Setting up guitar issues...

[cb1]

Hey,

First post. Happy to be here. Helping my son out with mixing. Actually - asking a few questions while he's in school!

His band is trying to record their first EP. Because of budgetary constrictions - he has to work with equipment he already has (he's a kid with a garage band)

Set-up as follows:

1 - Line 6 amp which is mic'd. The mic is about 3 inches off center and an inch away from the amp.

2 - Mic goes into a Peavey XR1212 mixer then into TASCAM DP03 digital recorder.

3 - He's followed the same procedure for all instruments and vocals. And it's sounds pretty decent.

4 - The guitar levels on the Tascam recorder say the signal is fine.

5 - The tracks are then imported into Reaper which he downloaded and is learning.

Portions of the guitar tracks sound distorted at higher volumes. However - it doesn't sound like it's clipping it just sounds very unnatural. Boxy? Or like its hit a harmonic it can't reproduce. I can't describe it well because my music knowledge is limited at best.

Honestly - I think it's in the recording and can't be fixed without re-recording it. But I may be mistaken.

Given this information - could the recording volume of the electric guitar be too loud possible? Or the mic too near the amp?

He's starting to get a little bummed about the whole thing because they wanted a cd for a concert coming up. But know it looks like it's a lot bigger challenge then originally anticipated.


Any suggestions are helpful.

Thanks!

[tomrip]

any way you can post a sample of the sound. would be easier to help once we hear it. I would ask has he tried to use amp sims? so instead of micing, e can plug straight in, and use free plugins like lecto which is a mesa boogie amp sim.

[cb1]

Originally Posted by tomrip

any way you can post a sample of the sound. would be easier to help once we hear it. I would ask has he tried to use amp sims? so instead of micing, e can plug straight in, and use free plugins like lecto which is a mesa boogie amp sim.

The guitarist has a Line 6 amp FYI

I will ask about mic'ing direct. They are really pressed to get something done for an upcoming show - but will see. (face it - they are sophomores in HS - everything is !NOW! if you get my drift.)

I tell you what - can he render it to something we can post here? For the kids first attempt at mixing - you gotta give him a pat on the back even though the veterans here will probably fall out of their chairs. Technically - it's probably worse than a disaster - but he's learning the software and doing everything for the first time - so I think it's pretty cool.

[zardoz]

IMO it doesn't make much sense to mic a Line6, it's just an amp modeller connected to a power amp. "Unnatural" sounding distortion usually means digital clipping and if that's the case you're out of luck. That's the true beauty of using plugins in a DAW, you can change or completely remove all processing after the fact.

Just a general observation, in this day and age everyone and his dog has a wicked-sounding demo. Cheap home recording has raised the standards through the roof and if you hand someone a bad demo, they'll often just write you off. If your son's band is serious they should chalk that first try up to a learning experience and get some help to make something presentable.

For home recording I highly recommend using Poulin amp sims and LeCab: it takes a little while to set up but your son's current problems will be a thing of the past. Here's a vid showing how to get things going: (the video uses Kefir rather than LeCab, but the principle is the same.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nVs...yuRqw&index=52

[cb1]

Thanks Zardoz - I will show him this thread. About 6 weeks ago we bought a digital recorder... learning may not have been the best use of $.

[zardoz]

Well, Tascam makes good gear and with 8 tracks you can mic a 5-piece drum kit properly, so it's not money out the window. BTW this is a great forum so it's likely worth your time to upload a sample, maybe the existing takes are saveable.

[JeffreyET]

QUOTE
"IMO it doesn't make much sense to mic a Line6, it's just an amp modeller connected to a power amp. "Unnatural" sounding distortion usually means digital clipping and if that's the case you're out of luck"

I agree with this... I had a Line 6 and hated the digital behaviours and tone.
I don't have much experience with VST models. I'm old-school about mic'ing a tube amp. Doesn't even have to be expensive, I have an Epi Valve Jr that I modded and it sounds great. I would only consider a VST amp if I had no other choice due to noise complaints.

[DVDdoug]

Given this information - could the recording volume of the electric guitar be too loud possible? Or the mic too near the amp?

MaybeThat depends on the mic. What mic did you use? The SM57 is pretty much impossible to overload. Condenser mics are often easier to overload, because you can overload the electronics. From what you said, I don't think the preamp or ADC are clipped but the mic could be getting over driven and if it's a condenser, its internal electronics might be clipping.

If the Line6 sounds OK live, I think it should be possible to get a good recording of what you are hearing. Maybe just try a different mic position. There are some rules-of-thumb for micing guitar amps, but unless you are familiar with the particular amp and the particular mic, and you already have your favorite set-up, you have to expermient.

Honestly - I think it's in the recording and can't be fixed without re-recording it. But I may be mistaken.

Re-recording the guitar part is probably the best option. Bringing-back a musician or vocalist is really not an unusual situation in the "pro world". (But, if you're the recording engineer, you don't want it to be your fault. ) You can experiment with different set-ups, but it usually doesn't hurt to get a DI track along with an mic'ed amp track.

And you know... You might even want to try mixing-in a bit of that "bad" distorted track with the new recording... It just might add some "richness" or "depth" to the sound, so it's worth a quick try.

If your son's band is serious they should chalk that first try up to a learning experience and get some help to make something presentable.

Yeah... If the only problem is the the guitar, I'd say you did GREAT for the first try!

If the band's never been "in the studio", and it's everybody's first time with this equipment and this set-up, I would have recommended a practice recording session and a preliminary practice-mix to get all of the bugs worked-out. Then, come back in a week or two for the real deal.

[zardoz]

Can't resist one more kick at the can: First, IMO the new generation of amp sims is the real deal. I've owned many excellent tube amps over the years (Marshall, Boogie, Fender) and swore amp-emulation would never come close . . . I was wrong.

Second, micing guitars is a headache. Very slight differences in mic placement make a big difference in the sound, and any imperfections are there to stay. With VSTs you can change any element of the sound at any time. Need to do a punch-in 3 weeks after the main recording? Just use the same patch, no problem. I'm using VSTs for recording for the first time now, and the ease of use is incredible.

[G-Tracker]

Originally Posted by zardoz

For home recording I highly recommend using Poulin amp sims and LeCab: it takes a little while to set up but your son's current problems will be a thing of the past. Here's a vid showing how to get things going: (the video uses Kefir rather than LeCab, but the principle is the same.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nVs...yuRqw&index=52

Thank you for this. I was all but giving up!

[zardoz]

Hey, if it works for you it'll be the first useful thing I've posted on the Reaper forum. Good luck! BTW check out the Poulin LE 456, best amp sim ever.