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Old 01-21-2011, 09:14 AM   #1
pcmusicpro
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Default Which Win7 version is better for an audio only PC?

Hi all

I've been using Win XP all the time and now I want to change to Win 7 but I'm not sure wich version is best suited for audio. It will be installed on this system:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHz
4Gb Kingston DDR3 ram.
Board Asus P5Q3

Lots of hard drives (4)

This is the audio only PC, no internet, no intranet, no antivirus, no games, etc, just audio applications.

So wich is better Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional, or Ultimate?

I use 32 bits plugins so I suppose it's better to keep with a 32 bit OS version. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

Ed.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:19 AM   #2
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I would say. 64bit OS if you have the ability to go to 8gbs ram.

For audio i dont see how any of the OS versions would impact the preformance except add more crap in the BG that you need to take out. If have Utimate but i have it stripped down to what windows 7 basic would probably be.

The reason for 64 bit OS with 8gbs ram is.. even if you are running Reaper in 32 bit... or have 32 bit plugins, your system has 8gbs. SO, Reaper can take up to 4gbs, a big VSTi can be run as a separate process and take up o 4gb. instead of being on a 32bit system which will cap you at 1.7gb per 32bit app unless you put in the /3gb switch. then its up to 2.7.
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:36 AM   #3
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Home Premium x64 is fine. I've been running it for quite a while now. You probably don't need (or want) the extra baggage Ultimate brings with it.

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Old 01-21-2011, 09:43 AM   #4
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No problems over here with Reaper running on a Toshiba laptop with Windows 7 Home Edition 64 bit.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:22 AM   #5
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Home x64 should be fine. Check this link to be sure (quick comparison chart from Microsoft)

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...e/default.aspx
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:25 AM   #6
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So Win 7 Home Edition 64 bits is lighter. Can I run 32 bits applications such as ProTools 9 with a 64 bits OS? What about 32 bit plugins?

I understand from what you say that with a 64bit OS I can use up to 8 Gigs of ram if I decide to increase it and with 32 bits I can't go more than 4 Gigs of ram. Is this well understood?

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Old 01-21-2011, 10:25 AM   #7
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I have 32bit Pro - love it.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmusicpro View Post
So Win 7 Home Edition 64 bits is lighter. Can I run 32 bits applications such as ProTools 9 with a 64 bits OS? What about 32 bit plugins?

I understand from what you say that with a 64bit OS I can use up to 8 Gigs of ram if I decide to increase it and with 32 bits I can't go more than 4 Gigs of ram. Is this well understood?
Any W7 64-bit version would be fine.

One important thing to check: make sure all your hardware you are using (including the audio interface) have 64-bit drivers available either on their installation CD or on the companies' web sites.

Yes, the awesome part about 64-bit W7 is that you can still happily run 32-bit programs on it. However, 64-bit Reaper will easily run 64-bit AND 32-bit plugins simultaneously.

Even with only 4GB of RAM, a 32-bit edition of Windows is not taking full advantage of all that, only usually between 2-3GB. Some 32 bit DAWs can only use 2GB maximum RAM effectively, period. So a 64-bit OS with a 64-bit DAW, running 64-bit plugins, will definitely open up more system resources. You will get more RAM use out of 64-bit even if you do not upgrade to 8GB.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:42 AM   #9
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Win 7 pro 64 bits

Why? nothing is the OS is locked like in the home version (windows authentication, virtualisation, CPU multicore throttle, etc...). The pro version has every OS component unlocked and the bloat from the Ultimate is not activated.

The Home version is ok for internet, games and wordprocessing which is at least 80% of the retail market. Anything else, get the Pro.

The ultimate version is grand larceny and MS should be prosecuted for selling such a crapload of bloat.
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Old 01-21-2011, 11:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I have 32bit Pro - love it.
Same here and have had zero problems since I got this machine around 18 months ago. I'm not a big VSTi user so don't have a need for the extra memory access that comes with the 64-bit OS and my i7 gives me far more power than I need. If you're headed that direction, 64 would be a better choice.

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Old 01-21-2011, 12:05 PM   #11
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Building a new Sandy Bridge PC, and I plan on sticking with Win7 32 bit. I've had zero issues with it!

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Old 01-21-2011, 12:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Win 7 pro 64 bits

Why? nothing is the OS is locked like in the home version (windows authentication, virtualisation, CPU multicore throttle, etc...). The pro version has every OS component unlocked and the bloat from the Ultimate is not activated.

