Old 07-13-2019, 09:03 AM   #41
Billy M
Human being with feelings
 
Billy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 613
Default

I'm about to do a new build and am leaning towards the Ryzen 3700x right now. I am still considering the i7 8700k but reviews have swayed me more towards the 3700x. Single thread performance seems to be close to equal between the two and the 3700x is better for multi-core performance (more cores and threads). I'm still going to wait a few more weeks as things settle down, read more reviews and make a decision.

DAWBENCH review from yesterday:

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2019/07...-magic-number/
__________________
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” - George Carlin

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks
Billy M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 09:17 AM   #42
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

3700X is the one I'm sort of zeroing in on as well. Demand seems high right now coz I've been seeing prices all over the map.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 09:37 AM   #43
Billy M
Human being with feelings
 
Billy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 613
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
3700X is the one I'm sort of zeroing in on as well. Demand seems high right now coz I've been seeing prices all over the map.
Yeah, they seem to be sold out, not available yet or there is price gouging when you find them - another reason to wait for a while before buying. I believe the MSRP on the 3700x is $329.00. Anything higher is gouging.
__________________
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” - George Carlin

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks
Billy M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 10:15 AM   #44
Billy M
Human being with feelings
 
Billy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 613
Default Another review

https://techreport.com/review/34672/...cpus-reviewed/
__________________
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” - George Carlin

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks
Billy M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 10:17 AM   #45
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy M View Post
Yeah, they seem to be sold out, not available yet or there is price gouging when you find them - another reason to wait for a while before buying. I believe the MSRP on the 3700x is $329.00. Anything higher is gouging.
Yesterday I saw a price on Amazon over $700 but a few hours later it was gone. Today Amazon has them for $399, but I have also seen them as low as $329 always sold out though.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 11:22 AM   #46
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,255
Default

Yea Ryzen's great. Best part for me is that I can have Reaper running maxed out an still do five other things without any slowdown.

It's much cheaper and I think basically it's best for multi-tasking, though Intel is still better at single-core tasks.

Also hear that AMD is not [as] affected by Spectre and those other nasty core vulnerabilities.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:13 PM   #47
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

I got a friend to reserve a 3700X at a Microcenter when it came in, buy and ship it to me (I'm in Canada). So they're possible to get but it might require a bit of patience at the moment.

I know Glen is going to ask so I'll just say it: I'm pairing it with a Gigabyte X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING board. I decided to stick with X470 chipset since X570 and Linux at the moment are a bit questionable, plus I don't see much about the X570 specifically that concerns me. The ATX X470 boards such as this sometimes have the Realtek ALC1220 and I'm looking forward to trying that. Currently I'm getting great quality audio with an Asus Xonar DX, and I'm guessing the ALC1220 will sound approximately the same but possibly be possible of lower latency.

And yeah I read about the ALC1220 possibly needing some "fix" to make it behave properly with current Linux kernels. I have some pages bookmarked just in case.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:19 PM   #48
foxAsteria
Human being with feelings
 
foxAsteria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,255
Default

Worth noting that my x370 board I'm using with 2700 still has the old pci slots and I tested rme cards in both the pci express and pci 2.1 slots with equal perfomance.

If you don't already have a great audio device, the rme pci 2.1 cards are still being made and are still cheaper than the new express ones. Maybe it's an obsolete tech in other areas, but still quite useful for audio work, apparently.
__________________
foxyyymusic
foxAsteria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:43 PM   #49
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
I got a friend to reserve a 3700X at a Microcenter when it came in, buy and ship it to me (I'm in Canada). So they're possible to get but it might require a bit of patience at the moment.

I know Glen is going to ask so I'll just say it: I'm pairing it with a Gigabyte X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING board. I decided to stick with X470 chipset since X570 and Linux at the moment are a bit questionable, plus I don't see much about the X570 specifically that concerns me. The ATX X470 boards such as this sometimes have the Realtek ALC1220 and I'm looking forward to trying that. Currently I'm getting great quality audio with an Asus Xonar DX, and I'm guessing the ALC1220 will sound approximately the same but possibly be possible of lower latency.

