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Old 10-27-2016, 10:34 AM   #1
Geoff Waddington
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Default The control surface integration project (CSI) -- includes OSC

Notes wiki -- thanks @MalcolmG - https://github.com/malcolmgroves/reaper_csi/wiki
Video -- thanks @poetnprophet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5IC-fuI0E8


Edit: You can now donate, just go to geoffwaddington.ca.

Following a bit of discussion in the Feature Request subforum (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=179220), I have decided to take on the task of improving support in this area.

This is an open call for feature requests, overall philosophies, dream/cadillac solutions, etc.

Just trying to get a feel for what we should attempt to build here.

Nothing is off the table, it should be MUCH easier than the EuCon support project, because it is comparatively unconstrained.

For example: don't even know if this is possible yet, but imagine being able to control the faders from an MCU, the transport from an Artist Transport, and the VST compressors, EQ's, reverbs, etc. from an iPad (perhaps using OSC).

Code:
 [edit Aug 28 2019] After close to 3 years we can say we have taken the first steps :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqW...ature=youtu.be
That's the kind of open free thinking I'd like to promote here.

From that we can derive a "doable" project.

Have at 'er folks, this only works if you participate.
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Old 10-27-2016, 11:09 AM   #2
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I will contribute more later, but here's what I'd be looking for:
1) Extender support for plugin control please (more than 9 faders)
2) Double click rewind brings transport to 0:00:00, and double click fast forward brings the transport to the end of the project ("Did you want to hear that back from the top?)
3) Easy plug-in control mapping
4) Support for fader/pan 'flip' in plug-in control mode
5) Ability to assign faders to the control surface and have them identified by colour in reaper. E.g. maybe I want Bass, Kick, Snr, Rest of Kit, GTRs, LdVox, BGV, FX1, FX2, and not a bunch of sub folder tracks.

Cheers

Kris
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
For example: don't even know if this is possible yet, but imagine being able to control the faders from an MCU, the transport from an Artist Transport, and the VST compressors, EQ's, reverbs, etc. from an iPad (perhaps using OSC).
I think this would work. At one point in time I tested using Klinke's csurf dll (the one that supported extenders, I forget the version no.) on my hardware MCU, and on Neyrink V-control at the same time. It worked. I can't image why throwing OSC into the mix wouldn't work too.

Cheers

Kris
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:06 PM   #4
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some ideas in no particular order ...

Eucon's "wheel actions" which you can map to the the jog shuttle wheel were very interesting: I would have loved being able to use the wheel to jog, zoom, trim, nudge, move envelope points up and down, select next item, track, point etc.

I would love to be able to lock tracks to faders, and to have faders write to selected envelope on their track... being able to cycle through envelopes with the wheel would make that very powerful.

It would be very amazing to have compressor gain reduction meters (ok that's too much I'm sure)...

being able to open the first, next plug per track and have the params spill
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:11 PM   #5
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and also a giant prospective thank you !
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Old 10-27-2016, 08:20 PM   #6
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I have gotten really attached to klinke's folder diving with select.
Please include that.
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Old 10-28-2016, 06:27 AM   #7
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I'm copying my post from the other thread here so it's all in one place.

- automateable sends
https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...tion-for-sends

- a 'follow plugin' mode
https://bitbucket.org/Klinkenstecker...ollows-touched

- a 'native' (built in the .dll) MCU display emu (for those using an MCU emu without built in display, like me with the BCR2000)
Not a high priority as the Mountain utilities BC manager contains an MCU display emu that's working nicely (for me anyways). A built in display emu would eliminate the necessity for virtual MIDI connections though.

- Nice might also be if the tracks currently controlled by the MCU could automatically change to some custom color.

- Some reporting performance decrease with higher track counts using Klinke's .dll
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=39

(haven't experienced personally though, as my track count usually isn't that high)

Last edited by nofish; 10-28-2016 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:08 AM   #8
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Do we need participation of a hardware developer and Cockos?
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:56 AM   #9
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We'll see G-Sun.

