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Old 04-08-2017, 09:48 PM   #1
jayache80
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Default Plugin windows always on top, Mixer window always behind

SUMMARY:
Destroy the "pin". Make all plug-in windows on top. Make the mixer windows always behind.

REQUEST:
Plug-in windows often are hidden behind the mixer or editing window. Even when they've been "pinned". This is aggravating. Make plug-ins ALWAYS on top. Make the mixer always behind as well. Destroy the pin- we shouldn't have to click on that tiny little pin to get what should be a default behavior.

BENEFIT:
Everyone, especially people with dual monitor setups, would find this plug-in window management scheme far more usable. That current phenomenon of plug-ins windows ever being hidden behind another window is counter-intuitive and should never occur.

REASON:
Poor window management is a big turn-off. I've switched back to pro tools for certain sessions because I just couldn't take it anymore. This (old) thread is full of people who are being driven nuts as well: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=77481
There are other threads as well of people complaining about the same thing.

IMPLEMENTATION SUGGESTION:
Just make the plug-in windows behave in an "always on top" fashion. Make the mixer window behave in a "always on the bottom" fashion. While you're at it, fix the mixer window!!! When the mixer window is maximized, the bottom portion is hidden behind the taskbar (windows 7/8/10)! It's very annoying to have to cautiously re-size a mixer window to "near" maximum, when I should be able to depend on the OS's window maximizing capability and get an expected result of a non-truncated window that is maximized.
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Old 04-08-2017, 10:08 PM   #2
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+1

Why the mixer EVER goes over a floating plugin window is beyond me.
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Old 04-08-2017, 10:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayache80 View Post
While you're at it, fix the mixer window!!! When the mixer window is maximized, the bottom portion is hidden behind the taskbar (windows 7/8/10)!
I've seen that ^ happen in Win10, Justin's reply here fixed it for me.
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Old 04-09-2017, 11:41 AM   #4
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+1 from my side.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
I've seen that ^ happen in Win10, Justin's reply here fixed it for me.
Holy crap, thanks! I had no idea. Totally fixed the "maximize" problem.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:30 AM   #6
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I think there is something technical with how windows prioritize which makes things difficult to implement in practice.

For the mixer going on top of plugins, that won't ever happen if you don't have your mixer pinned. I can't think of any situation where you would want it pinned, either. So I would imagine that unpinning it, will immediately solve another good portion of your gripes.

plugins always on top would be fine with me, but when you set a pin, I think it sets a specific level of hierarchy based on what level currently exists. Meaning, if you open a new plugin on top of your old one, and pin it, it will be the highest, but if you then unpin your old one, and re-pin it, it now becomes the topmost plugin, which I do find can be handy.

Some people may also want plugins to be able to hide.

There are a number of actions you can work with to quickly and easily access plugins.

I use a set of preferences, that make sure that when I'm in a midi editor I have its track selected. I also have a mouse button which opens the topmost plugin, and my middle scroll side to side cycles through plugins closing one, and opening the next.

You might be able to use actions like that, to essentially reopen the last plugin you were just using, which might help you out as well.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:38 AM   #7
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Yeah. Using mixer at fullscreen is impossible cause plugins config windows always stay under this mixer so yeah...it's strange bug or something.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:55 AM   #8
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Read Edgemeal's post above and do that. It's not a bug.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
For the mixer going on top of plugins, that won't ever happen if you don't have your mixer pinned.
That`s not correct if you have a docked mixer in a floating (and unpinned) docker on a second monitor unfortunately.

Last edited by nofish; 04-10-2017 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
That`s not correct if you have a docked mixer in a floating (and unpinned) docker on a second monitor unfortunately.
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, and don't understand how an unpinned mixer could ever get on top of pinned plugins.
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Old 04-10-2017, 12:36 PM   #11
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+1000 Please ¡¡¡

I Have to click the plugin pin each time I open an instance.

