2 questions about track volume .......

[sjs94704]

1. For my vocal I am using Delay, Room, Plate, Hall, Chorus and Reverb together to get the sound I want and am happy with the results. I get it that you all say there are a million ways to do stuff, but, is a limiter typically used on Fx tracks as well as tracks with actual audio items on them to prevent clipping? Or, for Fx tracks, would it be best to simply adjust the volume?
2. When I clip, let's just use an example of +1.5. When I go to adjust the volume to compensate, is there a typical way to adjust the volume? For example, lowering the volume the 1.5 plus lowering it just a bit more for some head room? Or, how would YOU do it?

Adjusting the volume properly like this is one of the next things I am just wanting to learn to do correctly.

[enroe]

1. It is always better to "simply just adjust the volume"!

2.a. Always lower the volume!

2.b. Inside Reaper (and inside any other DAW) there is no clipping
possible. So you can let the signal go into the red area, it
doesn't clip. (You might avoid the red area for psychological
reasons).

2.c. The only place you have to attend is the master-out. Here you
have to avoid clipping! Because here the signal leaves Reaper.

[sjs94704]

Thanks .....

[serr]

The very first step with any mix is to set the volume of your monitor speakers intentionally. So you're not doing stuff like turning something up too loud in the mix because you accidentally had your monitor volume too low, for example.

I'll set the level of that mix element where I want to hear it in the balance - meters or red lights be damned! Now if a red light is lighting up and/or I hear a crackle from that (in an extreme example), then I'll roll up my sleeves and address that. Maybe a limiter. Maybe there's a bass thump to clean up. Could be lots of things.

Sometimes with certain fx, you end up distorting or slamming something. Don't mind that too much. If you need to put a limiter on some fx track, for example, to get the sound right. I've made reverb elements before where you want to squeeze it down because you don't want the close up dynamics to pump the reverb.

Proper monitoring volume.
Make the balance you want to hear.
Address problems as they come up and only if they come up.

[sjs94704]

I just got some new monitor speakers:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tudio-monitors

As far as the volume, I have the volume knob on the speakers turned to approx. 40-45 degrees .......

What I did not know until I learned in this thread is that the only volume to really care about is the MASTER track. I only say this because I am self-taught and have pretty much relied on YouTube for information and either I never found a video that explained this, OR, I did not understand what they were really trying to say, but, ..... whatever, I know now. Not to say that I will just let things go and do whatever from now on, but, I have learned a lot in this thread!

[RobertP]

Originally Posted by serr

The very first step with any mix is to set the volume of your monitor speakers intentionally.

Do you set this within Reaper or something else .. vlc maybe?
How does that work with a level of a piece of external hardware like pedals, FX etc?

This has always confused me.

I was told a good few years back, to put a music cd to play through your monitor speakers (not in Reaper) and set the volume to a comfortable level, bearing mind that you are mixing, not pleasure listening, then mark where they are and leave alone.

I was also told at some point to set monitor speaker volume at max, then don't touch, and then do all volume levels for mixing on track faders - always left me feeling edgy...

Then I record in Reaper at -18 on the track fader and leave the master fader at 0.00. - there is a Kenny G video about this which I found helpful. When mixing, I just play and adjust with track faders to suit my ears. Obviously there are a lot of other factors but basically I set the monitor levels then don't touch, set the master fader at 0.00 then don't touch.

Thinking about what was said here about master volume and clipping, I would be inclined to leave the master at 0.00, highlight all tracks and bring the faders down till the clipping was gone. Only then, I guess, would I turn my monitor volume up to suit.

[serr]

I didn't mean anything cryptic or complex by that.
I mean simply set your listening volume.

Longer version:
Don't use an extreme volume war CD of course! Listen to a few things to get your bearings to set your listening volume. Now you can start mixing.

If you were to grab one of those CD masters with the volume hyped up 12db and hit play, you'd jump to grab the volume and turn it down. If you tried to start mixing with your monitor volume that low, you'd get pretty confused right away! You'd be hitting red lights and everything would still be too quiet.

So, it's kind of a Dr. Obvious comment on the one hand but you can see how easy it would be to make that mistake at the same time.

