Old 12-30-2015, 06:38 AM   #1
thetonybliss
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Default Nodal Workflow

How come no DAW creator ever sought after a nodal workflow, i think the experimental and process workflow might jsut be phenomenal with it as opposed to the layered approach.It works for most with VFX Software.What might make it most powerful is the ability to switch between layered and nodal as per user preference if the code is programmed in non linear format allowing the track and fx (et al) structure to hold the same information based on the network topology used for the nodal structure.
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Old 12-30-2015, 07:00 AM   #2
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Agreed. Possibly. Depends a bit on what you mean by "nodal workflow". Is the stuff in applications like Plogue Bidule or Max/MSP similar to what you mean?
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Old 12-30-2015, 09:08 AM   #3
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NO!-dal.
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Old 12-30-2015, 09:29 AM   #4
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This would be interesting for procedural sound design and maybe MIDI composing, but I'm not sure how useful it would be for the primary use case of REAPER, recording and editing time-dependent musical performances as audio clips. (like NLEs treat recorded video)

Your suggestion of considering tracks as layers was intriguing, and made me think about the differences between audio tracks and layers of video. While digital audio and video are both signals technically, they differ in their base unit's relation to time, dependency with adjacent units and how our senses work. One video frame vs one sample of audio- we need a certain amount of adjacent samples to make any sense of audio, while a frame of video is just an image, independent of time. Perhaps extending the base unit to beats or bars would be more practical, and could offer new ways to mold sound?

There are several programs that offer a modular approach to music, like Plogue Bidule, Audiomulch and Sensomusic Usine. These deal with signal paths between inputs, generators, processors and outputs which aren't arranged on a timeline. These are very inspiring to work with when creating music, but the method doesn't translate as well to editing recordings.

On a deeper leverl, OpenMusic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMusic, Max/MSP, Puredata and other visual programming languages dealing with audio and music are flow-based and as such probably closest to node-based workflow... but it's perhaps not a coincidence that these have not been widely adopted as primary ways of DAW operation- Ableton Live Suite integrates Max/MSP into the main workflow, you might be interested in checking that out.
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Old 12-30-2015, 01:25 PM   #5
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I suggested the same thing. It was centered around sound design and intra-track routing.

Sometimes, when using multiple effects, it's useful to have easy control and readability/layout of routing (audio and midi). As well as a graphical representation of grouping and signal paths as well.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=169071
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:24 AM   #6
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Very much so Ozman!! Visually and method for workflow it would enhance things like adding effects/VSTs, routing, channel assignments, midi work ethic. I looked at your link .. love the prototype diagram you did. Beautiful thing is that it can go deeper or as simple as one would require. Visually and workflow wise it would be a great enhancement imho.
Thanks guys.
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:53 AM   #7
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I started my musical journey with Reason. I was in love with the ability to route things however I chose as well as having the visual aide of the wires. At times it felt like I was actually working with real gear. I've moved on from Reason, but now I do like nodes for the exact same reason. Unparalleled control of effects and sound source routing. Bidule and others like it are great, but Reaper needs it's own, b/c complex intra-track routing can be a nightmare right now.
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:57 AM   #8
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Also, fyi... some DAWs do have a nodal views (e.g. FL Studio).
And I think Ableton has one now (via Max4live).

Soon Bitwig will have one, I bet.

But Reaper really needs one. It just seems at times, that Reaper strongest points have been for recording artists in the past.

Hopefully, the developers will put more love into MIDI artists this year (MIDI enhancements) and sound design workflow options.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:10 PM   #9
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I remember seeing a group of European software developers (I wanna say they were from Spain) at the AES show in New York about 8 years ago who were presenting a Node based DAW. It was called audiohive and was geared toward post-production work for film/tv. I can't remember a lot of specifics about it, but I remember being very impressed with the workflow and thinking that more DAW developers should think about a node based approach.

Unfortunately I don't think they ever really got off the ground. The only reference I can find to it online anymore is an old kvr page with a link to a defunct website. Still if you're interested in this kind of thing the description from the kvr page is definitely worth reading through: http://www.kvraudio.com/product/audi...tudio_networks
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
I remember seeing a group of European software developers (I wanna say they were from Spain) at the AES show in New York about 8 years ago who were presenting a Node based DAW. It was called audiohive and was geared toward post-production work for film/tv. I can't remember a lot of specifics about it, but I remember being very impressed with the workflow and thinking that more DAW developers should think about a node based approach.

Unfortunately I don't they ever really got off the ground. The only reference I can find to it online anymore is an old kvr page with a link to a defunct website. Still if you're interested in this kind of thing the description from the kvr page is definitely worth reading through: http://www.kvraudio.com/product/audi...tudio_networks
Are there pictures of this thing or, something nodal in nauture, somewhere?
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Old 04-13-2016, 06:45 AM   #11
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Looks like mpl might be starting something along these lines:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...04#post1653004
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:55 PM   #12
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Default This is what i was suggesting to cockos!! Literally

if i was still programming i would have created a plugin for this for reaper, but better if it was done from core code .. too many creative and technical benefits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wHHbV8Zw4g
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:09 PM   #13
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There's this for intra-track wiring:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209768

And this for inter-track wiring (which can call the former when you doubleclick a track for intra-track wiring if you have the former installed):
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209761

But it seems Cockos is working on a track wiring view, so maybe at some point there will be something better than both native.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=220407
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke View Post


There's this for intra-track wiring:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209768

And this for inter-track wiring (which can call the former when you doubleclick a track for intra-track wiring if you have the former installed):
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=209761

But it seems Cockos is working on a track wiring view, so maybe at some point there will be something better than both native.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=220407
lol yes, resurrected from the underworld .. this thread

Thank you for links. Greatly appreciated!
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