Look at the work for the LBX Strip creator here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=182233

This might be exactly what we need. He could probably help out with a decent framework. Writing THAT stuff in Lua could be just the ticket to take advantage of the enormous talent in this forum.

Just take a look at the last post on page 36(!!). Stuff people are coming up with.

With simple shapes or whatever people want to use,the visualization and configuration could be close to being solved on a technical level already.
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Old 11-26-2016, 09:20 AM   #10
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Btw, I meant the LBX strip project adapted for this projects needs would be for configuration only.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:35 PM   #11
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Made the thread title more reasonable now that the election is over.
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Old 12-03-2016, 04:14 PM   #12
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How do want to start on this ?

Tackle the MCU as the big test case might just be a good place to start. Many folks have such devices.

The way Klinkes csurf gave us all the extra layers could be the starting point.

If midi gear is adressed as control-enabled midi devices, the MCU would have to live like this too. On the other hand that gives you more flexibility in putting your personal control setup together.

Several type of presets could come in to play.
Device resource presets that let users skip over the aquisition of midi-learn-collected resources.
The composition of these resources in to a control setup is another and it likely encompass the device presets.

Layers such as one controls a currently selected plugin could be filled with device presets, whose control resources get auto-assigned according to a list of preferred parameters for each plugin.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:44 AM   #13
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Default mcu user .... 25 years of logic and now focussed on reaper

HI, I've been using the universal control for 10 years or so in logic. Delighted to dump that program after 25 years (since v4!) only possible because of the the way reaper people work as well as reaper itself. 2 weeks in, bought, and now learning the amount of possibilities. Just wanting to say Geoff, hats off for this. Reaper blatantly has the greater potential for customisation of commands for the universal. I've gone a long way with it already, setting up one click plugs and all the other stuff I wished to do consistently in logic but couldn't.
One feature I really get confused about "HOW" to do... bring up a plugin or 3, and have the foremost plugin window signify assigned and pre programmable control from all faders/knobs on the universal, then go back to the general track controls once the plugin windows are shut, or if only the foremost window is shut, the controller sets up to the next plugin in in the foreground till all/any are closed. That would be a massive workflow one for me.
Delighted to be sent to test/report any beta for the mcu..
Thanks again for the undertaking.... os x tends to take a back seat, but would be so useful and work cutting if you were able to do this. I will help in any way, thanks
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:15 AM   #14
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OK, here's a quick and dirty proof of concept on how i think we can integrate an iPad into this project.

The basic idea is that you launch an iPad app, Reaper senses it, and begins communication.

Then, whenever you focus on a VST, the iPad automatically displays a multitouch version that you can interact with:

https://youtu.be/1TtQmnD-x6U
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:12 AM   #15
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Ya hadda use an iPad, dincha (grin)

In all seriousness, I think you have our attention now, Geoff.
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:57 PM   #16
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No way!!!!!!! Well it seems I will buy myself a first apple device
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:39 PM   #17
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wwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhooooooooaaaaaahhhhhhhh !!
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Old 01-21-2017, 05:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OK, here's a quick and dirty proof of concept on how i think we can integrate an iPad into this project.

The basic idea is that you launch an iPad app, Reaper senses it, and begins communication.

Then, whenever you focus on a VST, the iPad automatically displays a multitouch version that you can interact with:

https://youtu.be/1TtQmnD-x6U
That's special. Very interesting.
How do you create the equivalent on the iPad ?
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
That's special. Very interesting.
How do you create the equivalent on the iPad ?
Of course that demo was not functional, but here's the concept:

Launch app on iPad.

This starts 2 way OSC communication.

Whenever a plugin receives focus, Reaper tells the iPad app a new plugin needs representation on the iPad.

iPad requests graphics/multitouch elements for the plugin, if it doesn't have them.

Reaper sends elements over via OSC, along with data for current settings, etc.

iPad displays graphics and adds appropriate multitouch controls set to current settings.

User interacts with iPad and new settings get sent to Reaper.

The whole idea is zero-config networking and zero app config on the iPad, it just works when you launch the iPad app.
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Old 01-21-2017, 02:21 PM   #20
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What do you need for the plugin to work ? Any preparation necessary ?
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Following a bit of discussion in the Feature Request subforum (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=179220), I have decided to take on the task of improving support in this area.

