Old 02-28-2020, 06:31 AM   #1
brk303
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Serbia
Posts: 51
Default Deessing hats from snare mic

Hi, I have a snare track which sounds dull unless brightened and compressed which then brings out harsh hats.
I would like to de-ess the hi-hats but not snare hits.
I guess I could use a 500hz sidechain detector, but that would make it de-ess snare hits only, the opposite of what I want.
So I need to reverse logic, any ideas how to do this ?
brk303 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 07:22 AM   #2
Kenny Gioia
Human being with feelings
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,728
Default

Why don't you gate the snare so it only plays when the snare is hit?
Kenny Gioia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 07:34 AM   #3
vdubreeze
Human being with feelings
 
vdubreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 2,006
Default

Or key the eq off the snare so it only eqs when the snare hits and is flat (or even tilted down) the rest of the time.
__________________
The reason rain dances work is because they don't stop dancing until it rains.
vdubreeze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2020, 08:13 AM   #4
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,013
Default

If the track in question has a lot of hat hits right on top of snare hits and thus makes gating not really work...

Get a mix of hat + snare from the snare mic(s). Go for balance of snare with hat. Squash as needed.
Gate (strip silence) another copy of the snare mic. Low pass EQ this copy to only keep the body of the snare.
Blend to taste.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 11:43 AM   #5
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

Sorry, totally misread the question :/
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!

Last edited by beingmf; 03-05-2020 at 02:14 AM.
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 01:18 PM   #6
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
Send the snare track to a second track, insert ReaComp with 0 attack, 0 RMS, max ratio. Threshold and release to taste. High-pass the detection sidechain to about 400Hz or higher.
Now flip the phase and you're good.
Neat trick, but how is it different from gating?
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 03:26 PM   #7
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

--- misreading follow-up - - -
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!

Last edited by beingmf; 03-05-2020 at 02:15 AM.
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 03:38 PM   #8
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 13,633
Default

This is exactly why multi band gate was made

Hold the gate open long for the low frequencies and close it fast for the high end
pipelineaudio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 03:39 PM   #9
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

Obv, it's whatever works best for you. ReaGate has all the envelope & sidechain control that ReaComp has. Now if it only had ratio/knee (i.e. was a proper expander/gate) it'd be perfect. We can dream, can't we?
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2020, 04:05 PM   #10
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

... it's a bit of a "period" gimmick, but it's worth remembering ReaGate has a built in noise source. If you find you're finding it hard to get the bright snare you want without eq trouble, give it a go. A little goes a long way.

Snarebuzz (wavesfactory, free) is worth checking out also.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:33 AM   #11
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

OK, now that I understand what the issue is: been there once, and in the end, there's only 3 passable solutions.

The obvious one is sample replacement. If you have an "average" snare hit/sample without or with a lowly hit hihat, either replace the hits in question manually or ‒ if there's too many of 'em ‒ use a plugin sampler and one of the drum trigger JS's. The greater the variety of hits you can sample the better, but that should be clear. Check microtiming for phase coherence with the overheads!

The second solution only works if the snare track is sent to some kind of reverb. Rather than adding the top end on the dry signal only, try to find the a blend between "acceptable hihat top end on the dry track" and "brightened post-dynamic-EQ" reverb send. This, of course, involves a dynamic EQ which you can easily create with ReaEQ and Parameter Modulation (Audio).

The third solution is my favourite by far: instead of EQ'ing for brightness, re-amp the snare bottom and mix that in. Of course, mic choice and placement are crucial, but since you can re-do as many times as you like, you should usually find the appropriate sound.

EDIT:
Solution #4: Depending on the overhead mic placement/sound you might keep the dull close mic'd snare and accentuate the hits (sidechain > expander) in the overhead track. The snare has to be clear and rather upfront in the OH though.
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!

Last edited by beingmf; 03-05-2020 at 04:54 AM.
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:39 AM   #12
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
The third solution is my favourite by far: instead of EQ'ing for brightness, re-amp the snare bottom and mix that in. Of course, mic choice and placement are crucial, but since you can re-do as many times as you like, you should usually find the proper
You're assuming the OP has a snare bottom track. Obv, something to consider for next time. Otherwise, see Snarebuzz, or whatever.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:50 AM   #13
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
You're assuming the OP has a snare bottom track. Obv, something to consider for next time. Otherwise, see Snarebuzz, or whatever.
Not at all. I'm talking about re-amping:

1) Set up a snare drum.
2) Put a small speaker box on top of the snare, make sure it is not completely deadening the head.
3) Now set up a send from the snare track to the speaker: roll off/filter all the unnecessary top end in order to trigger the snare strainer, even heavily boost the bass. Experiment with speaker levels and the strainer tension, both will have qualitative impact on the result. Don't kill the speaker.
4) Set up a mic underneath, whatever sounds best for the task.
5) Record.
6) Mix.
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!

Last edited by beingmf; 03-07-2020 at 10:01 AM.
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:53 AM   #14
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

Oh right, that palaver. Seriously, check out snarebuzz.

example, as an insert bringing the wet/dry mix (on the plugin) up, and down.
Maybe better to use parallel...

(Mono) OH & snare top (w/ snarebuzz)

like this
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...

Last edited by jrk; 03-05-2020 at 03:22 AM.
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 03:26 AM   #15
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

Oh, yes, for a one stop solution that's absolutely amazing, thanks! Or even just to try experimentally if the "snare bottom trick" would work in your mix.

I personally love recording those little details that no one but me will notice in the end ‒ for most productions I prefer a bespoke mix solution. But I can see myself using the plugin more often than I'd like to (now that I've downloaded it, haha).
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 03:36 AM   #16
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

Absolutely agree - I'm sure you get a great sound doing it "for real". But the plugin's so quick and easy (and free), and very much "good enough". I've used it faking up a garage rock sound from programmed drums (drive it with a bit of everything, incl bass guitar) for a hint of resonant buzziness. Really convincing. As well as faking a snare bottom mic, obv.

There's folks add it to all kinds - sampled brass even.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 03:47 AM   #17
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
There's folks add it to all kinds - sampled brass even.
Absolutely ‒ I can imagine deliberately using it on a boring kick drum track will bring it alive (if used subtly).
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 11:03 PM   #18
valy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 535
Default

You could blend a brighter snare sample with the original. Sometimes gating just ends up adding these swells of hi-hat sound which isn't usually what you want
valy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 06:24 AM   #19
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 4,053
Default

I have to thank you for that suggestion - since I'm not really motivated to go to the studio and re-amp the snare bottom ("Listen, officer, sir, it IS an emergency, kind of! I absolutely need some natural top end for that snare!"), I just used the SnareBuzz plugin and a little bit of PetiteExcite*. Instant beautiful 70's vibe, amazing!

* I know there's a JS (SonicEnhancer), but the VST sounded a little better
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2260, 8.911.3.4000 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.0.9.0 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
Experience the Blunzeworscht!
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2020, 10:59 AM   #20
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 773
Default

Glad it's useful. Thank the folks @ Wavesfactory!
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.