And yeah I read about the ALC1220 possibly needing some "fix" to make it behave properly with current Linux kernels. I have some pages bookmarked just in case.
What is the issue with the 570X chipset and Linux?

If I want to keep using one of my old Delta 2496 cards for system audio like I'm doing now, I would have to go with a 470X board to get any old school PCI slots, but then going with 470X would also mean no PCIe 4.0, which might be nice down the road. The 570x chipset runs hotter though and needs active cooling, which I don't like.

I'm going to let the dust settle a bit before zeroing in on a specific mobo. Still have a few months before I take my last Windows 7 machine down and move my Linux DAW into that slot forcing me to buy a new machine to use as the DAW.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 12:57 PM   #50
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
What is the issue with the 570X chipset and Linux?

If I want to keep using one of my old Delta 2496 cards for system audio like I'm doing now, I would have to go with a 470X board to get any old school PCI slots, but then going with 470X would also mean no PCIe 4.0, which might be nice down the road.
Some people have reported more current kernels have issues booting with the X570 chipsets. There aren't a lot of people reporting on the X570 chipset use with Linux at the moment (Linux usually lags behind a bit compared to Windows on this sort of thing) so I'm not going to go down that path.

I don't see myself needing PCIe 4 for anything, for years. I can cross that bridge if/when necessary. The board I chose only costs around $130 anyway. Swapping a board years down the road, if I get to keep everything else the same, isn't a problem for me in the slightest.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:21 PM   #51
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Some people have reported more current kernels have issues booting with the X570 chipsets. There aren't a lot of people reporting on the X570 chipset use with Linux at the moment (Linux usually lags behind a bit compared to Windows on this sort of thing) so I'm not going to go down that path.
By the time I'm really ready to drop some cash on a new mobo and CPU, they'll probably have those issues worked out, once there are more boards with X570 chipsets put into service and running Linux.

Quote:
I don't see myself needing PCIe 4 for anything, for years. I can cross that bridge if/when necessary. The board I chose only costs around $130 anyway. Swapping a board years down the road, if I get to keep everything else the same, isn't a problem for me in the slightest.
I don't really need PCIe 4.0 either, but I wouldn't want to swap out mobos down the road, coz then I'd have a mobo with no CPU and I've been down that road before. I couldn't stand having a perfectly good unused motherboard laying around and ended up buying another CPU for it.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 01:37 PM   #52
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I couldn't stand having a perfectly good unused motherboard laying around and ended up buying another CPU for it.
If that isn't the definition of "first-world problems", I don't know what is.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 10:20 PM   #53
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
Default

I was planning to build an i7-8700k system a year ago, then heard about the 9900k so decided to wait, that seemed a bit lackluster, then I heard about the AMD Ryzen 3000 and have been waiting ever since.

I was looking at the 3900x, but as it's sold out anyway I'm thinking I might let the dust settle a bit and take the time to research the best configuration and likely get the 3950x instead.

Hopefully the single thread performance won't be too much worse (lower base-clock) since the extra 4 cores should come in handy.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
PitchSlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 01:19 PM   #54
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
Default

So this is interesting.
Apparently there is some variation in speed between cores and not all cores can hit the Turbo Boost speed.

Multiprocessor utilization seems like a complicated topic, but it's possible Reaper's might benefit from some tweaking to ensure the highest single thread load is matched to the fastest core.