The Home version is ok for internet, games and wordprocessing which is at least 80% of the retail market. Anything else, get the Pro.

The ultimate version is grand larceny and MS should be prosecuted for selling such a crapload of bloat.
Ah!!! so there is a big difference according to this quote. Win 7 Pro 64 is better. But if I don't have 64 bit drivers for all my hardware that would be a problem?

Thanks.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmusicpro View Post
Ah!!! so there is a big difference according to this quote. Win 7 Pro 64 is better. But if I don't have 64 bit drivers for all my hardware that would be a problem?

Thanks.
"Better" is a relative term here. If you have 3 or more GB's of samples you need to load into memory to run your VSTi's, then W7 64 is better. If not, you're not likely to see an appreciable difference verse 32-bit. And YES...lack of 64-bit drivers for your hardware would be a big problem...depending on how much you like your hardware

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Old 01-21-2011, 01:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmusicpro View Post
Ah!!! so there is a big difference according to this quote. Win 7 Pro 64 is better. But if I don't have 64 bit drivers for all my hardware that would be a problem?

Thanks.
Of course! I assume you have proper drivers for your hardware. If not, you can settle to 32 bits and be happy. It will just limit memory management beyond 4 gigs and may be a "little" slower with multiprocessors...but I'd love to see benchmarks to prove this! ... never seen anything conclusive on that front.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:41 PM   #15
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Building a new Sandy Bridge PC, and I plan on sticking with Win7 32 bit. I've had zero issues with it!

Ben
You're planning on sticking with 4GB RAM (or less) for your new PC?
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Old 01-21-2011, 04:27 PM   #16
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I just ordered an extra 4gb of ram after reading this thread.

Ralised I was throttling my machine with "ONLY" 4GB

I`ll let you know how much difference it makes in both reaper and sonar 8.5.3
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vassago View Post
Of course! I assume you have proper drivers for your hardware. If not, you can settle to 32 bits and be happy. It will just limit memory management beyond 4 gigs and may be a "little" slower with multiprocessors...but I'd love to see benchmarks to prove this! ... never seen anything conclusive on that front.
Ok this answers my question. Thanks to all who posted here your help was really appreciated.

Ed.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:03 PM   #18
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I run home premium with Reaper 32. No issues.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:15 AM   #19
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Why upgrade if you're not going 64bit or wanting more RAM? What really is the difference, besides some file/folder handling & the GUI? Most hardware companies still support XP...

have a good one
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:21 AM   #20
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Running W7 Ultimate here with no issues. 64 bit with 8GB RAM in my studio and 32 bit with 4GB RAM on my laptop.
I'm running REAPER 32 bit on both systems and running plugins in dedicated processes on the studio rig to make use of the extra RAM.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:01 AM   #21
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I recently went Win7/64. I was very skeptical about driver issues and overall performance drop compared to WinXP/32.

I must say I'm pretty impressed how smoothly everything went. No driver problems at all. Few drivers were outdated (MS generic drivers), but Driver Genius Pro helped finding and installing newest drivers, I recommend it. What's best, it can backup all your installed drivers for future use if you ever want/need to reinstall your Windows.

Reaper32 works like a charm. It can utilize the whole 8 gigs of RAM when VST(i)s are bridged as dedicated processes, so not even 32bit main app is a problem.

Only one thing to think about is gfx card. I recommend using a powerful one, because Aero is really gfx intensive. My GeForce GTS 250 with 1 gig GDDR3 (with two 1280x1024 LCD monitors) gives me 6.9 gfx mark, which I think is more than enough to work with audio. Btw, my old 4-core Phenom 9600 gives 7.2 CPU mark, so I don't really need newer Intel processors.

HTH
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:20 AM   #22
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I recently went Win7/64. I was very skeptical about driver issues and overall performance drop compared to WinXP/32.

I must say I'm pretty impressed how smoothly everything went. No driver problems at all. Few drivers were outdated (MS generic drivers), but Driver Genius Pro helped finding and installing newest drivers, I recommend it. What's best, it can backup all your installed drivers for future use if you ever want/need to reinstall your Windows.

Reaper32 works like a charm. It can utilize the whole 8 gigs of RAM when VST(i)s are bridged as dedicated processes, so not even 32bit main app is a problem.

