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03-07-2010, 05:13 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London - Centre of the Universe
Posts: 203
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Tab to Transient
Hey guys is there a tab to transient option in Reaper just like Pro Tools?
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03-07-2010, 05:18 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 169
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...yes...press TAb on you keyboard ;-)
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03-07-2010, 08:21 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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And shift tab to go back too you can even enable it in prefs for midi as well.
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03-07-2010, 08:30 AM
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#4
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Plus there is a 'tab-to-transient sensitivity' slider in Preferences -> Editing Behavior
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03-07-2010, 12:33 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussUK
Hey guys is there a tab to transient option in Reaper just like Pro Tools?
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If I recall right, in ProTools you used to have to switch on tab to transient as a behaviour. Tab to transient in Reaper isn't an 'option' that needs to be "turned on" though, it's just default behaviour on the arrange screen.
Invoke it by selecting an audio object and hitting tab; if the selection's part of a group I believe it will tab through all transients in the group too.
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03-07-2010, 01:13 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London - Centre of the Universe
Posts: 203
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OK, thanks guys, so how do you select the audio whilst tabbing to transient like in Pro Tools?
I think I need a crash course in keyboard shortcuts.
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03-07-2010, 01:33 PM
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#7
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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You mean from one transient to the next? Remove any time selection that currently exists, tab to the left transient (where you want the selection to start) and then use 'Time selection: extend time selection to next transient in selected item'. When you already have such a selection and want to select between the next two transients, the action 'Time selection: swap left edge...yada yada..' is interesting.
When in the action list, make sure you use the filter box. Eg. with "transient" you are presented all actions with the word transient at a glance. Most of the actions have quite long, explanatory names, so as soon as you get a bit of a grip of the Reaper nomenclature it is very useful.
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08-08-2010, 02:45 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,417
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Tab to transient bug?
Surely this http://screencast.com/t/NzBlNzM3Ym shows that there is a problem with tabbing to transient. I expected also the tab in the second take to move to a position similar to what happens in the top take.
To explain... in the vid I first press TAB with the top take selected, and Reaper nicely tabs to the next transient. This is clearly visible. Doing the same thing on the second take does not tab so nicely, in fact I think it is just plain faulty; from the edit cursor the next transient clearly occurs much earlier than what Reaper tells us.
This is Reaper x86, v.3.66, on W7x64.
Tab to transient sensitivity at 90% (the default).
Anyone confirm?
EDIT: Oops... just now I see this thread is in the OSX forum. Why? None of the questions/replies above are OSX specific, right? So, the thread should really be moved to the general discussion, not? Mods...?
__________________
// MVHMF
I never always did the right thing, but all I did wasn't wrong...
Last edited by Fabian; 08-08-2010 at 02:51 AM.
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08-09-2010, 07:21 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabian
Surely this http://screencast.com/t/NzBlNzM3Ym shows that there is a problem with tabbing to transient. I expected also the tab in the second take to move to a position similar to what happens in the top take.
To explain... in the vid I first press TAB with the top take selected, and Reaper nicely tabs to the next transient. This is clearly visible. Doing the same thing on the second take does not tab so nicely, in fact I think it is just plain faulty; from the edit cursor the next transient clearly occurs much earlier than what Reaper tells us.
This is Reaper x86, v.3.66, on W7x64.
Tab to transient sensitivity at 90% (the default).
Anyone confirm?
EDIT: Oops... just now I see this thread is in the OSX forum. Why? None of the questions/replies above are OSX specific, right? So, the thread should really be moved to the general discussion, not? Mods...?
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thats an odd example though...since 'transient' means the highest point in a waveform, not necessarily the FIRST in a waveform.
perhaps try it again with a real drum hit or something WITH a transient.
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08-09-2010, 08:26 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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But lots of *musical events we want isolated*
don't begin with a transient, like a slurred violin phrase or a vocal performance of a word beginning with an S or W.
