Cockos: Please talk to us about the white backgrounds

[dasombre]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Now, THIS would be a good start... Notice the similarity to colors used in item properties, which is docked on the right side.

[IMG]http://img101.**************/img101/2550/fxbrowsercolors.th.png[/IMG]


After this is done, bring it down to one column and that's about it! Perfect for docking.


Notice that I removed the tab itself. Currently we CANNOT do that when we dock the FX browser. WHY?

this would make reaper look soooooo much more unified and not so "patchworked"

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Now, THIS would be a good start...

[IMG]http://img101.**************/img101/2550/fxbrowsercolors.th.png[/IMG]

Most of that stuff from "properties" belongs in an inspector imo but I suppose that's not anything on the table currently.

[EvilDragon]

So did you like the mockup?

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

So did you like the mockup?

Actually, yes... except for the properties being on the wrong side (maybe on the left in a longer / thinner inspector panel?) and the media stuff being on the right, directly adjacent to the arrange tracks where media goes instead of on the other side of TCP panels... assuming that would be a media panel in that same panel.

That properties window always looked like something from a business app to me, a bit cluttered. I've probably been asking for most of that stuff to be put on the main "work surface" for two years. After being slapped down with "Do it the Reaper way or move on" a couple of dozen times, I just stopped asking.

Anyway, I obviously agree with your impressions of the S1 Browser. I never close it because everything is in that same panel, FX, Instruments, Loops, Presets, Files, whatever.

[EvilDragon]

I mean, this is my personal setup. I find properties to the right good for my workflow. Obviously, there are various people with various workflows. It's good that you can dock it wherever you want to.

[Lawrence]

That's cool, just a personal preference.

Where are the Reaper plugin and instrument presets stored and how do you browse them? I stored one for a third party instrument and (apparently) it's an *.rpl file but a search of my entire hard drive didn't locate it. I assume with a portable install all of the presets would be in the install folder.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Where are the Reaper plugin and instrument presets stored and how do you browse them? I stored on for a third party instrument and (apparently) it's an *.rpl file but a search of my entire hard drive didn't locate it. I assume with a portable install all of the presets would be in the install folder.

I have a "Presets" folder in my portable installation, and in there are .ini files for each plugin that I have presets saved using Reaper's preset mechanism.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

I have a "Presets" folder in my portable installation, and in there are .ini files for each plugin that I have presets saved using Reaper's preset mechanism.

Ok, I found it. It's a "configuration settings" file. I guess you can't just browse individual presets and drag them in...



So how do you load a plug or instrument with a certain preset already on it in one step? In S1 I'm accustomed to loading those things by preset, not by instrument. I mean, if I load a bass preset for instrument A and don't like it, I drop another preset right on top of it and replace the sound or both the sound and plug at the same time.

I thought v4 was going to tackle some of those things like replacing instruments or plugs via drag/drop.

[EvilDragon]

You'd basically save an FX chain with the plugin(s) you want with certain settings.

FX section was untouched in the whole alpha process!

[gofer]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Good idea.



Studio One has it real nice.




Note the buttons on the bottom: "Sounds", "Files", "Pool" - seems like they merged Reaper's FX browser, Media Explorer and Project Bay all to one tab. That's clever.

Exactly the kind of browser I find so painful to use . No joke, I really do. Others like them, I can live with that, but it's just how I feel about them.
I do like the alternating color per line in that browser, though and the idea to have presets in the FX browser as well.

Really, if it's optional, I don't mind you people having a vertical docked browser, why would I? But myself I don't want it. That's all.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by gofer

Exactly the kind of browser I find so painful to use . No joke, I really do. Others like them, I can live with that, but it's just how I feel about them.
I do like the alternating color per line in that browser, though and the idea to have presets in the FX browser as well.

Really, if it's optional, I don't mind you people having a vertical docked browser, why would I? But myself I don't want it. That's all.

Can you at least see the MAJOR advantage of having Media Explorer, FX browser, Project Bay all in one tab? :/ No? Your loss (NHF)

Reaper still has the filter for searching. I don't see that here in S1 image. So that's an upper hand. But a weak upper hand when S1 browser looks so nice.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

You'd basically save an FX chain with the plugin(s) you want with certain settings.

