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Old 03-19-2016, 08:00 PM   #1
dmoss74
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Default i really need help with kontakt 5 with articulations/key switches

hi,

sorry for being a dunce, but i am really trying to understand how to best do some writing/recording with kontakt, in reaper (not that reaper itself is the problem, it's a general kontakt thing).

okay, so what i want to do is record various instruments (either played, or step written), but apply certain articulations at certain points. i have horn instruments, string instruments, etc, but i keep banging my head on the table, because i just don't think i'm getting the whole "kontakt" thing.

what i gather is (and this could be totally wrong) my best bet would be to start a new instrument bank in kontakt. from there, i load in any particular instrument, and all of its affiliated articulations, from which i can switch them up in reaper, depending on how i need them at any point.

so from there, when i need to use any articulation/change, i would somehow have to let reaper know that this will be going on. this is what i need to learn. is there some gigantic tutorial for how to do things like this? the manual for kontakt doesn't even begin to explain this. or if it does, i'm not getting it.

thanks for any help, and please excuse the ignorance. i'm more of a "player", and never really learned the midi program change thing.
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:36 AM   #2
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... it all depends ...

In the Kontakt instruments I have here, key-switching to select a different articulation is done by sending a particular MIDI note to Kontakt. Just add them to your MIDI clip (or play them from your MIDI keyboard).

Different library developers use different keys for articulations (check their User Guides). So the precise method will differ too.

Here is a simple example, using a Factory Library instrument:

>>> https://i.imgur.com/HoNigKl.png

-- the articulation keys are indicated in red / green on the Kontakt keyboard
-- and shown in the GUI (they can be selected there too)
-- the playable keys are blue

And a MIDI clip (I typed in the articulation names as Note Names):



-- the first few notes are played with the Sustain articulation
-- the others are Pizzicato.

Which particular libraries are you using?
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:35 AM   #3
dmoss74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
... it all depends ...

In the Kontakt instruments I have here, key-switching to select a different articulation is done by sending a particular MIDI note to Kontakt. Just add them to your MIDI clip (or play them from your MIDI keyboard).

Different library developers use different keys for articulations (check their User Guides). So the precise method will differ too.

Here is a simple example, using a Factory Library instrument:

>>> https://i.imgur.com/HoNigKl.png

-- the articulation keys are indicated in red / green on the Kontakt keyboard
-- and shown in the GUI (they can be selected there too)
-- the playable keys are blue

And a MIDI clip (I typed in the articulation names as Note Names):



-- the first few notes are played with the Sustain articulation
-- the others are Pizzicato.

Which particular libraries are you using?
that's the way i have been doing it, but it seems that way is very tedious. maybe it's the only real way. i know you can set a lot of instruments (or articulations) in kontakt, as a multi. even in doing that, i suppose that it more or less would be the same thing.

i have session horns and kirk hunter strings.

thanks
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:46 AM   #4
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Some libraries are set up so that you can use the mod wheel to switch articulations. That could make it a bit easier to play a piece of music in fewer passes, but that is a library-specific feature and applies to a single instrument. It may be possible to have a plugin on the input of the channel that could use the mod wheel to switch channels live, but that's just speculation.
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:52 AM   #5
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Also, since most libraries use MIDI notes as their keyswitch trigger you could have a separate MIDI controller(hardware or OSC) or a second zone on an existing controller that keeps the keyswitches at hand.
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
but it seems that way is very tedious. maybe it's the only real way.
Why does it seem tedious?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
i know you can set a lot of instruments (or articulations) in kontakt, as a multi. even in doing that, i suppose that it more or less would be the same thing.
Well you would be changing the MIDI channels for the notes, whichseems more complex to me. And have loaded several copies of the instrument into Kontakt.
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
that's the way i have been doing it, but it seems that way is very tedious. maybe it's the only real way. i know you can set a lot of instruments (or articulations) in kontakt, as a multi. even in doing that, i suppose that it more or less would be the same thing.

i have session horns and kirk hunter strings.
Unless you have very simple arrangements that may only require a sustain or legato, one way or another you probably are going to need a few articulations to make things sound right. I don't have either the Session Horns and Kirk Hunter Strings, but it sounds like they might have individual nki files for each of the different articulations. Also they are probably setup on different midi channels.

Do they offer you the ability to use key-switches? Personally I don't mind using key-switches because I've been using them for many years. However, I understand how it might be a turnoff for those not used to them. Unfortunately, if not the key-switches, then it will probably have to be midi channels, and I personally don't care for that.

I think if you know which articulation(s) to use at any given time, then key-switches are the way to go.

There is this multi script that my friend Robert Villwock (aka Big Bob) and I put together. This script is perfect for using the various libraries that we're talking about, but there is a learning curve.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=165310
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Old 03-20-2016, 04:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
... it all depends ...

In the Kontakt instruments I have here, key-switching to select a different articulation is done by sending a particular MIDI note to Kontakt. Just add them to your MIDI clip (or play them from your MIDI keyboard).

