Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

The wrapping makes sense for SeletedTrackFXMenuSlot where you're only on one track

I think that's what @Freex was talking about, unfortunately.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I think that's what @Freex was talking about, unfortunately.

Ok ignore my comment about the SelectedTrackFXMenuSlot...that one went away.

The SelectedTrackSendSlot and SelectedTrackReceiveSlot navigators are indeed wrapping based on the max count. For those two, I think it should wrap at the max for the selected channel. Just makes sense that I have 4 sends, that it wraps after 4, and if I move to a track with 2 sends, it wraps after 2.

For TrackSendSlot and ReceiveTrackSlot, there I think it needs to wrap at max channel slot #.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Ok ignore my comment about the SelectedTrackFXMenuSlot...that one went away.

Pretty sure that's the one we're talking about The problem is that it loops around the max number of FX on a track in the project, when it needs to loop around the number of FX on the selected track to allow sync with plugin GUIs.

The SelectedTrackSendSlot and SelectedTrackReceiveSlot navigators are indeed wrapping based on the max count. For those two, I think it should wrap at the max for the selected channel. Just makes sense that I have 4 sends, that it wraps after 4, and if I move to a track with 2 sends, it wraps after 2.

I don't think it really matters with these, there's no GUI to stay in sync with, but if they were the same as the SelectedTrackFXMenuNavigator it would be less confusing.

For TrackSendSlot and ReceiveTrackSlot, there I think it needs to wrap at max channel slot #.

This is what happens currently and it's fine

[MixMonkey]

We've been a bit spoiled by being able to build things like this:

Zone "SelectedTrackFXMenu"
   SelectedTrackFXMenuNavigator
    FXMenuDisplay|          FXMenuNameDisplay
    Shift+FXMenuButton|     Reaper "_S&M_FXBYP|"       //Bypass FX Slot
    Option+FXMenuButton|    Reaper "_S&M_FXOFF|"       //Offline FX slot
    FXMenuButton|           Reaper "_S&M_SHOWFXCHAIN|"
    FXMenuButton|           Reaper "_S&M_SELFX|"
    FXMenuButton|           GoFXSlot
ZoneEnd

...where selecting an FX from the FXMenu opens an FX chain window with the correct FX GUI displayed.

[Funkybot]

Couldn't agree more!

[Geoff Waddington]

Loving this discussion, it's showing how doors are opening up with the new architecture

Wanted to run this by anyone interested and listening -- in upgrading EuCon support we may have to require Catalina as a minimum, anyone hate that ?

[cjewellstudios]

I've reverted back to TouchOSC mk1 for the time being so I can catch up.

Really great job everyone!

Did these things ever make it in?

SelectedTrackSendBank
SelectedTrackReceiveBank
SelectedTrackFXMenuBank

I'm testing selected track receives at the moment:

TrackReceivePrePost
TrackReceivePrePostDisplay

These actions both have feedback but no control. Pretty confident I have my widgets/zone set up correctly.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Loving this discussion, it's showing how doors are opening up with the new architecture

Wanted to run this by anyone interested and listening -- in upgrading EuCon support we may have to require Catalina as a minimum, anyone hate that ?

I'm not a Mac user, but maybe keep CSI 1.0 around for folks running older versions of Reaper and keep the current-state Eucon build around for those running pre-Catalina Mac OS builds. So basically CSI 1.1 as a new download and a CSI 1.1 Eucon build. Just a thought.

[Geoff Waddington]

Also thinking of dropping Windows 32 bit support for v1.1 -- anyone still using 32 bit Windows ?

If we can drop Windows 32 bit, we might be able to put the EuCon stuff in the main CSI build.

And yes, v1.0 will remain a stable legacy version, complete with EuCon build.

[edit] Yes, we can put all the dlls and dylibs for CSI and EuCon in one package !!

While we're at it let's deal with the elephant in the room, poor little guy has been sitting there patiently for some time now

The CSI folder.

My current feeing is that the build should have a very minimal, not overwhelming list of usual suspects -- MCU, and a few of the more popular ones -- just simple get you up and running type stuff.

