Vocal into guitar pedals?

[Rhino]

Hello everyone! Have you ever tried to record vocals through guitar pedals?
I like my records to sound lofi kind of moody... I am thinking of getting JHS Color box V2 and some cool guitar pedals to try it myself . I wonder what other equipment i will need ... Here is a video the guy showing how he does that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcm7...vPXaA&index=27

But i don't understand why he uses DI box (Triton audio BigAmp)at the end of his effects? Can i just plug my SM58 mic into Color Box after that into couple of guitar pedals and then straight into Audient ID22 audio interface...?
Would't be there any harm to either pedals or audio interface ?
Also which input should i use for this Mic or Guitar?
Anyone who has this experience please share!
Thanks a million!!!

[billybuck]

It should work ok, just use the shortest cable possible between your mic and the first pedal so you don't have noise issues. The DI box probably isn't necessary unless you need to bring up the levels (you'd need an active DI box for this, not passive).

As for mic or guitar setting, just experiment. The pedals will act as a sort of preamp, particularly if they have an input gain knob and you crank that up, so you may or may not need the "mic" setting on your interface (which probably engages the interface's mic preamp.)

Watch out for noise, and if you get some hum, try running your pedals on batteries instead of AC adaptors.

If you have a small mixer with mic inputs, you could also try inserting that between the mic and first pedal and it would probably cure any potential problems with noise and levels.

[Fergler]

Just from googling the colour box, seems like you're ok as it supports both instrument and mic input, and it has both xlr and 1/4 in out.

To answer your question succinctly:

No damage to your gear will occur
Use the Mic input switch, colour box is first in the chain (no high quality way around this without more gear)
Use the XLR output to the audient or use the 1/4 inch output to a High-Z input jack (or 'Inst' jack) on the audient.

From their manual (for the v2):

INPUTS/OUTPUTS
You will notice that in addition to the normal 1/4" instrument input/output found on a guitar pedal, we added an XLR input and output so that The Colour Box can be used as a vocal, bass, acoustic, or keyboard preamp live or in the studio. The 1/4" mono output and the XLR output are independent and allow you to run parallel outputs to two destinations. For example, run the 1/4" mono out into your guitar amplifier and at the same time run the XLR output to your front-ofhouse mixing board. Another example of using parallel outputs would be to track amp tones and the "direct in" sound of your performance onto two separate tracks.

This implies, though I was unable to find the full specs to confirm, that the 1/4 inch output is meant to output the same impedance as a guitar.

Usually, just plugging a microphone (usually around 600 ohms) into a guitar input (expecting 1m ohms) gives a terrible signal that will be completely useless. To fix that without buying a DI box or using other pieces of gear, a small adapter like this can come in handy:

https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-MIT-176-.../dp/B000068O69

I use that one after I plug my trombone condenser mic into a phantom power box, then the adapter takes the output from that box to my guitar pedal board (zoom g5).

One thing I had to add is a pad in line because the output from the trombone mic is so hot, but a normal vocal mic works fine without pad.

[jerome_oneil]

I have. I have run pretty much every signal producing device I own into every signal processing device I own in some combination or another.

If the frequencies are similar, you should get some interesting results.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Fergler

This implies, though I was unable to find the full specs to confirm, that the 1/4 inch output is meant to output the same impedance as a guitar.

It means the XLR is low impedance and/or balanced... for the 1/4" mono out, its output impedance is low enough by default to be fine going into an amp, just like coming out of most any stomp box would be. What we don't want is the device's output impedance to be higher than the guitar (meaning too high for the amp input), so long as it is lower (which you get for free in the most basic preamp circuit), it's 'matched'.

[Fergler]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

It means the XLR is low impedance and/or balanced... for the 1/4" mono out, its output impedance is low enough by default to be fine going into an amp, just like coming out of most any stomp box would be. What we don't want is the device's output impedance to be higher than the guitar (meaning too high for the amp input), so long as it is lower (which you get for free in the most basic preamp circuit), it's 'matched'.

Yes I was referring to the 1/4 inch only. Just couldn't find any docs with the actual specification so I just wanted to throw that out there in case there's a problem that needs tracking down.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Fergler

Yes I was referring to the 1/4 inch only. Just couldn't find any docs with the actual specification so I just wanted to throw that out there in case there's a problem that needs tracking down.