Quote:
The combination of Windows 10's new Ryzen-aware scheduler and AMD's chipset drivers allow the operating system to schedule single-threaded tasks into the fastest cores (thread pinning). AMD has previously disclosed the Windows 10 scheduler and the CPCC2 feature, but not that the combined features assign threads to the fastest cores. This functionality requires the latest version of Windows 10.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...ysis,6253.html
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
PitchSlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 06:37 PM   #55
Billy M
Human being with feelings
 
Billy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 613
Default 3700X Build

I finally decided on the Ryzen 3700X for my build and was able to get it for $20.00 off ($309.99) the MSRP via Best Buy/Google Express a few weeks ago. I also decided to go with a X570 board: ASRock Steel Legend ($199.99). I started building it last weekend and am almost done but am still in the process of downloading and activating plugins/apps on the new computer (ugh). All seems great so far. I got a StarTech PCI-e to PCI adaptor for my RME 9632 card and put it in last night with fingers crossed and it seems to be working fine but i haven't got it moved into the project studio to really put it to the test yet. If you go the StarTech route - be aware that you will most likely have to cut the back of the case slot to get the card to fit because the adaptor pushes the card up about 1" higher. I bought a PCI extension ribbon to hopefully avoid this (to put it in another case slot) but unless you mount the card in a different position (which requires a wide case and extensive cutting) it creates the same problem - card sits too high. I should know how well the adaptor and the card perform within a few weeks when i really put it to the test.

The computer is dead quiet. I used Noctua fans and a budget "quiet" case that seem to work well. Also went all SSD. I'm pleased with everything so far except Windoze 10. It's going to take me a while to get used to it after being on 7 for so long. I also don't dig the auto-updating and have installed an app that supposedly helps block the updates. Not sure how well that will work - there are a couple that had great reviews.

My build:

- RYZEN 3700X (bought a Noctua NH-U12S cooler but am using the stock AMD one as of now and it is very quiet so will stick with it for now)

- ASRock Steel Legend Motherboard (i've always had good luck with ASRock boards)

- Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2x16) DDR4-3200 Memory

- 3 SSDs: Samsung 860 Evo @ 500GB / 860 Evo @ 1TB / Intel 660P M.2-2280 NVME @ 1TB

- Corsair 100R ATX Mid-Tower Quiet Case (budget, but quiet and all i needed)

- MSI GT710 2GB Video Card (not a gamer and i always use fanless/quiet cards on my
DAW builds, so this will work fine for me).

- 3 Noctua NF-P12 120mm case fans

- Thermaltake Smart 700W quiet power supply (had got this for Xmas last year and decided to give it a go even though it's a budget unit. It's very quiet. I can always get better if needed, but think this will do fine.)

Total price: $1250.00

Hope this helps anyone thinking about starting a new Ryzen build or using a StarTech adaptor for an older RME PCI card. I will report back in a few weeks when things have really been up and running for a while and i've been able to give the 3700X and 9632 a good workout.

Rock on -





Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy M View Post
I'm about to do a new build and am leaning towards the Ryzen 3700x right now. I am still considering the i7 8700k but reviews have swayed me more towards the 3700x. Single thread performance seems to be close to equal between the two and the 3700x is better for multi-core performance (more cores and threads). I'm still going to wait a few more weeks as things settle down, read more reviews and make a decision.

DAWBENCH review from yesterday:

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2019/07...-magic-number/
__________________
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” - George Carlin

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks

Last edited by Billy M; 08-23-2019 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Added total cost of build -
Billy M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 09:39 PM   #56
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,687
Default

Seems like a super studio hardware (quiet and fast) for Reaper (Windows) for a good price !
Could you tell us the sum price for reference ?

Please let us know how it finally works with Reaper.

Thanks for sharing !
-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2019, 02:14 PM   #57
Billy M
Human being with feelings
 
Billy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 613
Default

Total price ended up being about $1250.00. I already had 2 monitors (plan on adding a 3rd one in a few months) and just used the CD-R/DVD player/burner from my old computer, so i didn't have to buy those. I'm really pleased with everything so far.

Will def update on how well it plays with Reaper in a few weeks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Seems like a super studio hardware (quiet and fast) for Reaper (Windows) for a good price !
Could you tell us the sum price for reference ?