You can (and people do) get scientific about calibrating your listening level. But you can get started by listening to a few of your classier mastered favorite albums.

If you only have mp3s made from volume war CDs in your collection... Well, this could still be confusing.
Some numbers:
Mix to -13 LUFS. If you want to reference a CD to compare your mix to, lower it's volume until it only hits -13 LUFS if it is louder to begin with.
You know how graphic artists work on a large screen and then shrink the picture down to an icon size after instead of trying to draw at icon image size? Maybe think of it like that.


Back to the original question:

Assuming things are under control with the overall mix and volume. If you have some effect track that hits peaks when you turn it up to where you want to hear it in the mix balance... What I said earlier.

PS. Apologies if that aimed at a beginner kind of monitor levels comment is obvious and unwarranted!

[RobertP]

I did think you were not being cryptic or complex serr, but it led me to a 'hang on a minute' moment 'do I really get that or did I assume I did?'

I realise these sorts of issues are givens really and, frankly, I didn't give it much thought for a good while when learning Reaper and recording and mixing. But we do move onward and upward ...

Anyhow, there is no need for you to apologise for making things simple and clear and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. It's down to members like yourself that makes this forum so damn good (with or without a lounge).

I am revamping/redecorating my music room at the moment so all my gear is stashed safely away in a cupboard. When I get to put it all back together I will have a go at using your LUFS advice.

Sincerely, many, many thanks.

P.S. You said listen to "classier mastered favorite albums." Not sure I have any of these. Care to make a few suggestions?

[serr]

I suspect that all the volume war CDs mess with people who are just starting out trying to mix. You see forum questions all the time like "How do I make this loud *like it's supposed to be*?" So I bring this up all the time. Hindsight and all but if you only have VW CDs in your collection and that's all you've ever heard, you kind of assume they are at the "official volume level". Then you try to mix... Red lights going off all over the place and it's still too quiet and anemic! WTF?

Turn your monitors up and your ears will tell you to turn something down before a light lights up and you can just mix.

Examples?
Anything that doesn't hit over -12 LUFS.

24 bit download and bluray disc editions are often not hyped. Thus classy.
CD editions are often hyped. Treble blasted and volume war loud. Trashy.
There are of course outliers - classy CDs and trashy blurays. But that's a good telltale most of the time.

[DVDdoug]

When I clip, let's just use an example of +1.5.

In general you shouldn't be mixing anywhere that hot. But as has been said, REAPER itself won't clip so the only danger is clipping your DAC (if you are playing back at "full digital volume") or clipping your final rendered file.


When you are happy with your mix you can render to 32-bit floating-point WAV (which also won't clip), and then re-open and normalize and/or do whatever "mastering" you want. (It's easier to normalize the file as a whole than to carefully watch your levels during mixing.)


At the mastering stage you can check & adjust your LUFS and LRA (loudness range) if desired. (Using level adjustment, compression, limiting, etc.).

As far as the volume, I have the volume knob on the speakers turned to approx. 40-45 degrees ...….

That doesn't tell you much about the loudness. If you want to "get serious" you can get an SPL meter and maybe check-out Bob Katz' K-System which (I think) recommends an average monitoring level of 85dB SPL.


Not everything needs to be at 85dB. A lot of "work" can be done at lower levels but when you're "getting serious" about the mix (and maybe getting close to the end) it's good to have a standardized level. And, you might want to listen to some "details" louder (typically with headphones).

P.S. You said listen to "classier mastered favorite albums." Not sure I have any of these. Care to make a few suggestions?

Choose something you like in a similar genre. Then the idea is mostly to "keep your ears & brain calibrated" rather than to "exactly copy" the sound.


And as an amateur, you may not get the same loudness as a professional mastering engineer with years of experience and maybe better tools. You may not want as much compression as the commercial releases, and it's usually best to go-for the best sound rather than the most loudness (even if the pros are over-doing the compression).

[sjs94704]

Thanks everyone for all your input.

Just to be clear about one point..... When I used the example of +1.5, it was just that, an example. I just picked a number without intending to represent anything more than to have a number to use for my question.