Old 06-09-2017, 08:07 AM   #1
MetalMalte
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Default Behringer X 32 Live VST use

Hi guys,
i was wondering if enyone yet tried to not only track a live session with the behringer x32/midas m32 but also multi-channel-processed tracks meanwhile in reaper. similar to the waves native rack host.

i think it would be fun to test eg the slate virtual console to emulate a whole different console. the whole thing is pretty light weight so a decent computer should be able to run it in lets say 16 instance in low latency.

unfortunately i havent got a x/m 32 arround to test it atm.

Thanks for your replies!
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Old 06-09-2017, 08:36 AM   #2
serr
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You can simply use the x32 as an audio interface and ignore it's built-in mixer features if you wish. Reaper's a champ for running live sound. Use whatever plugins you want(*).

* With the disclaimer that their internal latency doesn't exceed your block size. (This would only come up with some heavy weight plugin that you probably wouldn't be using live anyway.)

Being familiar with running live sound gigs with Reaper as the DAW, if I patched an x32 in for an audio interface, I'd be mixing FOH with Reaper. I might run the monitors with the built-in mixer on the x32.

You mention console emulation...
Do you have live gigs where things are dialed in to that level (including the room) to where you could get 'boutique' like that and actually perceive it? I say that because there are usually a number of "meat n' potatoes" concerns going on with live sound where it's more about ease of the controls and keeping mayhem in check.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:56 AM   #3
MetalMalte
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First of all thanks a lot!

what i have in mind so far is to use the vst as a sole console emmulation. that way setting up/dialing in the vst shouldn't even take a minute.

the two bands i'm mainly working with do have a x32 rack for their in ear, so sharing channels with a m/x 32 on foh postition would be the easiest way to bring a reliable situation each time.

of course one could argue that any desk for more money will probably sound better (especially for the processing part of it) but when it comes to the ease of setup i'll rather stick to the x32 in-ear plus whatever 32 it will be for the foh. that way i'm also sure to have a handle on the inear without a need for a stable wifi connection - wich tends to lack as soon as festivals exceed a couple of thousand people as i already noticed several times ago.

with that said, yes there will defenetly be situations throughout this year where the foh and room/outdoor setup will be good enough to really profit from a better sounding console.*

*or the emulation of one

again thanks a ton! i'll post some of my impressions on that topic here as soon as i make them!
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:23 AM   #4
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I use an X32rack/S16 for more then a 100 shows a year.. I'm using Live Professor as VST host and use Slate Trigger for some samples and other plugins for extra Verbs and stuff.. I didn't go crazy with using plugs on channels for me.. Because I have to mix with tablet (Mixing Station Pro) and I can't tweak the plugs.. If I was on a console at FOH position all the time then I'm use the plugs more since I'd have a laptop right there. But for me walking around I can't. But it works well.. I started using Live Professor just because I felt like I was getting a tiny bit better latency then when using Reaper plus Trigger and trying not to have drums flam when hit.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
You can simply use the x32 as an audio interface and ignore it's built-in mixer features if you wish. Reaper's a champ for running live sound. Use whatever plugins you want(*).

* With the disclaimer that their internal latency doesn't exceed your block size. (This would only come up with some heavy weight plugin that you probably wouldn't be using live anyway.)

Being familiar with running live sound gigs with Reaper as the DAW, if I patched an x32 in for an audio interface, I'd be mixing FOH with Reaper. I might run the monitors with the built-in mixer on the x32.
.
I would love to hear more about this from you.

For a few months now, I have been using Reaper while doing live sound with an Allen & Heath QU16. I use the USB out of the mixer to send my lead vocal to Reaper for processing with plugins (along with the Voxengo SPAN rta). It's made mixing live so much more fun. I then only use that signal for my FOH mix, while the lead vocal in the monitors is still mixed from the QU-16 exclusively.

I am worried about relying too much on my computer/Reaper, however. Fortunately, if anything goes wrong, all I have to do is mute that channel where it returns on the QU16 and pull up one fader on the QU16 and keep going.

The most I have tried was also mixing the snare in Reaper to use the elysia nvelope for more attack when I get really light hitting players. It boggles my mind to think that I could get away with doing the whole FOH mix in Reaper.
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:12 AM   #6
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Here is a little rundown from my current setup that i posted in a fb group:

"I’m currently down to 4,6ms additional roundtrip latency @48khz via usb/ 16ch with either the stock card and the new x live card.

I’ve mixed between 50-100
shows (Bar gigs up to 2k people indoor) that way already and didn’t have a single dropout.

Therefore adding plugins (also inserts) to my foh mix has become a routine task with that setup.

In my experience this kind of latency doesn’t do any harm to your foh mix.