In fact, thinking of it in terms of "tab to transient" is inherently limiting in the first place - it's next to useless within a highly compressed, distorted legato guitar phrase. Much more of the functionality that's built into the dynamic split function - gate, for example - could be integrated into the "tab to transient" function. In fact, all the code is already in place there to include a lot more functionality - "tab to next pitch in legato phrase", for example. This would give much more *musical* flexibility in what we can choose to tab to.
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08-09-2010, 12:28 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdolmat
thats an odd example though...since 'transient' means the highest point in a waveform, not necessarily the FIRST in a waveform.
perhaps try it again with a real drum hit or something WITH a transient.
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English is not my mother-tongue, but still... surely "transient" has nothing to do with "highest point", but with "rise". The transient occurs where the derivative changes from (close to) 0 to pointing upward. Also, from Merriam-Webster: "passing especially quickly into and out of existence". So there surely is a transient...
And, even if there is some definition of transient that excludes the given example, Reaper should behave identical in both cases; either tab to the sample where the derivative becomes positive (which it does in almost all cases) or jump to the highest point of the waveform. The example shows that "tab to transient" is not well-behaved (if not indeed buggy).
__________________
// MVHMF
I never always did the right thing, but all I did wasn't wrong...
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08-09-2010, 12:50 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 976
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You can try this set of actions as one macro. It's my custom macro that does what PT's does.
Set start point
Set end point
select all items in track
move edit cursor to play cursor
move cursor to next transient in items
sws : select items under edit cursor on selected track
Try it. It works beautifully
"Set start/end point" are optional depending on your workflow. I prefer time selection cleared whenever I hit TAB.
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08-09-2010, 01:22 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrs
You can try this set of actions as one macro. It's my custom macro that does what PT's does.
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That's a great macro and I'm going to put it in right away - it hits the stated aim, reproducing PT's functionality.
I'm also pretty certain we can easily get to the place of PT users wishing for *our* functionality. For that to happen, the so-called "tab to transient" function should be replaced by a function less obsessed with transients as the only defining characteristic of the transition between audio events.
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08-13-2010, 01:18 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryg
That's a great macro and I'm going to put it in right away - it hits the stated aim, reproducing PT's functionality.
I'm also pretty certain we can easily get to the place of PT users wishing for *our* functionality. For that to happen, the so-called "tab to transient" function should be replaced by a function less obsessed with transients as the only defining characteristic of the transition between audio events.
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Sorry mate, I don't quite catch what you're driving at. You might want to elaborate?
I've suggested this before, I'll suggest it again, it'll be very very VERY useful if we had an action such as "Adjust tab-to-transient sensitivity via mousewheel" and we could set it to "modifier + mousewheel" to change the threshold without digging into preference and using the slider. I didn't get much backing on that one, made me really bummed.
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08-13-2010, 04:26 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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I agree with KerryG that Reaper's transient detection needs improving. I don't know how the algorithm works at the moment, but from what I've read one fairly reliable method is to perform an FFT analysis, and then any steep changes in the spectral slope indicate a "transient". This method is simple, and has downsides though. There is an interesting research paper here which seems to suggest a more accurate method, but it explains an issue in situations where there is a smooth change in frequency, which would not be detected as a transient/onset.
It seems to me that if Cockos could redesign their transient detection with the concepts of that paper in mind, and then supplement the algorithm with pitch detection (that already exists in Reaper), it would greatly improve how Reaper detects percussive transients, as well as other event onsets and transitions in audio signals.
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08-13-2010, 10:32 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrs
Sorry mate, I don't quite catch what you're driving at. You might want to elaborate?
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Hi Lawrs - editors have always wanted a way to step through musical events in a track, and it was very exciting when ProTools gave us tab-to-transient. People assumed that's what we'd been given - the ability to tab through discrete musical events in an audio region.
In fact it wasn't. It was a fraction of that - the ability to step through *musical events whose beginnings were defined by transients*.
Try that on a legato violin part or a compressed guitar playing, say, legato 8th notes. There are eight notes in the bar, but tab-to-transient sees them as one single event a wholenote long. Our ears instantly tell us this is false.
Really, we were never looking for tab-to-transient at all. That's just what Digi gave people as an IOU. Melodyne nailed it far better - pitch change between events was just as important a criteria in determining what constituted a "new event" as detected transients.