Yeah. Maybe they'll get around to "replace" in the post 4.0 updates. There's a good bit more DnD logic that's not being exploited.

[gofer]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Can you at least see the MAJOR advantage of having Media Explorer, FX browser, Project Bay all in one tab? :/ No? Your loss (NHF)

Reaper still has the filter for searching. I don't see that here in S1 image. So that's an upper hand. But a weak upper hand when S1 browser looks so nice.

I have them all in one (horizontal) docker, ideal for my taste (project bay and media explorer also don't lend themselves to a vertical docker - well, project bay would, but it's too wide already, as it is now, for my taste). As I see it, they are on different tabs in S1 as well, just in the same frame .

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Can you at least see the MAJOR advantage of having Media Explorer, FX browser, Project Bay all in one tab? :/ No? Your loss (NHF)

But we can have several windows in the same docker, which is pretty much the same, no?

Vertical or horizontal, no problem here.

[EvilDragon]

True, but it's executed more elegantly in S1. Same frame - key difference. Hey, I still love Reaper - but I can definitely see when something is more refined than current state of things. S1 is more refined in this case for sure.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

But we can have several windows in the same docker, which is pretty much the same, no?

At a basic root level, yes. Overall, not really. You can actually drag and drop things between tabs there... navigate the tabs while holding a source. For instance, grab a factory preset, hold it over the "Files" tab, and have the "Files" tab open in that same tab, then drop it somewhere there.

But visually, yeah, same thing.

[gofer]

Mmmmhmmm, that's cool, Lawrence. As you already said, there's a lot of stuff in the D&D world which would be cool to have in Reaper.

[Lawrence]

It's handy and it removes some steps from the thought process. Like below, I want to drag the current state of the instrument and make a new preset by dropping it, but my browser is currently showing plugs and I don't want it there, I want it in a custom folder.

You can still navigate there so you don't really have to stop what you're doing or interrupt the thought process...



Lots of opportunities exist for drag and drop.

[EvilDragon]

That is cool. And it's also standard Windows behavior, too. I can't recall being able to do things like that in Reaper...

[airon]

Great colour scheme ED.

The darker backgrounds work a lot better with a darker theme, which the default theme certainly is compared to pure white .

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

That is cool. And it's also standard Windows behavior, too. I can't recall being able to do things like that in Reaper...

This is earlier 1.x stuff mostly and I stopped talking about it for Reaper FR's because people took it the wrong way, like fanboyism. I mean, you can literally shift + select the entire mixer in S1 and save FX chains for every mixer channel in the song with a single drag drop to the browser.

I'm actually surprised nobody else is doing it yet. I thought that would be ripped (drag and drop presets) long ago. I rarely ever save a preset the old way. I just create a folder named after the song and drag the entire mixer there and I have an archive of all the plug chains.



So yeah, drag and drop is the way to go for a lot of this stuff until you run out of stuff to drag and drop.

But any FX you use get saved in the song file anyway and you can always browse directly into any song on disk and just pull them back out and use them... so there always there available anyway, never lost. You don't really have to save any FX chains ever unless you just want them listed in the pop-up menus or your FX chain browser folder for use.

Obviously a collection of FX chains is easier to identify if you put them in a folder by themselves rather than looking for them in a song you did 3 months ago like below...

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Just WOW!

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

Just WOW!

Anyway, the only point in the context of this thread (re: dockers and browsers) is that the browser there is a very, very large part of the application's workflow in multiple ways. It's not just a random window to access things, it's fully bi-directional for audio stems (consolidations), midi file exports, presets, chains, etc, all via drag and drop (both ways) and it's a major part of the workflow.

And again... I'm not divulging anything secret or brand new there. I'm just a little surprised that it's not already happening everywhere else almost 2 years later. I FR'ed this stuff for Reaper long ago. I assumed most people had seen this stuff long ago.

[gofer]

And I agreed long ago about your requests about drag and drop. What's new for me, or never occurred to me, is that it works across tabs of the same docker.

But, in the context of this thread, all the functionality and organization ideas mentioned could be done on any background color and even the ugliest imaginable GUI. Not that I'd prefer it ugly, of course .