This is an open call for feature requests, overall philosophies, dream/cadillac solutions, etc.

Just trying to get a feel for what we should attempt to build here.
Roughly in order of importance to me:

MIDI parameter feedback. First, allow an output port to receive control messages, then if an action is mapped to a MIDI CC, when that action is taken, output the new value to all ports configured for control.

Allow mapping of actions to an MMC Sysex code. Would allow the transport functions to be remapped to different variations of the action (like play/pause instead of just play, or punch in/out instead of just starting recording), without having to remap the transport keys to CCs (not always possible).

"Shuttle" MIDI CC mapping behavior. Use a rotary, fader or the pitch wheel on a MIDI device as a shuttle wheel, where the more you move the controller from center, the faster/more often the action is performed. Bonus points for configuration options for sensitivity of the shuttling and amount of "dead zone" near 64.

MIDI Learn as a context menu option. Would allow right-clicking a control, choosing the "MIDI Learn..." option, confirming the action being learned from a shortlist of possible (e.g. "Set pan for selected track" vs "Set pan for track X"), then moving the desired controller. Good for tweaking controls after a more focused mapping session with the actions list.

That's all I have for now. Thanks for reading.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:09 AM   #22
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Default HELP!

Ive got an M-Audio Projectmix
Is there anyway I can get the (flying) faders and pan to work with Reaper?

Im not much of a computer person, more a musician that just wants to record and mix (hence loving Reaper!)

Any help of the 'click here' variety would be VERY appreciated!

Groover
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakedcityuk View Post
Ive got an M-Audio Projectmix
Is there anyway I can get the (flying) faders and pan to work with Reaper?

Im not much of a computer person, more a musician that just wants to record and mix (hence loving Reaper!)

Any help of the 'click here' variety would be VERY appreciated!

Groover
With the unit off, hold down the Aux 2 button.

While still holding down Aux 2, power the unit up.

You should see it come up on Cubase mode, aka Mackie Control.

Now, you can install the CSI software and select MCU for the protocol.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:45 PM   #24
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is the control surface integration thread going to include Linux?
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:39 AM   #25
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is the control surface integration thread going to include Linux?
Not planned right now, you can just use the Windows version under WINE.
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Old 09-28-2018, 05:48 PM   #26
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whip that horse
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:29 AM   #27
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Default What mean -- includes OSC in the title

Can someone explain me the concept a little of OSC with CSI together and maybe how they can work together please.
tks
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:58 AM   #28
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Can someone explain me the concept a little of OSC with CSI together and maybe how they can work together please.
tks
Seby
Sure, it's very simple.


For example, you now have:

Play PressFB 90 5e 7f 90 5e 00

in MCU.rst


You could have:

Play PressFB t/play

in SomeOSCDevice.ost


Pressing play on either device (Midi or OSC), or clicking the mouse on the Play Button, starts Reaper playing.



There will also be OSCSurface entries in the CSI.ini file, much like the MidiSurface entries there now, to indicate things like I/O config, channel count, etc.

In other words only CSI.ini/.ost files are involved, all of the definitions in .rst/.axt/.fxt remain the same, at least that's the plan
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:35 AM   #29
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Quote:
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....all of the definitions in .rst/.axt/.fxt remain the same, at least that's the plan
That's a good plan I've got >200 .fxt files now
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:35 AM   #30
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That's a good plan I've got >200 .fxt files now
Sorry to ask you that, but what is fxt? And what you mean you have more than 200?
Plugins?
No sure to understand.
tks
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:51 AM   #31
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Sorry to ask you that, but what is fxt? And what you mean you have more than 200?
Plugins?
No sure to understand.
tks
Seby
No problem, questions are good

An .fxt file maps plugin parameters to control surface widgets (knobs, buttons,displays etc)
So each plugin needs one (or more- mono, stereo etc) .fxt file.

If you look in the Console One folder in the fxt folder, you can see some examples of plugins mapped to a Console One surface.

