Wurlitzer piano. The Wurli part in this mix is the original improvisation and there were some timing issues in the last part of the guitar section just before the Hammond section. I used the 'split and slip' technique here to tidy up the Wurli timing which I actually played to a click track. When I'm improvising though, I find it really easy to get carried away and drift off the click, which is exactly what I did this time too!
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:50 AM   #20
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Best way to get a good analog bass tone is to record through Ampeg bass amps and 24-track 2" tape, IMHO! ...and then press it to vinyl!



All kidding aside, if that is the tone your after, then it's cool! Sounds like we just have different tastes in music, which is what helps make this world interesting.

As far as drums go...

It's been my experience that cymbals are a royal PITA ...not that an entire drumkit is a piece of cake, but unless your going for one of those Beatle-esque "hard pan" type mixes, cymbals pretty much wash across an entire stereo field, especially the transient hits, then they "wash down" or dissipate to the location of the cymbal itself.

I found that in the case of our drummer and room, even if a crash cymbal is physically placed 100% to the RT side of the drummer, you still get a huge transient hit on the (opposite) LEFT side, but then it dissapates toward the location of the cymbal as it dissipates...

Keep in mind that I could be completely wrong. I'm used to panning the drums opposite to how you do it, I use out drummer's perspective with HiHats on the Left, so I could just not be used to hearing them on the Rt side.

Jam on!

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Hmmm... interesting thoughts there Mr. Moon. I actually have used the same reverb on the kit that I've used on the rest of the mix but I like your suggestion of adding a little more to the overheads. I might give that a try. I reckon it'll work well.

As far as the low end is concerned, I am very much after a 'round' and 'fat' sound rather than a 'crisp' and 'defined' sound. I'm aiming to create the warmth of analog gear played back on good vinyl.
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:46 AM   #21
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Danni,

You mentioned the wah wah pedal.

Strangely enough, I watched a documentary the other night on Vimeo on the story of the wah wah pedal. Sounds a bit esoteric doesn't it? Believe it or not, it was really good --- tracing the invention and history on both sides of the Atlantic of the infamous wah wah.

Like many a good thing, its invention was an accident, when Vox of England was bought by Warwick electronics(owners of Thomas Organ Company)in the States and the American Vox was to be re-designed from a tube unit to solid state transistorized setup in order to save money.

A junior engineer was the bright spark and when the head of the company heard a sax being played through the pedal, he loved it and ordered it into production but strictly for wind instruments.

The name was soon changed to the Cry Baby and was also made in Italy as Vox.
Soon all Cry Babies and Vox were made there.

I suppose the wah wah pedal really took off in a mega way when Hendrix used it in such a mind blowing fashion in the 60's.

The story went on at length but was never boring.

For anyone who is interested to watch this hour long production:

http://vimeo.com/20902369
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:58 AM   #22
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Best way to get a good analog bass tone is to record through Ampeg bass amps and 24-track 2" tape, IMHO! ...and then press it to vinyl!

Ha!!! No argument there! Ampegs absolutely RULE for this style. The bass player in a band I used to play in had a HUGE Ampeg rig (4x10 and 1x18 in one cab) and played a Rickenbacker stereo bass (two outputs fed into separate channels on the head) through it and it sounded monstrous!
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All kidding aside, if that is the tone your after, then it's cool! Sounds like we just have different tastes in music, which is what helps make this world interesting.

As far as drums go...

It's been my experience that cymbals are a royal PITA ...not that an entire drumkit is a piece of cake, but unless your going for one of those Beatle-esque "hard pan" type mixes, cymbals pretty much wash across an entire stereo field, especially the transient hits, then they "wash down" or dissipate to the location of the cymbal itself.

I found that in the case of our drummer and room, even if a crash cymbal is physically placed 100% to the RT side of the drummer, you still get a huge transient hit on the (opposite) LEFT side, but then it dissapates toward the location of the cymbal as it dissipates...

