Old 06-24-2019, 01:18 PM   #1
MaXyM
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Default time signature change with items matching

Let's say I have recorded MIDI notes of a 6/8 signature song, but reaper project is set to 4/4. So everything plays well, notes are aligned to triplets. Just notes are aligned to 1/16 triplets instead of 1/8 straights. And of course even bars not always match the song structure.

How to convert such project to a proper 6/8, not loosing items/notes aliment. I assume bpm of the song will change from 130 to 195 I believe.

with regards
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Old 06-28-2019, 06:23 AM   #2
MaXyM
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OK... Looks like the task is not common enought.
After doing some more or less random attempts I ended with:
* project set to 100 BPM
* items forced to be 133 BPM and 6/8 time signature.

But I failed to make items "not forced" to anything, matchting project settings instead.
Finally I re-recorded midi items, using original items as source, recording to new tracks. Now I have a 6/8 song played with 100BPM. In fact, it should be 200BPM (see below), but I needed to divide measure by 2, to support dependency between BPM and a VST.

BTW how does it work, that item can be fixed to some tempo/time signature while its playback is controlled and affected by project settings? Is there a description of relationship between those settings? What happens if recalculation of tempo results in some divider reminder?


Anyway... trying to achieve the goal I hit a wall of lack in education probably. What surprised me most is that BPM of 6/8 and 4/4 songs are different even if time of playing a single measure (bar) seems to be the same.

Let's take Oxygene pt. 4 for example. This is 6/8 song with 189 BPM. But if you measure time of single measures (bars), it's like 126 BPM.
I even saw a discussion on gearslutz about it but seemed there was no common agreement

Could anybody help me to understand this subject?

Last edited by MaXyM; 06-28-2019 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:48 AM   #3
hopi
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ummm look again at the tempo markers, where you are setting the signature and see you also can set the bpm there

so don't expect changing just the signature to automatically change the bpm... you have to set that as well
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:30 AM   #4
MaXyM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
ummm look again at the tempo markers, where you are setting the signature and see you also can set the bpm there

so don't expect changing just the signature to automatically change the bpm... you have to set that as well
I wasn't make use of tempo markers. I was playing with project-wise settings and items settings.
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:18 PM   #5
juliansader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
Let's say I have recorded MIDI notes of a 6/8 signature song, but reaper project is set to 4/4. So everything plays well, notes are aligned to triplets. Just notes are aligned to 1/16 triplets instead of 1/8 straights. And of course even bars not always match the song structure.

How to convert such project to a proper 6/8, not loosing items/notes aliment. I assume bpm of the song will change from 130 to 195 I believe.

with regards
Set all items' timebase to time, so that they don't stretch while you are changing tempos and timesigs, and then do standard tempo mapping.

Note 1: REAPER's "beats" are always quarter notes, no matter what the timesig is.

Note 2: The action "Create measure from time selection (new time signature)" is useful for changing timesigs without changing measure length.

Note 3: MIDI items' timebase works somewhat differently than audio items'. When timebases were first introduced, the devs reasoned that for the vast majority of cases, users would prefer MIDI to follow the tempo map and remain on the grid. Therefore:

* MIDI items do not follow the project default timebase. Instead they are automatically set to Beats, unless changed at item level. (To set their timebase, you must select the items, then right-click -> Item properties -> Set timebase to time; or run the action "Item properties: Set item timebase to time".)

* Even when a MIDI item's timebase is set to Time, it only affects the item start and item length. The MIDI notes and CCs *inside* the item will still follow the tempo map. To lock the MIDI notes and CCs to their time positions, the item Properties must be set to "Ignore project tempo". The easiest way to do so is to use the SWS actions "Enable "Ignore project tempo" for selected MIDI items and preserve time position of events (use tempo at item's start)".
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:36 PM   #6
MaXyM
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Thank you very much for detailed answer. It shows how tricky such process might be.

Also your explanation about BPM seems to match my thoughts about it. It explains why 6/12 song has more BPM than 4/4 song, when bars of both songs take the same amount of time.

thank you very much.
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