Please let us know how it finally works with Reaper.

Thanks for sharing !
-Michael
__________________
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” - George Carlin

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks
Billy M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 10:55 AM   #58
Billy M
Human being with feelings
 
Billy M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 613
Default Quick Ryzen 3700x Reaper test

Quick update on my Ryzen 3700x build:

I loaded 512 tracks, each with an instance of Reacomp and a .wav file - played great without any lag and was using right @ 50% Total CPU. Buffer was set @ 128.

The Startech adaptor has been working great so far with my RME card. Hopefully i'll get a few more years use out of it. If you have a RME PCI card and are doing a new build - it's surely worth a try.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that my browser was open with 15 tabs and two other apps were also open when i tested. I had forgotten to shut them down beforehand. : )


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy M View Post
I finally decided on the Ryzen 3700X for my build and was able to get it for $20.00 off ($309.99) the MSRP via Best Buy/Google Express a few weeks ago. I also decided to go with a X570 board: ASRock Steel Legend ($199.99). I started building it last weekend and am almost done but am still in the process of downloading and activating plugins/apps on the new computer (ugh). All seems great so far. I got a StarTech PCI-e to PCI adaptor for my RME 9632 card and put it in last night with fingers crossed and it seems to be working fine but i haven't got it moved into the project studio to really put it to the test yet. If you go the StarTech route - be aware that you will most likely have to cut the back of the case slot to get the card to fit because the adaptor pushes the card up about 1" higher. I bought a PCI extension ribbon to hopefully avoid this (to put it in another case slot) but unless you mount the card in a different position (which requires a wide case and extensive cutting) it creates the same problem - card sits too high. I should know how well the adaptor and the card perform within a few weeks when i really put it to the test.

The computer is dead quiet. I used Noctua fans and a budget "quiet" case that seem to work well. Also went all SSD. I'm pleased with everything so far except Windoze 10. It's going to take me a while to get used to it after being on 7 for so long. I also don't dig the auto-updating and have installed an app that supposedly helps block the updates. Not sure how well that will work - there are a couple that had great reviews.

My build:

- RYZEN 3700X (bought a Noctua NH-U12S cooler but am using the stock AMD one as of now and it is very quiet so will stick with it for now)

- ASRock Steel Legend Motherboard (i've always had good luck with ASRock boards)

- Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2x16) DDR4-3200 Memory

- 3 SSDs: Samsung 860 Evo @ 500GB / 860 Evo @ 1TB / Intel 660P M.2-2280 NVME @ 1TB

- Corsair 100R ATX Mid-Tower Quiet Case (budget, but quiet and all i needed)

- MSI GT710 2GB Video Card (not a gamer and i always use fanless/quiet cards on my
DAW builds, so this will work fine for me).

- 3 Noctua NF-P12 120mm case fans

- Thermaltake Smart 700W quiet power supply (had got this for Xmas last year and decided to give it a go even though it's a budget unit. It's very quiet. I can always get better if needed, but think this will do fine.)

Total price: $1250.00

Hope this helps anyone thinking about starting a new Ryzen build or using a StarTech adaptor for an older RME PCI card. I will report back in a few weeks when things have really been up and running for a while and i've been able to give the 3700X and 9632 a good workout.

Rock on -
__________________
“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.” - George Carlin

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks

Last edited by Billy M; 09-07-2019 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Added additional info.
Billy M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 10:03 PM   #59
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
Default

Pretty in depth video on memory testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IY_KlkQK1Q

The sweet spot seems to be 3600Mhz CL16, though 3200MHz CL14 is also very usable.

I'm going to go with the G.SKILL Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600 CL16.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
PitchSlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2019, 10:46 AM   #60
drumphil
Human being with feelings
 
drumphil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
Default

Quote:
* Global C-State control
* AMD cool'n'quiet
There is no good reason to disable these settings in the bios because:

1: You get the same result by setting windows to the high performance power plan.