Keep in mind that I could be completely wrong. I'm used to panning the drums opposite to how you do it, I use out drummer's perspective with HiHats on the Left, so I could just not be used to hearing them on the Rt side.

Jam on!
My kit is actually set up symmetrically with the hi-hat in the middle. The ride is quite low and off to the right though so that's what you're hearing predominantly on the right.
That's all a bit of a moot point really because I'm triggering SD2 from the kit and I can place anything wherever I want. I do though, have the sounds positioned in SD2 to match the physical placement of my kit.
I did try adding some more verb to the overheads and that really makes a big difference, which I particularly like. Thanks for the feedback once again. I think you'll like the next mix better.
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Danni,

You mentioned the wah wah pedal.

Strangely enough, I watched a documentary the other night on Vimeo on the story of the wah wah pedal. Sounds a bit esoteric doesn't it? Believe it or not, it was really good --- tracing the invention and history on both sides of the Atlantic of the infamous wah wah.

Like many a good thing, its invention was an accident, when Vox of England was bought by Warwick electronics(owners of Thomas Organ Company)in the States and the American Vox was to be re-designed from a tube unit to solid state transistorized setup in order to save money.

A junior engineer was the bright spark and when the head of the company heard a sax being played through the pedal, he loved it and ordered it into production but strictly for wind instruments.

The name was soon changed to the Cry Baby and was also made in Italy as Vox.
Soon all Cry Babies and Vox were made there.

I suppose the wah wah pedal really took off in a mega way when Hendrix used it in such a mind blowing fashion in the 60's.

The story went on at length but was never boring.

For anyone who is interested to watch this hour long production:

http://vimeo.com/20902369
Now this is just too uncanny!!! I watched that very same doco just last week and that is actually what inspired me to dig out my wah pedal for this track!

....oh wait, wasn't that doco posted here on the forum somewhere? Perhaps that's why we both recently watched it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:08 AM   #23
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Whatever you do folks.... don't do the following!....

I was cleaning up one of my drives yesterday, deleting stuff I no longer need in order to free up some space. When I tried to delete an old video file, Windows popped up a message saying the file could not be deleted and suggested running chkdisk which seemed a little odd.
Well, I figured I'd run it and see what was making Windows so unhappy. But...... I didn't uncheck the 'fix errors automatically' checkbox beforehand..... BIG mistake!!!

Windows proceeded to check my drive and then attempted to fix the errors by deleting everything from the drive and altering the mft to comply with it's intrusion!!!! Thank you Micro$oft!! That is exactly what I wanted.... NOT!!!

My next move was to run Recuva and see if I could undelete this Micro$oft blunder. Well, the problem is that the mft was rewritten in the process and the directory structures for any deleted data had to be guessed by the recovery software..... which got it all wrong! Argh!! Thank you Bill Gates and co!

Fortunately, I did not lose anything critical in all this but it did delete my impulse files, Sampletank samples and SD2 libraries which is many gigabytes of data... Argh again!!!
I do have all of this data on a partition on my laptop so I'm currently in the process of copying it across to my studio rig via an external drive.

The bottom line.... NEVER trust chkdisk to correctly fix errors!! UNCHECK that tickbox BEFORE you run it!!


The greater question for me is what caused these errors? Is my hard drive dying or was this corruption from some other unknown cause?
The drive in question has four partitions. Two for dual boot OS, one for pagefile and one large partition for sample libraries, bounces and other general data. I ran chkdisk (with the fix errors box UNticked) on all the partitions on this disk and everything came up fine. Hmmmmm.....
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:28 AM   #24
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currently in the process of copying it across to my studio rig via an external drive.

The bottom line.... NEVER trust chkdisk to correctly fix errors!! UNCHECK that tickbox BEFORE you run it!!