Now that we are stable, I think it's time to maintain a separate download for the "grande" CSI folder which actually does include the kitchen sink and all sorts of wild experimental files to get ideas from.

Having each Zone in it's own file is our friend here, you could be using Bill's Channel setup with Joe's Send rig config, etc.

[spkr4thdd]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Loving this discussion, it's showing how doors are opening up with the new architecture

Wanted to run this by anyone interested and listening -- in upgrading EuCon support we may have to require Catalina as a minimum, anyone hate that ?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I still use a 2010 Mac Pro currently for my studio machine and it's unlikely I'll ever get past Mojave, so that would be a deal breaker for me and I'm just getting back in to CSI and loving the versatility.

[spkr4thdd]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Now that we are stable, I think it's time to maintain a separate download for the "grande" CSI folder which actually does include the kitchen sink and all sorts of wild experimental files to get ideas from.

Having each Zone in it's own file is our friend here, you could be using Bill's Channel setup with Joe's Send rig config, etc.

I've spent most of this past seeking tweaking/adjusting my 1.0 setup to get my zones pretty much there with holding notes for the send slots/fx slots piece and touch response etc for when I join the Exp/1.1 train.

Other than the splitting everything in to separate zones is there anything specific to know? Do we need modifiers repeated in every zone? Are there any 'best practices' from those who have helped get you where we are with regards to using separate zones for certain things? Is it easier to have an MCP zone and TCP zone which cover everything in a block, or loads of little zones for each style/kind of widget?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by spkr4thdd

I can't speak for anyone else, but I still use a 2010 Mac Pro currently for my studio machine and it's unlikely I'll ever get past Mojave, so that would be a deal breaker for me and I'm just getting back in to CSI and loving the versatility.

Yeah, I resisted too, was on Mojave until last week, Apple makes it hard not to upgrade if you are a user, but you should see what it's like if you're a programmer

That's not necessarily bad, keeps things moving, but does put folks in tough positions at times...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by spkr4thdd

I've spent most of this past seeking tweaking/adjusting my 1.0 setup to get my zones pretty much there with holding notes for the send slots/fx slots piece and touch response etc for when I join the Exp/1.1 train.

Other than the splitting everything in to separate zones is there anything specific to know? Do we need modifiers repeated in every zone? Are there any 'best practices' from those who have helped get you where we are with regards to using separate zones for certain things? Is it easier to have an MCP zone and TCP zone which cover everything in a block, or loads of little zones for each style/kind of widget?

Modifiers haven't need that repeating trick for ages

Just split the Zones, but you will also have to rename some of them, @Funkybot posted an excellent sheet a few pages back that we really should get that into the wiki -- maybe he already did

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Loving this discussion, it's showing how doors are opening up with the new architecture

Wanted to run this by anyone interested and listening -- in upgrading EuCon support we may have to require Catalina as a minimum, anyone hate that ?

Although I have no dog in the Eucon race, Catalina is fine with me. My 2012 MacBook Pro can't go any further and it's working so well on my 3 x Hackintoshes that I'm unlikely to change it. Plus I get the feeling that anything Apple does from now on will be targeted at their own silicon, not Intel's.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

My current feeing is that the build should have a very minimal, not overwhelming list of usual suspects -- MCU, and a few of the more popular ones -- just simple get you up and running type stuff.

Totally agree with this.

[MixMonkey]

One thing I wanted to mention now that the Broadcast/Receive stuff is working well, could you fix it so that the FX Zone folder can be read from an alias/symlink?

Broadcast/Receive of FX related Actions requires multiple copies of the same FX Zone folder for different surfaces and at the moment these have to be 'real' copies- which makes additions/alterations to fx.zon a bit of a pain.

I've got round the problem by using the syncing software (Resilio Sync) that I use to keep all the computers on the same page, to sync the FX Zone folders locally, but really, this is a sledghammer to crack a nut

[Funkybot]

Regarding the future of Eucon and Mac builds, I can't help but think of Apple silicon support in CSI. The last Apple PC we had was an Apple II back when I was a kid, but the second Apple announces that 16" Macbook Pro that's expected later this year, I'll be putting in an order. I'm sure, I, and others with M1 processors, will then start gently nagging Geoff for M1 compatibility.