2: If you leave them enabled, you can save power and noise when you're not recording by switching to the balanced power plan (or one of your own creation).
drumphil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 03:17 AM   #61
AndreiT
Human being with feelings
 
AndreiT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Romania
Posts: 188
Default

I have a 3700X and coming from a 1600X, I can see some big improvements. There are still some issues with boosting (mine boosts ok) but will be fixed this month.
AndreiT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2019, 03:55 AM   #62
SmajjL
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: IKEA
Posts: 2,779
Default

Two computers would be nice right about now, right AMD?
__________________
_Ohh.))::_Linux_::((.Xoxo_

SmajjL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2019, 02:48 PM   #63
Doc Brown
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,725
Default

I think I'm going to hold out for the 3950x in November or so because it looks pretty impressive but the price might not be.
Doc Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2019, 03:34 PM   #64
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammyHavoc View Post
How's the real-world latency these days due to the multiple Zen chips on the same dye? Referring to this: https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/info/audio-pc-processor
Just noticed how old this thread and post are but if you're still looking for the info (or anyone else is) - the 3900X still has that problem (not the other 3rd gen Ryzens) but the CPU is so much faster than a similarly priced Intel that, even when only running at limited percentage before glitches occur, it still gives better performance.

In other words, even though the glitching/dropouts might still be happening at 70-80% CPU usage, it's still allowing more plugin instances etc. than the i9 is when running near maximum CPU.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2019, 04:24 PM   #65
Gremlin-
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykrobinson View Post
I know this seems to be a black hole discussion, and opinions vary greatly.
Just wondering if any of you have built a system with a newer Ryzen chipset, and if so, how does it perform in Reaper for you?

I may be looking to build a new system and use my laptop for other things, and am kicking around the idea of a Ryzen 7 2700, but i still don't understand exactly how Reaper does with multi core processing. Isn't most of what I would nee for Reaper single?

It does seem the Ryzen does great for video work, though.

I may just end up sticking with an i5 or i7, but I am always a sucker for the underdog...

Ryzen works great.
Regarding your multicore concerns, dont worry about that.

When selecting a mainboard read the documents so you get what you want some mainboards only allow for 32 gigs of ram.

Good luck with your project.
Gremlin- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2019, 05:03 PM   #66
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gremlin- View Post
Ryzen works great.
Regarding your multicore concerns, dont worry about that.

When selecting a mainboard read the documents so you get what you want some mainboards only allow for 32 gigs of ram.

Good luck with your project.
I'm waiting for the B550 motherboards to come out before I plunk down some coin. I held out because the idea of a small high pitched fan right on the mobo didn't sit well with me, but I still want the fastest potential of PCIe 4.0 for future SSD devices.

According to some leaked info, the B550 chipset will use 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes for communication between chipset and CPU vs 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes with X570 chipset. Still, this will leave the CPU with 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes which could be used to support NVMe SSDs at PCIe 4.0 speeds.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259498/r...hipset-surface
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--

Last edited by Glennbo; 10-11-2019 at 05:43 PM.
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 04:54 AM   #67
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I'm waiting for the B550 motherboards to come out before I plunk down some coin. I held out because the idea of a small high pitched fan right on the mobo didn't sit well with me, but I still want the fastest potential of PCIe 4.0 for future SSD devices.

According to some leaked info, the B550 chipset will use 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes for communication between chipset and CPU vs 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes with X570 chipset. Still, this will leave the CPU with 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes which could be used to support NVMe SSDs at PCIe 4.0 speeds.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259498/r...hipset-surface
Do you have a source for the mobo fan being high pitched?

I plan to get an x570 board because I've read that the fans are inaudible but it they are loud like you say that would be a deal breaker.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 05:42 AM   #68
Travesty
Human being with feelings
 
Travesty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
Default

Beware if you run UAD. Only the octo is compatible. I had to return to intel because of this. This was 1st gen ryzen though.
Travesty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 06:12 AM   #69
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stews View Post
Do you have a source for the mobo fan being high pitched?