The greater question for me is what caused these errors? Is my hard drive dying or was this corruption from some other unknown cause?
The drive in question has four partitions. Two for dual boot OS, one for pagefile and one large partition for sample libraries, bounces and other general data. I ran chkdisk (with the fix errors box UNticked) on all the partitions on this disk and everything came up fine. Hmmmmm.....
That scandisk fault has been there since win95!NEVER use the automatically fix option.

As for the reason it could be anything.A common cause is heat creep on the motherboard causing the RAM sticks to momentarily fault thus causing a registry fault.Windows has always been very very sensitive to registry faults.
With system still grounded but power off take out and clean RAM edge connectors with Isopropanol Switch cleaner and tissue or a clear alcohol.Also a pencil eraser can be used.Then reseat correctly.Also check all internal hardware connectors.

My WinXP cannot be destroyed as I can re-load mirrors of my 8 gig O/S partition in less than 10 mins from a USB flash stick as well as from my spare drive and backups of my projects etc.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...ghlight=maxtor


I also have a fully working WinXP pro system I can run from a USB flash stick,

http://wintoflash.com/home/en/

Therefore even a virus cannot touch me =)
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:44 AM   #25
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I'm leaning towards a hard drive error Shep. It was only a couple of months ago that I bought new RAM for this rig. When I added it, I reseated everything (graphics card, HDD connectors, existing and new RAM, mobo connectors, etc).

I'm going to run a disk check tomorrow using the Western Digital Data Lifeguard utility (my drives are all WD).
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:57 AM   #26
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Update 8th April - preview two.

I did a number of tweaks to this mix based upon some of the suggestions here guys. These are some of the tweaks....
  • Gentle high shelving boost on master buss EQ.
  • Added Rocket compressor to snare top mic and used parallel compression to bring out some presence.
  • Added some gentle compression to the inside kick mic to give it a little more definition in the mix.
  • Lifted the level of the outside kick mic to add warmth after tweaking the inside mic.
  • Added a slight bump to the top end and the low mids on the Wurlitzer piano (brings out some definition in the piano solo parts where there's no lead guitar).
  • Dropped the level of the overheads on the kit and boosted the room mics for a better sense of space around the kit.
  • Panned the ride cymbal to the center of the mix. Using SD2, I can do that. Try that with a traditional drum mix!!!
  • Tweaked the EQ on the guitar to add presence.


There's still one more major band influence in this song that nobody has mentioned yet. Any guesses?
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:01 PM   #27
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[B][COLOR="Red"]

There's still one more major band influence in this song that nobody has mentioned yet. Any guesses?
That could be a bigger list than you think.The organ at the end is pure John Lord Deep Purple but there's touches of King Crimson and therefore ELP as well ;-)
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:56 AM   #28
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That could be a bigger list than you think.The organ at the end is pure John Lord Deep Purple but there's touches of King Crimson and therefore ELP as well ;-)
Good point Shep. There's certainly some John Lord in my past and definitely some ELP too. I just couldn't bring myself to treating my Hammond the way those guys treated theirs though!!!

Then again, there's a VAST chasm between my budget and theirs!!

There's a King Crimson link for me with Gavin Harrison too. I did some photography for him a couple of years ago.
Here's a couple of my photo's.....





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Old 04-08-2011, 10:15 AM   #29
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Hi Danni,

Sounds great! Only thing that sticks out for me on the first listen is that some of the toms are really hard-panned to the L or R, which again is not very realistic from a listening perspective. Maybe try softening the pan a bit or add a mono room mic track if you'd like it to sound more realistic. Drums really tend to bleed all over the place, even in drum rooms, so if you hear a tom completely isolated on the L side without some kind of bleed on the R, it sounds unnatural ...but, I should say that if that's what your trying to accomplish, then forget what I said.

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Old 04-08-2011, 08:47 PM   #30
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I'm with you on the tom panning Mr. Moon. I do have a mono room mic in the mix but most of the definition for the toms is coming from the direct mics. I'm going to alter their pan width (yay for REAPER width control) in the next mix. I have the Tom direct mics bussed so that will be a simple tweak.