I'm not sure if ditching support for pre-Catalina OS'es will help make for a smoother transition to Apple silicon builds, but if it would, then in my head, that's another reason in favor of doing it.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

My current feeing is that the build should have a very minimal, not overwhelming list of usual suspects -- MCU, and a few of the more popular ones -- just simple get you up and running type stuff.

Now that we are stable, I think it's time to maintain a separate download for the "grande" CSI folder which actually does include the kitchen sink and all sorts of wild experimental files to get ideas from.

Having each Zone in it's own file is our friend here, you could be using Bill's Channel setup with Joe's Send rig config, etc.

Would it be possible to use the Wiki to host the extended surface files? This way users can pick up files a-la carte for their particular surface without needing to download a whole zip files full of surfaces they may not need. The wiki may also help facilitate browsing other surface.zon files to find things like Bill's channel setup with Joe's killer Send config. Or, MixMonkey's killer Fxmenu setup!

[Freex]

For a while now, I've been deleting all you guys crap files from my install. LOL

I think I asked about a database of surface zones, FXzones etc, a while back, I def thought about it.

[Geoff Waddington]

Just posted another great @UNdark FX video to the wiki.

Thanks @UNdark !

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Although I have no dog in the Eucon race, Catalina is fine with me. My 2012 MacBook Pro can't go any further and it's working so well on my 3 x Hackintoshes that I'm unlikely to change it. Plus I get the feeling that anything Apple does from now on will be targeted at their own silicon, not Intel's.

Yeah, Catalina helps bridge the gap ever so slightly...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

One thing I wanted to mention now that the Broadcast/Receive stuff is working well, could you fix it so that the FX Zone folder can be read from an alias/symlink?

Broadcast/Receive of FX related Actions requires multiple copies of the same FX Zone folder for different surfaces and at the moment these have to be 'real' copies- which makes additions/alterations to fx.zon a bit of a pain.

I've got round the problem by using the syncing software (Resilio Sync) that I use to keep all the computers on the same page, to sync the FX Zone folders locally, but really, this is a sledghammer to crack a nut

Same issue as before, totally at the mercy of the filesystem support, although that support is likely better as we move the ball forward, so yeah, will definitely revisit.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Regarding the future of Eucon and Mac builds, I can't help but think of Apple silicon support in CSI. The last Apple PC we had was an Apple II back when I was a kid, but the second Apple announces that 16" Macbook Pro that's expected later this year, I'll be putting in an order. I'm sure, I, and others with M1 processors, will then start gently nagging Geoff for M1 compatibility.

I'm not sure if ditching support for pre-Catalina OS'es will help make for a smoother transition to Apple silicon builds, but if it would, then in my head, that's another reason in favor of doing it.

Yup, right you are !

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Would it be possible to use the Wiki to host the extended surface files? This way users can pick up files a-la carte for their particular surface without needing to download a whole zip files full of surfaces they may not need. The wiki may also help facilitate browsing other surface.zon files to find things like Bill's channel setup with Joe's killer Send config. Or, MixMonkey's killer Fxmenu setup!

That's a great idea !!

Will look into that GitHub has to offer in that regard...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Freex

For a while now, I've been deleting all you guys crap files from my install. LOL

I think I asked about a database of surface zones, FXzones etc, a while back, I def thought about it.

Yes, you and others have advocated for this for a while, almost back to the beginning

I think we are now stable enough to begin to realize the dream

[Geoff Waddington]

OK, time to start thinking about what CSI v1.1 beta looks like.

I think it simply contains the following files:

reaper_csurf_integrator.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_integrator.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever
reaper_csurf_eucon.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever

A simple CSI folder to get folks going.


Missing anyting ?

[Freex]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

OK, time to start thinking about what CSI v1.1 beta looks like.

I think it simply contains the following files:

reaper_csurf_integrator.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_integrator.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever
reaper_csurf_eucon.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever

A simple CSI folder to get folks going.


Missing anyting ?