I plan to get an x570 board because I've read that the fans are inaudible but it they are loud like you say that would be a deal breaker.
I've not read about anyone complaining, I've just had too many little fans on computer cards that got more and more noisy over time, and then also will fail at some point too.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 06:48 AM   #70
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I've not read about anyone complaining, I've just had too many little fans on computer cards that got more and more noisy over time, and then also will fail at some point too.
It did concern me when I saw the fan but I did read it being said it was inaudible. That is right out the box though, it could get louder with wear.

The main reason I was going for X570 is that previous motherboards have to be flashed in order to work with the 3rd gen Ryzen and to flash it, it requires a CPU that works on it. So it's only useful for upgrading, for a brand new system it's impossible.

The PCIe 4.0 thing looked tempting at first but after looking in to it I concluded it wouldn't really give me much real-world advantage.

Since you mention about the B550 coming out, I think I'll go for that to save me money and hopefully avoid the fan just in case it does become audible.

When it talks about the B550 having less bandwidth between the chipset and the CPU - do you know how that would affect performance?
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 08:34 AM   #71
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stews View Post
It did concern me when I saw the fan but I did read it being said it was inaudible. That is right out the box though, it could get louder with wear.

The main reason I was going for X570 is that previous motherboards have to be flashed in order to work with the 3rd gen Ryzen and to flash it, it requires a CPU that works on it. So it's only useful for upgrading, for a brand new system it's impossible.

The PCIe 4.0 thing looked tempting at first but after looking in to it I concluded it wouldn't really give me much real-world advantage.

Since you mention about the B550 coming out, I think I'll go for that to save me money and hopefully avoid the fan just in case it does become audible.

When it talks about the B550 having less bandwidth between the chipset and the CPU - do you know how that would affect performance?
Supposedly the communication between chipset and CPU won't getting anywhere near being a bottleneck with four lanes of PCIe 3.0 and will be a boost from previous chipsets like the B450 which were 4 lanes of PCIe 2.0. I don't know if 4 lanes of PCIe 2.0 is a bottleneck or not, but like you, I want it to work without having to flash.

To flash an older board you have to have an older CPU initially, which I've read some companies are including, and once flashed you send the old CPU back, which sounds like a hassle to me.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 08:41 AM   #72
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Supposedly the communication between chipset and CPU won't getting anywhere near being a bottleneck with four lanes of PCIe 3.0 and will be a boost from previous chipsets like the B450 which were 4 lanes of PCIe 2.0. I don't know if 4 lanes of PCIe 2.0 is a bottleneck or not, but like you, I want it to work without having to flash.

To flash an older board you have to have an older CPU initially, which I've read some companies are including, and once flashed you send the old CPU back, which sounds like a hassle to me.
Aye I've read that AMD send you out a compatible CPU that you have to return but I doubt it's even available in Scotland and, as you say, sounds like a hassle.

Been trying to find comparisons between the pcie 3 & 4 for the CPU->chipset thing - it seems to make very little difference, even in games with a pcie 4 video card it's only a percent or two.

Had a look at B450 boards to get an idea of price but a lot of the cheaper ones seem to only have 4 sata ports which isn't enough for me. But looking at the B550 specs, the chipset itself has 8 so hopefully even the cheap motherboards will have more than 4.

Definitely glad you brought this up, could well have saved me about 100 quid on my new PC!

Continuing the topic of money saving and noisy fans - do you have any idea if the stock fan that comes with the 3rd gen Ryzens will be quiet enough for DAW use?

It seems to be an actual decent cooler unlike included coolers of the past where an upgrade was a necessity to avoid noise.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 09:46 AM   #73
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stews View Post
Aye I've read that AMD send you out a compatible CPU that you have to return but I doubt it's even available in Scotland and, as you say, sounds like a hassle.