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Old 04-10-2017, 01:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, and don't understand how an unpinned mixer could ever get on top of pinned plugins.
On top of pinned plugins it doesn't indeed. But to quote this FR:

Quote:
Destroy the "pin". Make all plug-in windows on top. Make the mixer windows always behind.
Problems related to pinning:

- http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=169850
- Pinning "breaks" when minimising / maximising Reaper (pinned FX go behind floating Mixer / Docker).

https://i.imgur.com/pE1r34I.gif

Last edited by nofish; 04-10-2017 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:16 PM   #13
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You can't make all plugins always on top without an exit strategy/setting as that is as system wide window flag - you'll end up with a dialog you cannot get to without killing a process or logging off. And there is already a setting for fixing the mixer hiding behind the task bar.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
You can't make all plugins always on top without an exit strategy/setting as that is as system wide window flag - you'll end up with a dialog you cannot get to without killing a process or logging off. And there is already a setting for fixing the mixer hiding behind the task bar.
Without being able to the set the mixer as "always at rear", or having a default setting for plugins, we have to manually pin every single FX window.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
Without being able to the set the mixer as "always at rear", or having a default setting for plugins, we have to manually pin every single FX window.
This is true, and annoying, but there are worse things. Also that doesn't fixed the docked minimized situation nofish was talking about.

I have the mixer bound to a mouse button for my thumb, so I press it, and it goes full screen, then for plugins, I need to make sure I pin them, which I'm getting pretty used to, but it still gets me.

I think the devs are well aware of this, and I'm sure they agree that it sucks, but I think the logistics of fixing it are just really rough, and really, pressing a pin button every time you open a plugin is not the end of the world.

What's annoying to me, is that I feel like its an instance, where I always want to run the same command at the same time, which is basically "hit the pin button after the plugins has loaded" But "plugin is loaded" probably isn't a thing with a name that you can check for.

If it is, I would take some extra load time, to add checks to see if the plugin is loaded, and then check for a pin, and do that until it finds a pin. Of course the pin might be a toggle only command, then you'd have to settle for toggle, which usually wouldn't be a problem, but sometimes it would be, meaning loading the FX would remove the pin rather than add it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
Without being able to the set the mixer as "always at rear", or having a default setting for plugins, we have to manually pin every single FX window.
True, but there is no OS flag to pass for "always on bottom" like there is for awot AFAIK. There is HWND_BOTTOM but I don't 'think' that means always. I think it just means push it to the bottom of the z-order when the call is made. I also don't know if this is the API cockos uses but is the one I'm usually speaking of.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx

I obviously wouldn't mind the functionality, I just think they could be dealing with a can of worms.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:23 PM   #17
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+20 quadzillion

I JUST made a post about this today ( http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=190668 )

My plugins USED TO default to pinned on top state, but yesterday they started defaulting to un-pinned. I have no clue why.
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Old 04-22-2017, 09:11 AM   #18
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If I only had one feature request, this would be it.
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayache80 View Post
Just make the plug-in windows behave in an "always on top" fashion. Make the mixer window behave in a "always on the bottom" fashion.
+1 Would love to see that implemented!

Attached is another one of my possible workarounds for Window users.
Make windows in Reaper (like plugins) always on top (AOT), so they stay in front of the mixer,etc...

Downloads will posted in Stash/Misc, search for, "AOT For Reaper".

Last edited by Edgemeal; 04-30-2018 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:34 PM   #20
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AOT. I love it. Thanks again, Edgemeal!
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:56 PM   #21
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Instead of the pin, there could be a z-order value (0-9 or custom range), and in preferences there would be defaults for different types of windows. You could assign 3 to plugins, 2 to mixer, 1 to midi editors and so on. Maybe Shift-select to change value for all windows of that layer, Ctrl-click to reset to lowest, etc.
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Old 07-31-2017, 07:51 AM   #22
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Sometimes I want to bring the mixer up for a while in front of plugin windows I've opened in the TCP.

Some plugins instantiate on my master pinned, but not on other tracks, and not all plugins.. I guess I did that at some point, but I don't know how.
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Old 07-31-2017, 09:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Sometimes I want to bring the mixer up for a while in front of plugin windows I've opened in the TCP.
AFAIK there is no option/action to hide/show only the plugin windows, Not sure I really follow, but there is the Action,
Toggle show all floating windows (except Mixer)
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Old 07-31-2017, 09:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
AFAIK there is no option/action to hide/show only the plugin windows, Not sure I really follow, but there is the Action,
Toggle show all floating windows (except Mixer)
I mean that I don't always want the fx window in front of the mixer window.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I mean that I don't always want the fx window in front of the mixer window.
Are you using my AOT app or just using Reaper by itself?
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Are you using my AOT app or just using Reaper by itself?
Just reaper by itself.
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Just reaper by itself.
Well there is no option to open a plugin (or any window) with the pin set to a specific state, the pins are set to whatever state they were when that window was last used. On Windows seems all the pin states are saved to "reaper-pinstates.ini", so when I delete that file then obviously all windows open with the pin in the off state initially.