Since Geoff introduced the MapFocussedFX command, I’ve been busy mapping plugins to my C4 surface
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Notes wiki -- thanks @MalcolmG - https://github.com/malcolmgroves/reaper_csi/wiki

Edit: You can now donate, just go to geoffwaddington.ca.

Following a bit of discussion in the Feature Request subforum (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=179220), I have decided to take on the task of improving support in this area.

This is an open call for feature requests, overall philosophies, dream/cadillac solutions, etc.

Just trying to get a feel for what we should attempt to build here.

Nothing is off the table, it should be MUCH easier than the EuCon support project, because it is comparatively unconstrained.

For example: don't even know if this is possible yet, but imagine being able to control the faders from an MCU, the transport from an Artist Transport, and the VST compressors, EQ's, reverbs, etc. from an iPad (perhaps using OSC).

That's the kind of open free thinking I'd like to promote here.

From that we can derive a "doable" project.

Have at 'er folks, this only works if you participate.
Watching this the first time, how finished is this here, or are many things still flexible, especially regarding file formats, structures for example? Everything should be as easy as possible, removing all what is not relevant or elegant. Or putting it elsewhere. I liked the fact the system allows or will allow multiple devices and combined to a bigger one, not disturbing each other, sounds just perfect. This is exactly how the situation is, usually, starting there is perfect, not assuming one has a single magic device, no matter from which company, mostly they are crap anyway.

Looked a bit more. There seems to be no connection to any Reaper project template or track template? Is this normal or wanted? Why not allowing or connecting this whole control surface story to the template options in Reaper? This means your set of required files could be:
-mst
-axt
-fxt
-track template(s)
-project template(s)

FXT says a series of files how the surface elements defined in the mst will map to controls in your vst plugins? Which plugins? Where are they defined? No track template, no project template, but any vst plugins? Ohh, this sounds like there could be millions of bugs because of this openness. Instead it could be limited to only those mentioned in track and project templates. And with those, it should always work correctly! Much easier to test and guaranteeing 100% functionality.

Where can I define if a surface element should control selected tracks only or selected fx only or be globally, meaning independent of track or fx selection, doing always same? Can my surface have 16 variants? One variant for each midi channel? For example each midi channel could be a page then for example or something else.

I would also want the surface being able to control or take over immediately all controls on tcp. If you defined it in your surface. You could say something like: Take over first 16 controls on tcp with those 16 hardware encoders. Or only 8 if you want less. Is this possible?

Which is the fastest or best way of generating .mst files for your given device? No tools which make life easier? Like a learning system or taking over something from Reaper what you learned already, could be a track template for example?

Last edited by TonE; 03-17-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:52 PM   #33
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Watching this the first time, how finished is this here, or are many things still flexible, especially regarding file formats, structures for example?
It's definitely not finished. That doesn't mean it's not already super useful, but my impression is that it's been in an exploratory stage, narrowing in on the right solutions.

It's undergoing some major file format changes right now. If you don't like the idea of having to redo some of your config once those changes are released, you might want to watch from the sidelines a little longer. However, you can already build some really powerful custom controller mappings, so if you're busting to get tinkering, I say go for it. I found I ended up redoing most of my first few attempts anyway, as I learnt more about what was possible.
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:01 PM   #34
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Logged after several years just to say thanks to Geoff and all people involved in this crazy little "framework".
You just make me will to buy a control surface.
I recently tested Lemur and Touch OSC and went nuts. Being able to touch is another world... also the beauty of a display with all the infos let you forget you don't have real faders.
But with CSI you can have the best of both worlds, so really thanks again for developing this.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:00 AM   #35
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For example: don't even know if this is possible yet, but imagine being able to control the faders from an MCU, the transport from an Artist Transport, and the VST compressors, EQ's, reverbs, etc. from an iPad (perhaps using OSC).
That quote is from the very first post of this thread -- Oct 27 2016.

After close to 3 years we can say we have taken the first steps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqW...ature=youtu.be
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Reaper forum thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183143
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:26 AM   #36
Mr. Green
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
That quote is from the very first post of this thread -- Oct 27 2016.