Been trying to find comparisons between the pcie 3 & 4 for the CPU->chipset thing - it seems to make very little difference, even in games with a pcie 4 video card it's only a percent or two.

Had a look at B450 boards to get an idea of price but a lot of the cheaper ones seem to only have 4 sata ports which isn't enough for me. But looking at the B550 specs, the chipset itself has 8 so hopefully even the cheap motherboards will have more than 4.

Definitely glad you brought this up, could well have saved me about 100 quid on my new PC!

Continuing the topic of money saving and noisy fans - do you have any idea if the stock fan that comes with the 3rd gen Ryzens will be quiet enough for DAW use?

It seems to be an actual decent cooler unlike included coolers of the past where an upgrade was a necessity to avoid noise.
I don't know how much noise the stock CPU cooler will make, but that's an item I can switch out if need be. I just was really put off by a fan on the mobo though. I can't count the number of times I've started hearing noise from little fans like that on video cards, or worse when you open the case and see that one is totally stuck on not spinning. I don't want that crap on any mobo I'm going to be using long term.

Everything I've been reading sounds like the B550 chipset is the happy place for what I need, as I'm not a gamer, but do want PCIe 4.0 for SSDs down the line. One huge advantage for disk speeds, and this is even true for previous generation stuff is the NVMe drives that bypass sata all together, and do communication at a lower level. I've got two sata SSDs and a sata HD right now and intend to keep using them for a while, but I do plan to go with some M.2 NVMe drives in the future and want PCIe 4.0 for them.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 10:08 AM   #74
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I don't know how much noise the stock CPU cooler will make, but that's an item I can switch out if need be. I just was really put off by a fan on the mobo though. I can't count the number of times I've started hearing noise from little fans like that on video cards, or worse when you open the case and see that one is totally stuck on not spinning. I don't want that crap on any mobo I'm going to be using long term.

Everything I've been reading sounds like the B550 chipset is the happy place for what I need, as I'm not a gamer, but do want PCIe 4.0 for SSDs down the line. One huge advantage for disk speeds, and this is even true for previous generation stuff is the NVMe drives that bypass sata all together, and do communication at a lower level. I've got two sata SSDs and a sata HD right now and intend to keep using them for a while, but I do plan to go with some M.2 NVMe drives in the future and want PCIe 4.0 for them.
Hopefully when the boards are out there will be benchmarks that show if there's any performance difference between the b550 and x570 but it looks like I'll be going for the b550 now which is good.

As long as it has 6+ sata ports and doesn't decrease the performance of the cpu.

If the stock cooler is quiet enough then between that and the mobo I could knock 180 quid off the new pc! Basically just need to sell this Les Paul and it will cover it.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2019, 10:23 AM   #75
Edgemeal
Human being with feelings
 
Edgemeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
Default

Last board I had with a chipset fan was an Asus (w/3 yr warr.) and I saw posts they were making noise and failing after about a year, so I called Asus and told them mine was bad (it wasn't) , they sent me new heatsink with fan, ~5 years later the fan finally started making noise, I popped in the new one and used that system for another 4 years.
Edgemeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2019, 02:59 AM   #76
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stews View Post

Continuing the topic of money saving and noisy fans - do you have any idea if the stock fan that comes with the 3rd gen Ryzens will be quiet enough for DAW use?
From what I've seen in tests online they are ok for an included cooler, but certainly won't compare to a good fan for noise and cooling performance.
Here's a quick and dirty noise comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i65mImHDjZA

I've read that AMD may release a version of the 3950x without a fan, which makes sense since people buying the top of the line CPU are likely to want a better fan.

From all the research I've done the Noctua NH D-15 seems to be the best option. Extremely quiet and cooling on par with watercooling (without the risk of leaking or the pump dying). Comparably inexpensive too. The main drawback is it's huge, and kind of ugly. Some RAM may be too tall for the fan as well.