I think we should roll "tab to transient" into a new function, "tab through musical events" and give it its own control panel modeled after the control panel for "dynamic split". You set *how you want to define that event* - and add "by pitch change". Pre-tailored presets could optimize it for the type of material you're working on - a male and female vocal preset focused on detection via pitch, a drums preset focused on transients, a bass preset that looks at both. You could reconfigure your "tab" function to step through music that's NOT drums - like compressed guitars or legato violin phrases - with ease - hit by hit, pitch by pitch.
All the code is there in Reaper already - in fact, if you open the "dynamic split" options you'll see it already contains far more sophisticated options for determining transitions between musical events than have been included in the "tab to transient" function, and the pitch detection functionality from ReaPitch could probably be added in easily enough as a new section.
Add them all together and you have something that makes far more musical sense than "tab to transient" - a tab function that would be virtually unique to Reaper and put it at the front of the pack for this kind of editing (and begin the process of minimizing the need for Melodyne at all).
Last edited by kerryg; 08-13-2010 at 01:47 PM.
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08-13-2010, 02:08 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryg
... and the pitch detection functionality from ReaPitch could probably be added in easily enough as a new section.
Add them all together and you have something that makes far more musical sense than "tab to transient" - a tab function that would be virtually unique to Reaper and put it at the front of the pack for this kind of editing (and begin the process of minimizing the need for Melodyne at all).
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This is a brilliant idea. Thanks for elaborating. You need to get the devs to hear this out man!
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08-13-2010, 03:39 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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lol did you read my post?
who wants to make the FR?
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08-13-2010, 04:59 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
lol did you read my post?
who wants to make the FR?
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Oh SNAP! I glanced at it in a hurry, saw you asking for better algorithms, went on to answer the question and didn't even realize... OK, great minds definitely think alike here
OK, I'll try to get the FR up.
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08-18-2010, 02:20 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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Bump, you gonna make the FR Kerryg? I don't mind doing it btw
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08-18-2010, 07:25 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Hey Tim -
If you don't mind taking the lead that's great - bit of a plan change over here, I've wound up swamped for a day or two,
Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd
Bump, you gonna make the FR Kerryg? I don't mind doing it btw
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08-18-2010, 04:25 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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This would be a real cool FR. It'd be nice to have an options window and maybe choose between algorithms if you can't have one that's perfect (I wouldn't know). It may also be nice to include this from another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Green
-Add Action to move cursor to either next transient OR next item depending on which is closer. It would eliminate the need for an additional keymap.
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There could just be a check box for whether to skip to other items.
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08-18-2010, 04:29 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
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noted
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12-15-2010, 01:27 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
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how
highlight the area you want to work in of that track, then tab to the hits
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01-06-2011, 10:34 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon
This would be a real cool FR. It'd be nice to have an options window and maybe choose between algorithms if you can't have one that's perfect (I wouldn't know). It may also be nice to include this from another thread: There could just be a check box for whether to skip to other items.
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This does exactly what Mr Green is referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrs
You can try this set of actions as one macro. It's my custom macro that does what PT's does.
Set start point
Set end point
select all items in track
move edit cursor to play cursor
move cursor to next transient in items
sws : select items under edit cursor on selected track
Try it. It works beautifully
"Set start/end point" are optional depending on your workflow. I prefer time selection cleared whenever I hit TAB.
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01-06-2011, 10:35 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrs
This does exactly what Mr Green is referring to.
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Thanks, I'll try it out.
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01-26-2015, 06:19 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2
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Using transients as warp points
Can't we use the transients as warp points, like in Pro Tools, so then we can put precise notes under their dead-on positions in the grid, Elastic Audio-wise?
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01-26-2015, 07:14 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,207
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Yes, you just create a stretch marker at the transient and drag it to the grid.
RTFM
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02-01-2021, 12:14 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 137
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Hey folks! I know this is 7 years later but I found a fix for this and made a custom action for it:
https://youtu.be/UNmnaRw4e0A
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