I never tried it on monitors though.

5,1ms (including 0,8ms from the desk) should be doable for wedges. For in ears I’m pretty sure it won’t.

Setup wise I’m running reaper via usb/asio and running mostly slate/waves plugins on a stock acer i7 4th generation with 16gb ram.

I highly recommend to use a program called “latency monitor” in a test run to see which drivers may slow down your real time audio processing (usually your wifi card will).

I also still have a user button configured to get the usb out of every channels signalpath at once. just in case (never had to use it so far). You should just make sure not to add gain in your pluginpath so your fallback option will work."

" I basically route every of the 16ch through the daw.
Make sure to only use plugins without a delay (eg reaper has a info for that in the plugin window).

The daw itself is delaycompensated so by routing everything through it there is no phasing issue caused by that.

I mainly use an instance of slate vmr on every channel. And then (or before) add waves stuff like bass/vocal rider. Maybe centre when im working with a rapper and a dj with to much backing vocals on a track.

As i said using it again on busses will add another roundtrip and therefore 4,6ms delay.

When testing I’ve done bigger rap shows with 9,2ms on the pa but wouldn’t do that with live instruments.

Since a lot of fx slots are freed up this way i tend to use the m32s compressor emulations (also not free of delay but much less) on busses."
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:43 PM   #7
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Any of you X32 or especially S32 owners know if the phantom power onboard is good enough for the CAD M179? Lots of mics are pretty tolerant about phantom voltage, but the M179 seems quite hungry and specific
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Old 09-06-2018, 03:14 PM   #8
serr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewh View Post
I would love to hear more about this from you.

For a few months now, I have been using Reaper while doing live sound with an Allen & Heath QU16. I use the USB out of the mixer to send my lead vocal to Reaper for processing with plugins (along with the Voxengo SPAN rta). It's made mixing live so much more fun. I then only use that signal for my FOH mix, while the lead vocal in the monitors is still mixed from the QU-16 exclusively.

I am worried about relying too much on my computer/Reaper, however. Fortunately, if anything goes wrong, all I have to do is mute that channel where it returns on the QU16 and pull up one fader on the QU16 and keep going.

The most I have tried was also mixing the snare in Reaper to use the elysia nvelope for more attack when I get really light hitting players. It boggles my mind to think that I could get away with doing the whole FOH mix in Reaper.
I made the jump to computer/interface/DAW for live sound in 2009 and haven't looked back. I do have some redundancy. Two interfaces - I could do a show with just one and only lose a few inputs and half my monitor channels. (I'd still have 18 mic inputs and 5 monitor mixes available.) My laptop is the backup computer. The Mac Pro has two SSD's with systems. (2nd system in the laptop is on an HDD. Might have to click stop on the multitrack capture if it got down to that one.)

My control surface is a couple USB MIDI controllers and an iPad all over two wifi channels. Obviously this isn't as elegant to run as a full mixer laid out in front of you but the convenience and roaming ability (and not having to coil up a beer soaked snake at the end of the night) more than make up for it. The stage is my home base now. I dial up monitors standing directly in front of them and next to the musicians. This I like very much!

Having Reaper for your FOH mix is bionic!
Need two deessers on that lead vocal to battle sss's and cymbal bleed? No problem! clicky clicky

You know how just pushing up a fader on a Neve (or similar class A large console) just sounds full and great before you even touch an eq? Whereas the small/medium boards out there just don't sound that good. Plug some decent mic pres into your interface and mixing on Reaper is more like the Neve. You will absolutely notice this just like walking up to that big board!

cons:
Mostly centered around wifi. (Go figure!)
If both systems go down or there's mad interference it can be a little disconcerting. If you need to make quick moves - say, doing some dub delay tricks with a reggae band - you want to have powerful wifi.
So that's pissed me off a couple times!
So if you're having wifi troubles, careful with those delay send moves! The nightmare situation would be wifi cutting out just after you cranked up the send to a delay (which would lead to runaway feedback).

Last edited by serr; 09-06-2018 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Any of you X32 or especially S32 owners know if the phantom power onboard is good enough for the CAD M179? Lots of mics are pretty tolerant about phantom voltage, but the M179 seems quite hungry and specific
It's a mixer on mains power. I've never seen a mixer that had trouble powering any phantom powered mic.

And, yes, my AKG C451's don't always work on USB bus powered interfaces. With the Sound Devices, fi, they can take up to a minute to stop behaving weirdly. And on some other devices they don't work at all. I should probably recap them...

Can't remember if I used the AKG's on the X32, though. Probably not, as it's used for live. I'll test it when the X32 gets back in.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:33 AM   #10
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Default X32 Scenes

Has anyone used Reaper to poll an X32 for the current scene in use?
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