[bitrate]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Well, I'd like to have it docked. And probably am not the only one.

I too like the FX browser docked, but for now I let it pop up when needed, because since I use the enter key for my Transport: Play command, doing so repeatedly instantiates new plugins when it's docked (the FX browser won't release focus).

[musicbynumbers]

cool Lawrence

I'd "tap" that browser into Reaper devs at some point!

Reap and then sow!

[bennisixx]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Now, THIS would be a good start... Notice the similarity to colors used in item properties, which is docked on the right side.

[IMG]http://img101.**************/img101/2550/fxbrowsercolors.th.png[/IMG]


After this is done, bring it down to one column and that's about it! Perfect for docking.


Notice that I removed the tab itself. Currently we CANNOT do that when we dock the FX browser. WHY?

I absolutely agree.
I would be another that would dock it by the side.
how about the background match the arrange window and the text match the ruler. that way it will match all themes.

plus this all goes hand in hand with a couple features I want after 4.00 shhhhhh!

[ballstix]

Everything in this topic so far gets my +1

[Shan]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Note the buttons on the bottom: "Sounds", "Files", "Pool" - seems like they merged Reaper's FX browser, Media Explorer and Project Bay all to one tab. That's clever.

+1 on this point!

Shane

[Shan]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Now, THIS would be a good start... Notice the similarity to colors used in item properties, which is docked on the right side.

[IMG]http://img101.**************/img101/2550/fxbrowsercolors.th.png[/IMG]


After this is done, bring it down to one column and that's about it! Perfect for docking.


Notice that I removed the tab itself. Currently we CANNOT do that when we dock the FX browser. WHY?

Another big +1 for the above!!!

(E.D. is breathing fire on this stuff )

Shane

[mirceablue]

++++1 with this v.4 will be complete.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Shan

(E.D. is breathing fire on this stuff )

Yes, I am.

[VVV]

Agreed with all.

The features shown by lawrence in Studio One seems the most important point to me (workflow improvement)

On the subject of the different Browsers style( Fx, media, etc)
It could be a good idea to have a "united result window" that would display the files whatever the kind of browser is used( Fx, media)
( in the FX browser, you keep the column style on the left but you make the big result window on the right a common window for all browsers)
You understand what I mean?

[catfish]

Devs- please talk to us!!!!!!!!

Give us hope, or put us out of our misery!

:-)

[Yoyo]

Again best way to achieve most of this things is to make open source some parts of Reaper (like midi editor, fx/file/browser etc). Just think of possibilities there.

Anyway, I just can't read anymore of this topic, just too much want.

[White Tie]

Originally Posted by catfish

Devs- please talk to us!!!!!!!! Give us hope, or put us out of our misery!

That's not how it works; individual response to FRs is a no-win situation for the developers because its very rarely going to be an outright 'no', no one will be satisfied or any the wiser by a 'maybe, not yet', and a 'yes' would understandably be held with impatience as a cast iron promise. Now multiply that by every quality FR out there... it would be madness.

So, you can at all times assume a 'maybe, not yet'. Which is the same as no answer at all. See? Given we're in beta, that's even more true. Everyone has their favourite FR, and at any time 99.999% of them aren't being worked on. It could be no other way. Imagine if there were a roadmap, which there isn't and there's not going to be : we'd be having all the same discussions, but instead about getting FRs on the roadmap. "We need a clear answer about whether FR X is going to get put on the roadmap" people would say. And perhaps a roadmap for the roadmap would be suggested...

FWIW Reaper has many unthemed elements and I want to theme them all. Including the white backgrounds, tables etc... oh yeah. Mmmmm. But for now, the best we can do is tailor our themes to coexist with the the unthemed elements, since they are a known and unchangeable factor, and be grateful that our ability to do so has increased enormously since V3.

[Yoyo]

Originally Posted by White Tie

Everyone has their favourite FR, and at any time 99.999% of them aren't being worked on. It could be no other way.