After close to 3 years we can say we have taken the first steps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byqW...ature=youtu.be
That really is amazing!
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:41 AM   #37
Mr. Green
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So I'm really close to having a really solid working setup here (not going to worry about that hidden track bug atm - working around).

My next (and maybe final) step on the Console1 controller is this:

I am attempting to create a different zone for some un-assigned parameters when an FX window is in focus. Those parameters are PageUp, PageDown, and PhaseInv(Bypass) (and maybe a few others once I get these working).

So with no FX windows in focus, when using PageUp/Down would select neighboring tracks and PhaseInv would reverse Phase (all of which are already working) - but when an FX Chain is in focus, the Page buttons would switch to selecting next/previous FX in the chain, and PhaseInv would bypass the selected FX (none yet working).

I feel like I'm close, but I definitely need help here...

Code:
Zone Home
//	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
//	OnFXFocus MapFocusedTrackFXToWidgets
//	OnFXFocus MapSelectedTrackFXToWidgets
	OnFXFocus GoZone FocusedFX
	DisplayOn Reaper _S&M_TOGLFXCHAIN
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	PageDown Reaper 40286
	PageUp Reaper 40285
	InputMeterLeft TrackOutputMeter 0
	InputMeterRight TrackOutputMeter 1
	OutputMeterLeft TrackOutputMeter 0
	OutputMeterRight TrackOutputMeter 1
	PhaseInv Reaper 40282
	Volume TrackVolume
	Pan TrackPan
	Mute TrackMute
	Solo TrackSolo
ZoneEnd

Zone FocusedFX
	FocusedFXTrackNavigator
	PageDown Reaper _S&M_SELFXPREV
	PageUp Reaper _S&M_SELFXNEXT
	PhaseInv _S&M_FXBYPSEL
ZoneEnd
btw - with the new surface options in the update, I am finding I no longer need the map-to commands in the zon file, which is very cool! :-)
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:56 AM   #38
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Could try putting the page up and down in the fx.zon file and see

I think it's not working because you don't GoZone to the focus zone, it'seems just something you'very put in.

I'm honestly not sure the OnFxFocus GoZone works as anew instruction.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Could try putting the page up and down in the fx.zon file and see

I think it's not working because you don't GoZone to the focus zone, it'seems just something you'very put in.

I'm honestly not sure the OnFxFocus GoZone works as anew instruction.
I tried that initially, but the problem I quickly ran into was is that un-mapped fx (I couldn't possibly map all of them) get stuck (no longer able to page) when brought into focus.
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Old 10-06-2019, 08:10 PM   #40
tdc
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Hi Folks, new CSI user who is looking to move from the Avid walled garden to Reaper. Key to my workflow a function control surface, and so I am of course drawn to Geoff's CSI. At present I have an Avid S3 and Transport, and am trying to build a Reaper based solution. I suspect that the S3 will be sold and replaced by a 16-24 fader bank as it is not well supported via HUI / MCU. (the top 16 encoders are not addressable it seems)

I have created some surfaces using Lemur and its worked as expected, apart from data being dropped somewhere in Reaper/CSI. I have created a simple Patch that has a Fader and a button, and is successfully switching focus on selecting a new track. My Test Reaper session has only three tracks and one audio file so CPU is 1-2%. When I am recording automation I was noticing that the response was a little laggy at times and seemed to drop data.

To rule out Lemur and Wifi, I built a MaxMSP Patch that generates a sinusoidal ramp and spits this out at 14bit. CSI is happily receiving this via internal MIDI routing (so no Wifi) but the results are the same as the Lemur-Wifi input. Inconsistent data being received and recorded as you can see in the screenshot. I tried changing the 15hz rate up and down and this didnt remedy the inconsistency.



Any thoughts? Is this a byproduct of the various scripts that CSI needs or something else do you think? I should note that this machine is my performance machine and is usually running Ableton and MaxMSP with oodles of internal MIDI, and until Reaper/CSI, I have not seen this dropping data issue before.

Thanks for your thoughts, tdc.

MacOS 10.14.3 / MBP / Reaper 5.983 / CSI latest.
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