Only one thing to think about is gfx card. I recommend using a powerful one, because Aero is really gfx intensive. My GeForce GTS 250 with 1 gig GDDR3 (with two 1280x1024 LCD monitors) gives me 6.9 gfx mark, which I think is more than enough to work with audio. Btw, my old 4-core Phenom 9600 gives 7.2 CPU mark, so I don't really need newer Intel processors.

HTH
Just to add to this, Win7 is lighter on the CPU than Vista and has a comparable CPU hit than WinXP SP3, just slightly more intensive. As you said, the GPU does take a bit hit, visual bling has a cost.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:59 AM   #23
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I figure, I run W7 for its performance, not for the looks, so I set "Adjust for best performance", turning the "blings" off. It does not make my computing or music making experience any worse.

If I do gaming (rarely), it is usually older games I buy a year after they come out, so they are 1. cheaper, 2. run great on a newer system. I just have never encountered a "must have now" game. The same tactic works perfectly for VSTs as well. Plus, by then there have been patches and upgrades to fix bugs and instabilities.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:13 AM   #24
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True, Win7 runs pretty smooth freshly installed.

One thing that bugs me is the drastically increased memory consumption, though.

Btw, have you noticed that Win7 doesn't show how many megabytes it eats now? Just the percentage.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:04 PM   #25
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Are you using m-Audio hardware? You may want to read up on a few m-Audio forums if you are:

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread...768#post106768

Almost everyone is having problems with Windows7 64 bit. The interesting thing about this thread is that the OP is convinced that it's a problem with multi core CPUs and throttling, which it may be, and some of the posters are using 32 bit OS's.

If you search their other forums, though, you'll find a bunch who are blaming W7 64.

And yes - I'm having these problems with m-Audio and Windows 7 64.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moribund View Post
Are you using m-Audio hardware? You may want to read up on a few m-Audio forums if you are:

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread...768#post106768

Almost everyone is having problems with Windows7 64 bit. The interesting thing about this thread is that the OP is convinced that it's a problem with multi core CPUs and throttling, which it may be, and some of the posters are using 32 bit OS's.

If you search their other forums, though, you'll find a bunch who are blaming W7 64.

And yes - I'm having these problems with m-Audio and Windows 7 64.
This is just hilarious:

Quote:
1. Disable Network Cards and Audio Devices
2.Disable USB Power Management
3.Disable System Startup Items
4. Turn off User Account Control (okay, this makes sense)
5. Adjust Power Options (this also is okay)
6. Adjust Processor Scheduling
7. same as 6 for some reason
8. Disabling Screen Saver
9. Display Performance
10. Disable DEP
What's next? 11. Disable your CPU and memory?

Typical Avid... No wonder they "opened up" PT. You cannot run their hardware on Win7 properly anyway, it seems.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moribund View Post
Are you using m-Audio hardware? You may want to read up on a few m-Audio forums if you are:

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread...768#post106768

Almost everyone is having problems with Windows7 64 bit. The interesting thing about this thread is that the OP is convinced that it's a problem with multi core CPUs and throttling, which it may be, and some of the posters are using 32 bit OS's.

If you search their other forums, though, you'll find a bunch who are blaming W7 64.

And yes - I'm having these problems with m-Audio and Windows 7 64.
How can you responsibly blame those issues on Windows7...Clearly they lie in the fault of m-audio. I mean if Motu, RME, Echo, & numerous other audio interface mfr's. can run on Windows7 then why can't m-audio. It's a bit scary how Avid's corporate culture has made slight changes on the inside to m-audio that have made big changes on the outside.

have a good one
3Eo
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:23 AM   #28
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How can you responsibly blame those issues on Windows7...Clearly they lie in the fault of m-audio. I mean if Motu, RME, Echo, & numerous other audio interface mfr's. can run on Windows7 then why can't m-audio. It's a bit scary how Avid's corporate culture has made slight changes on the inside to m-audio that have made big changes on the outside.

have a good one
3Eo
I have to say I agree with you here. W7 has proven to work better out of the box for me than WinXP did on my studio rig. Everything just works. In WinXP, I had issues getting my Motu Midi Timepiece to work properly and had other issues with other bits of gear but this all just works perfectly under W7 64.