Maybe someone else can offer better help (I don't even use the Reaper's pins anymore).
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Well there is no option to open a plugin (or any window) with the pin set to a specific state, the pins are set to whatever state they were when that window was last used. On Windows seems all the pin states are saved to "reaper-pinstates.ini", so when I delete that file then obviously all windows open with the pin in the off state initially.

Maybe someone else can offer better help (I don't even use the Reaper's pins anymore).
How strange.

Could be something accidentally saved in my default project (there are no instantiated plugins, but I might have instantiated and then removed some before saving as default project)? Why would it be different on the master than normal tracks? Because the master opens floating windows and tracks open the fx browser?
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:07 AM   #29
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I also think the plugin window doesn't need it's own menu system. It should just be added to the main REAPER menu system.

Even though some things were added to "Ignore FX Chain Shortcuts and send to main window". I still don't see the benefit or need for the FX window having it's own menu system.

It would greatly improve the experience if it was just part of the normal menu system like most other DAWs.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:31 PM   #30
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i use external payed software

actual window manager

working efficiently with multiple monitors and tons of windows without this prog is basically impossible imho , but even then there are edge cases , so i use an autohotkeyscript to bring back all small windows from behind the midi editor ..
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:02 PM   #31
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I just use Ritchie Lawrence's CMDOW on github to bring any window titled "vst*" to the top and position it wherever I want it. You just have to write a simple batch file and pin it to your Taskbar. This is Windows only however.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:09 AM   #32
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Thank you Edgemeal you made my day with that AoT tool! The advanced pref posted by justin didn't fix my issue (with a docked mixer) but AoT did. So happy!
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vectorwarrior View Post
Thank you Edgemeal you made my day with that AoT tool!
Glad you find it useful, update/bump,...
Links in post #19

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Old 03-31-2018, 08:12 PM   #34
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Just started working with a touchscreen under my main screen, using a floating mixer. I'm assuming there has still been no fix implemented for this?

I did find that keeping the mixer docked and just stretching the window across the 2 screens worked to fix this problem, though I'm not sure if this will create any other problems for me.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:09 AM   #35
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I've been using Reaper for more or less 2 months, I'm absolutely in love with it.
But in the first days I already knew this issue was going to be a real mindf*ck.
I don't think this could even qualify as a "feature request" but ok, YES, PLEASE,this thing should be a priority.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:55 AM   #36
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+1

Hey thanks for posting this so clearly.

Yes I totally agree. I have some issues with this when in the mixer fullscreen on my single monitor. Lets say I have an FX open and go click another track to adjust or open its FX window side by side it happens to hide the first FX instance behind the mixer (mixer not pinned)

I suggest implementing an option in the Reaper PREFERENCES to keep ALL FX windows on top of anything else with the new PASSTHROUGH option to always have keycommands working on the Main window. You can Mix very efficiently by pressing down markers to play sections etc and stay in the mix window with FXs on top also.

This option in Preferences would keep long time users habits and make the new option available for others.
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Old 07-01-2018, 10:10 AM   #37
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Hey devs- has anyone ever looked into this? I'm pretty sure there are a lot of us wanting "plug in windows always on top" default behavior.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:08 AM   #38
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+1 !!!
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:23 AM   #39
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Yes sir +1 please guys very important for some of us. I hope theres a solution for all users relating to this.

The mixer window fullscreen or maximized should never be over a FX window because it is just not logical in a mixing workflow using the fullscreen mixer on a single monitor. Please please code a eay to prioritize FX windows over the mixer no matter what circumstance or context. It is very annoying to mix without this feature. Thanks in advance
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:04 PM   #40
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Please see this Justin and schwa or please add it to a in progress list so it has a planned update

Thank you very much in advance
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