Old 09-02-2012, 01:18 PM   #1
SeanC
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Default Midi volume and multiple sends

Trying to work out how to do this.
I have an instrument on one track - drum on sampler (sfz)
I send MIDI to this track from 2 separate tracks. Say on track has the cymbals and the second the toms (to keep the midi arrangements apart).
I want to independently alter the volume on each MIDI send (not velocity).
I have a folder with the instrument and then sends from two child tracks. MIDI is linked to fader on the child tracks.
If I use the child track main faders ALL midi vols change for any sent to the folder instrument, but if I set a vol envelope on each midi track all is OK and midi vols get sent independantly and I can alter the mix.
What is confusing me is why the linked to track fader midi vol is not the same as the envelope vol? (not working independently)
Attached image will give you the gist of what I'm trying to do.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg midi vols.jpg (39.3 KB, 149 views)
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:25 PM   #2
Nip
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If automation is trim+read style, then the envelope does not change when changing fader. Movement of fader trims the envelope of the same amount everywhere.

So if fader moves after envelope is made it might not correspond.

Very clever actually compared to absolute envelope(Read) where you have to change the entire envelope if needing to trim anything all over.

It's reasy to change automation style if you need. Rightclick automation symbol on track panel.

And to be able to have separate volume handling(CC07), I think instrument need to receive on different midi channels(or two different instances of sfz). If trying to do it on the same channel on the same instance will not be the result as you expect.

But don't forget that volume is the sum of volume(CC07)+expression(CC11)+velocity(not arithmetic sum but an algorithm with those parameters).

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Old 09-03-2012, 01:46 PM   #3
SeanC
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Hmmm... If I set Vol(pre-FX) to Visible and Active and Write mode, then the main fader always writes the current position to the envelope, effectively becomes a separate vol. However, only works if Vol(Pre-FX) is visible, which is annoying as it takes up track space.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:58 PM   #4
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OK - so I tried something else. I tried to put a volume envelope on the midi item itself - and it had no effect whatsoever. I understand vol is an algorithm but what goes on here. Does this mean vol envelopes on items are only for audio (wav) ?
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:31 PM   #5
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Have you thought about sticking a volume auto after the output of the VSTi you are triggering with the MIDI? You might have to split your tracks differently but this is the most obvious way to do it in my opinion.

Several people have posted stuff like this which shows a lack of understanding of how MIDI actually works.

You CAN vary the volume or the velocity for individual notes, but you cant vary the volume once the note has sounded UNLESS you use a volume controller after the VSTi.

Now some clever dick is going to prove me wrong of course! (grin)
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #6
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I gave up trying to do that with sfz.

I just load as many instances as I need.
If I want control of each part of a drum kit I load 4 or more instances of sfz each with the same drum kit ( or different kits if you prefer the sound of some pieces in other kits) and put the appropriate midi on each track.

Then, you just adjust the track faders to mix the kit.
You also get the benefit of being able to EQ each track as you please.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:41 PM   #7
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Thanks PAPT. Yeah - that's kind of what I may end up doing - I think the EQ bonus kind of seals it. Means a lot more memory (the lovely G&S CW kit is 150Mb) but probably worth is. Maybe I may spend the time splitting my fave SFZ kits into BD, SD, Cymbals and Toms.
If only SFZ+ actually loaded SFZ files I could use Single File mode and get 8 outputs - curse you RGC...!
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:52 PM   #8
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I rarely use sfz anymore, but I don't thing that the extra instances use up the full amount of ram. I forget exactly.

It's more than just EQ.
I usually use different compression and reverb on different parts of a kit as well.
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