Maybe an FX zone for say ReaEQ and the raw file for same.

Just to give and example.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

OK, time to start thinking about what CSI v1.1 beta looks like.

I think it simply contains the following files:

reaper_csurf_integrator.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_integrator.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever
reaper_csurf_eucon.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever

A simple CSI folder to get folks going.


Missing anyting ?

I'd recommend including the CSI\Surface and CSI\Zone folders along with the basics of an MCU zone and maybe the C4 TouchOSC files, and I like FreeX's idea of including a ReaEQ fx.zon example. I'd also recommend create an FX Zone sub-folder for said file. I think as a best practice, we should be encouraging a CSI\Zone\[Surface]\FX Zones\ type of file path layout (now more than ever with multiple .zon files to create a single surface).

Also, I'm not sure if you can do this in the code (might even already do this), but if no csi.ini exists, it would be cool if CSI could automatically create the home page on opening of the CSI preferences. It seems like new users get tripped up on that step and just jump right to "Add MIDI."

[Freex]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Just posted another great @UNdark FX video to the wiki.

Thanks @UNdark !

I'm less than 2 mins in and already seeing how I'm only using 1% of the possibilities of CSI, and he hasn't finished his intro. LOL

[spkr4thdd]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I think it simply contains the following files:

reaper_csurf_integrator.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_integrator.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever
reaper_csurf_eucon.dll -- now 64 bit only
reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib -- signed for Catalina and above -- has been 64 bit only forever

Does this mean it can't be installed on pre Catalina, or simply that we need to authorise it?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Freex

Maybe an FX zone for say ReaEQ and the raw file for same.

Just to give and example.

Good idea, don't know if ReaEQ is the best example though.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'd recommend including the CSI\Surface and CSI\Zone folders along with the basics of an MCU zone and maybe the C4 TouchOSC files, and I like FreeX's idea of including a ReaEQ fx.zon example. I'd also recommend create an FX Zone sub-folder for said file. I think as a best practice, we should be encouraging a CSI\Zone\[Surface]\FX Zones\ type of file path layout (now more than ever with multiple .zon files to create a single surface).

Also, I'm not sure if you can do this in the code (might even already do this), but if no csi.ini exists, it would be cool if CSI could automatically create the home page on opening of the CSI preferences. It seems like new users get tripped up on that step and just jump right to "Add MIDI."

Yup, good stuff, all CSI folder structure will be there, just not so many surfaces.

I'm thinking a CSI.ini with a HomePage, and maybe even one MCU surface, it's so ubiquitous.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by spkr4thdd

Does this mean it can't be installed on pre Catalina, or simply that we need to authorise it?

No, the first beta will just have everything as it exists now, but we will move towards the Catalina model as we proceed through beta, giving folks time to adjust.

[Freex]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Good idea, don't know if ReaEQ is the best example though.

Just thinking something that is standard and comes as default with reaper.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Freex

Just thinking something that is standard and comes as default with reaper.

Yup, totally get that, just that ReaEQ params are not the smoothest, and you can add/delete EQ sections.

Wonder if there is a better one ?

[Freex]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yup, totally get that, just that ReaEQ params are not the smoothest, and you can add/delete EQ sections.

Wonder if there is a better one ?

Yeah that's true, the pramas change everytime you add another freq. I'd forgot about that.

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up

CSI v1.1 beta.zip

Just to check the new packaging.

I think the CSI folder is about right -- I haven't checked in detail -- just overall approach.

What say you good folk ?

[Funkybot]

Tripped me up for a sec with the "64" removed from the file names of the Windows.dll's. Could easily end up with two versions of CSI installed and not realizing you're using the old one.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up

CSI v1.1 beta.zip

Just to check the new packaging.

I think the CSI folder is about right -- I haven't checked in detail -- just overall approach.

What say you good folk ?

Looks fine here Needs the proper 1.1 style Zone files, obviously.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Looks fine here Needs the proper 1.1 style Zone files, obviously.

Yes, that's just what I'd like to do -- put some serious effort into making the few files as perfect as we can.

Is there a way to parcel out that work amongst ourselves ?