The other thing that is still bugging me is the ride cymbal. In SD2, just like in any physical drum mix, the position of the ride cymbal is fixed by it's physical position between the overheads. I got around that limitation by creating a second instance of SD2 with only the ride cymbal enabled, triggered that from the main midi track and reversed the panning. This fixed the position of the ride to center mix but it has created one more problem. There's now no real stereo field around the ride and it sounds unnatural.
I'm going to try another experiment and copy the midi track to the second instance of SD2 with only the ride notes, remove the ride notes from the original SD2 track and play with stereo panning on the ride. That will give me independent stereo control over the ride.

One more thing, this mix still needs more overall top end. I added more but on further listening, the tweak was too subtle.
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:22 AM   #31
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OK folks, here's the third preview of the middle section of this song. I've done a ton of tweaks to the mix and am much happier with how it is coming together now. Thank you all for your invaluable feedback and suggestions.

The previous two mixes have been done to K-12 levels but for this one, I opted to drop the level to K-14 and bring back a little more punch (turn your monitors up 2dB for this mix if you're comparing to previous versions).

I've updated the link in my first post with the new download.

Here's a short list of just a few of the tweaks in this version...
  • Pulled back master level 2dB for added headroom
  • MAJOR change to master buss processing with MUCH better top end
  • Reigned in tom panning and added some more room sound
  • Fixed stereo image on ride cymbal
  • Lifted ride cymbal level and reduced crashes and splashes
  • Added more room sound to overall drum mix
  • Fixed annoying snare buzz on bottom snare drum mic
  • Rolled off top end on lowest floor toms to add fullness and remove "clickiness" <---(is that actually a word?!!)
  • Added HPF on floor toms to prevent them competing with the bass guitar
  • Lowered the midrange boost frequency slightly on the inside kick mic

Let me know your thoughts guys.

Oh, and there's still a specific band that nobody has mentioned yet that has been a major influence on my musical style.....

Hint: Do DREAMERS really play Wurlitzer piano? (Now that's gotta be too easy!!)
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:00 AM   #32
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"clickiness" <---(is that actually a word?!!
Yep! "The state or condition of being clicky."
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:02 AM   #33
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Supertramp?!
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:28 AM   #34
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Supertramp?!


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Old 04-10-2011, 10:36 AM   #35
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Is that a cat, or a purse?
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Old 04-10-2011, 10:43 AM   #36
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Here's a little eye candy from the recording and mix sessions....


The lead guitar sound came from two Vox Amplugs and my wah pedal. Signal chain is thus:
guitar -> Vox Lead -> wah -> Vox AC30 -> Mackie HiZ input -> REAPER




My axes and keyboard rig.
The Hammond sound signal chain is thus:
Yamaha SY77 Hammond patch (my creation) -> Zoom 9150 tube preamp -> Hammond Leslie cab -> RodeNT2a x2 -> Mackie Onyx pre's -> FireWire -> REAPER




Me at my Roland V-Kit.
Signal chain is thus:
TMC-6 -> TD12 -> TD20 -> Motu Midi Timepiece AV -> REAPER -> Superior Drummer 2





Last, but certainly not least, the mix in REAPER V4 alpha62b.

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Old 04-12-2011, 11:14 AM   #37
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Everyone's gone quiet on me!!! I'm curious to hear what you guys think of the new mix. Your suggestions so far have really helped me tweak this.
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:01 AM   #38
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Aaaaachoo!!! ....oops, 'scuse me!
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:37 PM   #39
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Great stuff Dannii - I like it very much!

I cant get the 2nd mix, I get this..
"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

As for inluences, I can hear Floyd, Jon Lord, Tangerine Dream, Pendragon.

Keep it up - long live prog!
God bless,
Paul.
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:09 AM   #40
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Fantastic!
And impressive studio pictures too!
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