Interestingly, even my Digi gear (002 rack and Mbox2 Pro) work better in REAPER than they do in ProTools!! REAPER is clearly coded so much more efficiently and doesn't have years worth of outdated legacy code buried in mountains of bureaucracy to get in the way.
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:44 AM   #29
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This problem is kind of tricky. Originally it was blamed on inadequate 64 bit drivers, but if you read through the forum I linked to, you'll see that some guys are using a 32 bit OS. To make matters worse, some users finally said "m-Audio sucks, I'm buying something else" only to find that the new hardware had the same problems. There are also some people who have had issues with dual core CPUs. Here's my story:

dual core AMD, Windows 2K, Delta 1010LT - no issues
quad core AMD, Windows 7 64, Delta 1010 LT - issues.

While it is possible and maybe likely that the way Windows 7 handles CPU throttling may be causing the problem, in my mind it's m-Audio's responsibility to make sure that their drivers work under this environment.

Also, it's worth noting that the issues aren't insurmountable; it's just really irritating when some static shows up on a recorded track. I'm not doing live stuff, and there are always multiple takes anyway, so I work around it.

It's not ideal though...

Last edited by moribund; 01-23-2011 at 10:46 AM. Reason: forgot some stuff
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:59 PM   #30
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True, there is a BIT of trickiness with the issue. When you switch to a 64-bit operating system, there are a few variables that may be the cause of audio problems:

1. The 64-bit OS
2. The 64-drivers for the audio interface
3. The 64-bit DAW
4. The 64-bit plugin
5. Mixing/matching of any or all of the above with 32-bit elements

In my personal experience (and I am not minimizing the problems other people are having or dismissing OS problem claims), everything, and I literally mean EVERYTHING in my studio worked immediately with W7. Reaper, my audio interfaces, all plugins (all 20+ components of Komplete 7, 12 different EWQL PLAY engine titles, Sonic Reality Infinity Player), and even ReWiring to Reason. All I had to do was download the latest 64-bit drivers from the respective manufacturers' web sites. If my piece of hardware was newer and it already came with 64-bit drivers, those worked right out of the box.

Is there a certain level of luck involved? Yes, most likely. But generally, after a decade or two of dealing with computer-based music production, one learns a few tips and tricks to tweak a computer and troubleshoot some problems. I know, it is not as easy as the cliché "Just get a Mac" solution, but I firmly believe that, except for Logic, I have more hardware and software choices on the PC, and W7 seems to have finally gotten to a point where it can be confidently used in all sorts of music production environments, including [GASP!] live performances. Furthermore, a 64-bit environment does open up access to more system resources.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:03 PM   #31
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Any thoughts on XP 64 vs. 7 64? Or are there no drivers vor XP 64 anyway?
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Which Win7 version is better for an audio only PC?
Home Premium x64

Use Pro x64 if you need:
* more than 16 GB of RAM
* extreme power (a dual socket server-style DAW)
* long-term support from Microsoft

Avoid Starter and Ultimate like the plague (both are crap).


Windows 7 vs. Windows XP
--------------------------
Win7
-----
+ better multiprocessor utilization (optimized for 4+ cores)
+ runs great when CPU power-saving options are enabled
+ eye candy

- uses a lot of RAM, even when optimized to the max.
- partial 2D acceleration (in many cases it uses the CPU to render UI elements)

WinXP
------
+ performs better at extremely low latencies (e.g. 32 samples)
+ low memory footprint
+ full 2D UI acceleration. Lightning-fast even with the crappiest graphics card.

- runs like crap when CPU power-saving options are enabled (especially with AMD Phenom CPUs)
- not recommended for internet / browsing (poor security)
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:19 PM   #33
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Most hardware manufacturers rather write drivers for W7 64 than support XP 64, which has never had as big of an user base as W7 64 does. W7 64 comes pre-installed on a lot of new computers simply because it can take advantage of the 64-bit system components. XP 64 was mainly an user choice, and rarely OEM install on machines.

As Microsoft support for XP will eventually cease, manufacturers probably do not want to invest resources into drivers for the 64-bit version. For 32 bits, yes, because a large number of users did not trust Vista enough to upgrade to it.

W7 is viewed as a much more reliable upgrade from XP than Vista has ever been.

If some hardware manufacturer had XP 64 drivers for a product, and that hardware is still actively supported, the manufacturer will probably release W7 64 bit drivers for it.

In some cases, while this is HIGHLY experimental, but has been verified with some hardware, such as the E-Mu 1820m audio interface, the Vista 64-bit drivers work with W7 64 bit. This should not be taken for granted, though, for all products.
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