As I say above, it could be

[RBowlin]

Originally Posted by White Tie

That's not how it works; individual response to FRs is a no-win situation for the developers because its very rarely going to be an outright 'no', no one will be satisfied or any the wiser by a 'maybe, not yet', and a 'yes' would understandably be held with impatience as a cast iron promise. Now multiply that by every quality FR out there... it would be madness.

So, you can at all times assume a 'maybe, not yet'. Which is the same as no answer at all. See? Given we're in beta, that's even more true. Everyone has their favourite FR, and at any time 99.999% of them aren't being worked on. It could be no other way. Imagine if there were a roadmap, which there isn't and there's not going to be : we'd be having all the same discussions, but instead about getting FRs on the roadmap. "We need a clear answer about whether FR X is going to get put on the roadmap" people would say. And perhaps a roadmap for the roadmap would be suggested...

FWIW Reaper has many unthemed elements and I want to theme them all. Including the white backgrounds, tables etc... oh yeah. Mmmmm. But for now, the best we can do is tailor our themes to coexist with the the unthemed elements, since they are a known and unchangeable factor, and be grateful that our ability to do so has increased enormously since V3.

Thank you for the reasoned response. But allow me to humbly point out that Cockos has responded to many different threads dealing with feature requests. And in many instances, I've found their answers satisfying. I understand your point, and it's well-taken. And Cockos may very well choose not to respond. And if so (most likely for the very reasons you've given) I'd understand.
But let me rather suggest an honest reply from Cockos on this topic, no matter what the response might be, would be welcomed by the Reaper community. Again, as far as I can tell, Cockos has not made any comments on the white window backgrounds. And frankly, there's a lot of noise around it. But the white windows do create themeing issues and given the extraordinary length the Cockos team has gone to provide user flexibility, this one UI issue stand out like a sore thumb. It's just well, odd that these white windows remain. So my hope was (and still is) to get at least a comment, no matter how satisfying or unsatisfying that comment might be, from the devs.

-Rich

[LCipher]

Originally Posted by White Tie

That's not how it works; individual response to FRs is a no-win situation for the developers because its very rarely going to be an outright 'no', no one will be satisfied or any the wiser by a 'maybe, not yet', and a 'yes' would understandably be held with impatience as a cast iron promise. Now multiply that by every quality FR out there... it would be madness.

... Imagine if there were a roadmap, which there isn't and there's not going to be : we'd be having all the same discussions, but instead about getting FRs on the roadmap. "We need a clear answer about whether FR X is going to get put on the roadmap" people would say. And perhaps a roadmap for the roadmap would be suggested...

Nice response. As someone working for a mega-corp who has personal experience creating "an estimate of an estimate" (seriously) - it would get pretty crazy tring to plan and schedule it all out. Even if it is "just an answer" etc.

I've seen too many quick estimates and promises (or hints of promises, etc) turn into nightmares: misinterpreted, carved into stone, etc.

It works like this:
1) Persons A,B,C,D,E,F,G want a "killer" feature, or business wants something "super cool".
2) Planners etc go to engineer, ask just what their "opinion" is and/or quick "guess" on doing task A,B,C,D etc.
3) Guess or quick answer is given, engineer is working on Q,R,S,T,U,V already.
4) Planers get ahold of "answer" which is now put into a plan.
5) Planners ask engineer when will it be done?
6) Engineer gives estimate. Not knowing what ELSE will be added to plan (ie his workload).
7) Plan is now gospel, carved in stone. Engineer now works to meet deadlines.
8) Workload increases, efficiency drops as jumble of "features" is now more important - especially meeting milestones of THE PLAN.
9) Fun quotient drops. Less innovation. Blandness results.... bad craziness ensues.... engineer begins to take crazy trips to the desert.... um, nevermind....









I swear, we have more people scheduling, planing, tracking, and following "THE" process than we have engineers (me) designing and building stuff.

[catfish]

Originally Posted by White Tie

FWIW Reaper has many unthemed elements and I want to theme them all. Including the white backgrounds, tables etc... oh yeah. Mmmmm. But for now, the best we can do is tailor our themes to coexist with the the unthemed elements, since they are a known and unchangeable factor, and be grateful that our ability to do so has increased enormously since V3.

.... and there it is. That's the kind of response I was after at least. Thanks.