Different library developers use different keys for articulations (check their User Guides). So the precise method will differ too.

Here is a simple example, using a Factory Library instrument:

>>> https://i.imgur.com/HoNigKl.png

-- the articulation keys are indicated in red / green on the Kontakt keyboard
-- and shown in the GUI (they can be selected there too)
-- the playable keys are blue

And a MIDI clip (I typed in the articulation names as Note Names):



-- the first few notes are played with the Sustain articulation
-- the others are Pizzicato.

Which particular libraries are you using?
This actually helps me with a question I was going to ask. Thanks
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Old 03-20-2016, 05:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Unless you have very simple arrangements that may only require a sustain or legato, one way or another you probably are going to need a few articulations to make things sound right. I don't have either the Session Horns and Kirk Hunter Strings, but it sounds like they might have individual nki files for each of the different articulations. Also they are probably setup on different midi channels.

Do they offer you the ability to use key-switches? Personally I don't mind using key-switches because I've been using them for many years. However, I understand how it might be a turnoff for those not used to them. Unfortunately, if not the key-switches, then it will probably have to be midi channels, and I personally don't care for that.

I think if you know which articulation(s) to use at any given time, then key-switches are the way to go.

There is this multi script that my friend Robert Villwock (aka Big Bob) and I put together. This script is perfect for using the various libraries that we're talking about, but there is a learning curve.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=165310
thanks, tod. i believe you posted that before, and i should have read it then. it looks like it will be a steep lc. i guess the writing into the piano roll is the best way. i don't do any of these "live", so i can always go back and edit.

i think i mentioned before that the one bummer with session horns is that you need to put the ks note in the editor, pre-note played. i haven't even attempted it yet with the kh strings, but i will this evening.

thanks, and i'll take a look at your script. it sounds like it would be quite helpful.
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Old 03-20-2016, 08:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74 View Post
thanks, tod. i believe you posted that before, and i should have read it then. it looks like it will be a steep lc. i guess the writing into the piano roll is the best way. i don't do any of these "live", so i can always go back and edit.
If you're relatively new to this dmoss74, then yeah, that's going to be a big step.

I think what you need to do is just work with key-switches for while until they start to make good sense. And yes, creating your own Note Names is a big help.

Quote:
i think i mentioned before that the one bummer with session horns is that you need to put the ks note in the editor, pre-note played. i haven't even attempted it yet with the kh strings, but i will this evening.
Yes, and that's true with any library with key-switches, in order for the key-switch to work, it has to be ahead of the notes, otherwise how will the instrument know.

What can be fun is when you have a chord and each note needs a different key-switch, that can require some very precise positioning.
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
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What can be fun is when you have a chord and each note needs a different key-switch, that can require some very precise positioning.
can't wait! thanks
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:01 PM   #12
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I'm using Kontakt Player.



I can use key-switch articulation changes while playing, but entering the appropriate note in the midi track doesn't work. And as you can see, I have no red or green keys showing. Does the lack of colored keys indicate that the recording of key-switch articulation changes is disabled in Kontakt PLAYER? Please tell me I'm just missing something.

Thanks
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:19 PM   #13
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I'm using Kontakt Player.



I can use the keyswitching while playing, but entering the appropriate note in the midi track doesn't work. And as you can see, I have no red or green keys showing. Is this disabled in Kontakt PLAYER? Please tell me I'm just missing something.

Thanks
Hi ReaperMadness, since I've always had Kontakt full from K2 to K5, I'm not exactly sure about Kontakt Player.

However, you should be seeing the keyswitches on the virtual keyboard, unless you have more that one instrument loaded. In that case, if you select the nki instrument with the mouse cursor to make it current, it should then show the colors. At least I think that's the way it's supposed to work.

At any rate, if you've got your midi track directed to Kontakt with the right midi channel, your keyswitches should work.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:05 PM   #14
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Thanks for the response, Tod. I didn't know about the "one instrument loaded" - makes sense. It's getting a little late for me here, so I'll get into it tomorrow and go over it carefully to see if I can get things straightened out, based on your information. I'll report back then.

As always, your Kontakt insights are valued and much appreciated. Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:28 AM   #15
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^^^^
Also, let us know exactly which instrument that is so we can have a look at it too.
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Old 05-18-2016, 02:29 PM   #16
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Tod & DS - 'Show's over, folks. No problem, nothing to look at. It was just me exercising my lack of knowledge... again.

Tod - you are exactly right (natch). All that was required was for me to either select the instrument in question (Elements String Ensemble) or mute the others in the rack.

All happy now, see:



Thank you, gentlemen - Sorry for the dust-up.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:31 AM   #17
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No problem; it'll help out others too.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:38 PM   #18
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Lightbulb Found this today as well:

@dmoss74: I'm sure you've found a solution by now, but I just saw this today and it looks promising for me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZZ3...LgcAgE&index=1
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