I'm also looking at a Fractal Design Define R6 for a quiet case.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6

Last edited by PitchSlap; 10-13-2019 at 03:05 AM.
PitchSlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2019, 06:17 AM   #77
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
From what I've seen in tests online they are ok for an included cooler, but certainly won't compare to a good fan for noise and cooling performance.
Here's a quick and dirty noise comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i65mImHDjZA

I've read that AMD may release a version of the 3950x without a fan, which makes sense since people buying the top of the line CPU are likely to want a better fan.

From all the research I've done the Noctua NH D-15 seems to be the best option. Extremely quiet and cooling on par with watercooling (without the risk of leaking or the pump dying). Comparably inexpensive too. The main drawback is it's huge, and kind of ugly. Some RAM may be too tall for the fan as well.

I'm also looking at a Fractal Design Define R6 for a quiet case.
It's that exact cooler, they Noctua, I've decided to get. It's a lot of money compared to just using the stock cooler but I had found another YouTube video where the difference in noise was big enough to even account for any mistakes in the test (possible inexact mic placement etc.).

The Fractal is also the case I have, it's a great case.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2019, 04:52 PM   #78
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

I got a NH-U12S for my Ryzen 3700X system and it's a noticeable reduction in fan noise compared to the stock Wraith cooler when the CPU is being pushed. If you don't push the CPU much the stock cooler seems almost as quiet, but otherwise it's a pretty big difference.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2019, 04:59 PM   #79
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
I got a NH-U12S for my Ryzen 3700X system and it's a noticeable reduction in fan noise compared to the stock Wraith cooler when the CPU is being pushed. If you don't push the CPU much the stock cooler seems almost as quiet, but otherwise it's a pretty big difference.
Cheers man, very helpful.

Was hoping to save some money since a decent cooler is being included but quietness is something I'm willing to pay for if I have to and it looks like I do.

How do you get on with the 3700X, incidentally?

Do you ever run with low latency and, if so, are you able to add plugins galore without ever having to freeze or think twice about adding something?

It is a lot cheaper than the 3900X and according to research seems to be several times faster than my current CPU so it could possibly be a good way for me to save money. If it was able to run my maximum session with low latency then buying the 3900X would be a waste of money.
Stews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2019, 06:24 PM   #80
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

The 3700X works well for me so far. My audio device is the Realtek ALC1220 on the mainboard (Gigabyte X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming), which actually has very good quality. Its latency probably won't get as low as an RME device, but I can set it for around 6 ms round-trip latency while pushing the CPU to about 50% (with plugins) and it won't do xruns. If I set the round-trip latency to around 10-11 ms I can push the CPU to around 90% without xruns. (edit) Actually, undoing some "recommended tweaks" to my Linux OS, I'm now able to get the latency to 3 ms round-trip and stable at a fairly high CPU load.

I've also disabled "Core performance boost" in the BIOS at the moment. From what I take it, that means it doesn't try to throttle the CPU frequency past its stated normal upper value of 3.6 GHz. I had done this because the stock cooler made a lot of noise suddenly if the CPU had demand placed on it, and it was annoying hearing the fan whir up/down repeatedly. I could enable this feature again but honestly I find the available power to be far beyond what I need even without that feature enabled. I'm still able to run a test project with a bunch of tracks with WAV files running a total of 160 ReaPitch (in default settings, "elastique 3.3.0 Pro" as the algorithm) without having xruns. If you're curious about trying something like this, set it up for 10 ReaPitch instances on a single track with a WAV that is at the sample rate of the project (so that aspect isn't affecting the results), then copy/paste the track and see when your project becomes unresponsive. Watch Reaper's performance meter for CPU % and xruns.

Also I'm using Linux, so that might affect things a bit. I noticed when I first switched to Linux from Windows 7, I got a more stable system that I could push significantly harder in Reaper.

Last edited by JamesPeters; 10-21-2019 at 09:19 AM.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.