It's all good, just a handy tidbit when there is no spec, that such devices will usually be lower Z than the guitar which is good as far as impedance matching goes. If you ever need a buffer for a long guitar cable run, just use a non-true bypass pedal in bypass mode; due to the same principle.

Stay safe.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by billybuck

It should work ok, just use the shortest cable possible between your mic and the first pedal so you don't have noise issues.

Watch out for noise, and if you get some hum, try running your pedals on batteries instead of AC adaptors.

If you have a small mixer with mic inputs, you could also try inserting that between the mic and first pedal and it would probably cure any potential problems with noise and levels.

Thank you guys for your input!
I am absolutely non technical guy i do everything by try and error... But i thought about this issue and found this device : https://mikehillservices.com/earth-l...mini-376-p.asp

Do you think it will help billybuck?
Thank you!

[Rhino]

No damage to your gear will occur
Use the Mic input switch, colour box is first in the chain (no high quality way around this without more gear)


No damage to your gear will occur
Use the Mic input switch, colour box is first in the chain (no high quality way around this without more gear)

Great! Thanks for your help! I just wanted to make sure when you say "Use the mic input switch" you meant :

"a -20 dB pad switch on the right side of the Colour Box V2. This function can help tame the volume for high output microphones"

Also what do you mean by :

"colour box is first in the chain (no high quality way around this without more gear)"

Thanks again Fergler!

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

I have. I have run pretty much every signal producing device I own into every signal processing device I own in some combination or another.

If the frequencies are similar, you should get some interesting results.

Interesting! What do you mean by "If the frequencies are similar"

Thanks!

[jerome_oneil]

Originally Posted by Rhino

Interesting! What do you mean by "If the frequencies are similar"

Thanks!

Imagine plugging your guitar into a bass effects pedal, or vice versa. Open E on a bass is about 41Hz. On a guitar it is about 330Hz. So if you are running your mic into your Big Muff, you will end up with more interesting results if you keep your vocal range in line with what a guitar would provide.

There is a recent thread about using ReaTune to tune basses that is a good example of this.

[pgodfrin]

That's what I do to use pedal effects with my sax. Radial engineering Voco Loco. Loads of fun!

[pgodfrin]

This is what my pedal board looks like.

[Funkybot]

Just on the general topic...I have a Radial EXTC Reamp box that's built specifically for using pedals in a studio processor setup. Most pedals aren't meant to handle line-level signals, or feed a line-level signal out, so the EXTC will take a line level signal and pad it down to instrument level, then has a return to get things back up to line level. Perfect for taking a recorded channel out of your DAW/interface and processing it with pedals.

If you're using something that's designed for line level signals (quite a few pedals are good with both), obviously that's not necessary, but for when you don't, the EXTC is fantastic. It's even got a blend knob. Highly recommended.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

Imagine plugging your guitar into a bass effects pedal, or vice versa. Open E on a bass is about 41Hz. On a guitar it is about 330Hz. So if you are running your mic into your Big Muff, you will end up with more interesting results if you keep your vocal range in line with what a guitar would provide.

There is a recent thread about using ReaTune to tune basses that is a good example of this.

Just an FYI that it's one octave higher than bass, or 2 * 41 Hz (82 Hz) FYI. An academic aside is that most any guitar pedal rolls off at or just below that since no use in processing that low end mud, especially when it's a distortion/overdrive.

Now that said, pedals like a big muff or a tube screamer and many others likely filter that even higher for the actual gain stage (so think rolling off @80 or so on the way into the pedal, then another filter higher in the gain stage itself) - for example a tube screamer doesn't distort anything below somewhere around 720 hz so in that realm, 330 Hz makes more sense as an HPF point but the actual unaffected open E note is 82 hz on guitar. And.... that is the reason most ODs sound mid-rangey - because of that HPF filtering and LPF on the high end in the 7k range.

[OldTascam]

Originally Posted by jerome_oneil

Open E on a bass is about 41Hz. On a guitar it is about 330Hz.

Hmmm. There is an E note that's approx 330 Hz. But it's not the low E on a guitar, it's 2 octaves above that (i.e. it's the high E string).

[g4greg]

I know we're talking about physical gear here, but I run my vocals through an ampsim quite often when I want that "crunchy lo-fi" sound.

quick and dirty way to get that sound without busting out all the hardware.

[Naji]

Guitar pedals also can be used for drum sounds, best example was Prince, he used mainly boss pedals for drum sounds of LINN drum machine.