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06-04-2012, 05:52 PM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere Between 120 and 150 BPM
Posts: 7,968
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MSI-X58A-GD65
Intel 980X
24GB GSkill
4 x Raptors
Soniccore XITE-1 1U DSP Rack
AES/EBU ADAT Analog XLR's + 2 x MicPres
__________________
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Last edited by XITE-1/4LIVE; 06-27-2012 at 08:17 PM.
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06-06-2012, 03:58 PM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 32
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Surprised how bad the latencies are with the Audiofire 12 in the OP!
I was thinking of getting 2 daisy chained to replace my mixer....
I guess that's how Echo fakes their "low latencies"... with a hidden buffer...
But I'm keeping my Delta 66 PCI for softsynths and pipe the audio via Spdif into my main interface
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06-21-2012, 03:15 PM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ
Some results
Windows 7 64 bit SP1
Gigabyte X58a-UD3R with i7 930 at 4 ghz
When I have Speedfan running there is a jump in spike in latencies here and there...
M-Audio Delta 66 PCI
buffer size and reported latency / measured
32 : NA
64 1.45ms : 136-7 samples / 3.08 3.11ms - alternates between the two
128 2.90ms : 264-5 samples / 5.99 6.01ms
256 5.8ms : 520-1 samples / 11.79 11.81ms
512 11.61ms : 1032-33 samples / 23.40 23.42 ms
1024 23.22ms: 2056-57 samples / 46.62 46.64 ms
Delta 66 was my old and first card - seems pretty snappy still! I don't use it for it's analog I/O, just the SPDIF input and as a softsynth playback/recording into my main interface. I figured being a PCI system it would be snappy and I was right
Saffire PRO 24 DSP Firewire
buffer size and reported latency / measured
32 : NA
64 1.45ms : 253-4 samples / 5.74 5.76ms - alternates, but mostly stable on lower value
128 2.90ms : 381-2 samples / 8.64 8.66ms
256 5.8ms : 637-8 samples / 14.44 14.47ms
512 11.61ms : 1149-50 samples / 26.05 26.08 ms
1024 23.22ms: 2173 samples / 49.27 ms Stable
My main interface for now... but I am looking to get something with better coverters and more inputs and outputs to replace my mixer.
Sometimes there is a big delay before the test fires - not sure why... maybe just the suck of Firewire...
The test reported the driver requests ASIO reset on every change - the Delta 66 above does not do this. Can be annoying if you switch in and out of audio software a lot... I guess I should make my Delta 66 as the main card and pipe the audio into my Saffire....
Latency not so good, but to be fair when I play soft synths at 256 buffer size, I don't notice major latency. Hardware synths have 4-10+ ms latency in any case!
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New driver and software for the Saffire - need to restest as the Saffire can do 32 samples now
• Driver updated to 4.0.0 release
• Improves performance on Windows 7 (x86/x64)
• Improves performance in Pro Tools 10 (Win and Mac)
• Updated available sample buffer sizes
• Sample buffer size now scales with sample rate (I.e. At 44.1 KHz a buffer size of 32 samples is used. Changing to 88.2 KHz increases buffer to 64 samples)
• No longer requires use of Windows legacy Firewire driver (Due to this, users who also use the Focusrite Liquid Mix are recommended to ensure that both products are run on separate FireWire buses. If this is not possible then users are recommended to continue using Saffire Mix Control 2.4)
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07-11-2012, 10:52 PM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Baltimore,MD
Posts: 920
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Using RME Digiface tied to SSL Alpha Link
Win7 X64 i5-750 Asus P7P55D-E LX 12gig
@32 128 samples/4.13ms
@64 246 samples/5.58ms
@128 374 samples/8.48ms
@256 630 samples/14.29ms
@512 1142 samples/25.90ms
@1024 2166/samples 49.12ms
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07-17-2012, 01:27 AM
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#85
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
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really good reaper track ............fine
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05-26-2013, 02:06 AM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: in the cellar
Posts: 351
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M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496
M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496
44100Hz
@ 64 - 195 samples / 4.42 ms (works fine with roundabout 15 active plugins while having only one track inside the project)
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@ 128 - 322 samples / 7.30 ms (works fine with roundabout 15 active plugins while having only one track inside the project)
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@ 256 - 579 samples / 13.13 ms (works fine with roundabout 15 active plugins while having only one track inside the project)
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@ 512 - 1090 samples / 24.72 ms (with a few clicks if many tracks inside the project (roundabout 40 tracks))
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@1024 - 2114 samples / 47.94 ms (works fine unless to many plugins)
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@2048 - 4163 samples / 94.40 ms (latency to high for MIDI)
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08-04-2013, 10:42 AM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 12
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Focusrite Saffire Pro14 & Saffire 6 USB (USB2.0 Model)
Saffire Pro14 w/Saffire Mix Control 3.2
32 164 samples / 3.72 ms
64 228 samples / 5.17 ms
128 356 samples / 8.07 ms
256 612 samples / 13.88 ms
Saffire 6 USB w/Focusrite USB 2.0 Audio Driver
32 491 samples / 11.13 ms (Buffer 1ms)
128 674 samples / 15.28 ms (Buffer 2ms)
256 1017 samples / 23.06 ms (Buffer 3ms)
512 2147 samples / 48.68 ms (Buffer 10ms)
Win7/64 Q8300@2.5GHz 4 GB
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09-13-2013, 11:54 PM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2
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heya
32 303 - 6.87
64 367 - 8.32
128 495 11.22
256 751 17.03
512 1263 28.64
1024 2287 51.86
2048 4335 98.30
@48
32//255//5.31
64//319//6.65
128//447//9.31
254//703//14.65
512//1215//25.31
1024//2239//46.65
2048//4287//89.31
now go back and see if the tweak improved @44
32//255//5.78
lets go tweak again ...
32//191//4.33 @44.1 ----
very very simple and easy tweak for ... i doubt i can get much more ...
******************
1.6 times faster .... - and simple and easy to do ...
******************
don't know it is is ... solid -- but - looks fine from here ....
... you can bug me for a bit - -- i will eventually tell .... --
i will work on the number a bit more
focusrite 24 -
Last edited by oweng; 09-14-2013 at 01:30 AM.
Reason: new results
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10-08-2013, 11:07 PM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,646
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M-Audio C400 Fast Track
128 / 5.2 MS
256 / 8.1 MS
512 / 13 MS
1024 / 25 MS
I am content. I mainly use SPDIF I/O connection.
During Recording I apply 128, I have heard if you want to hear yourself during playing and recording
without latency MS must not exceed 6 MS ?!
__________________________________________________ ___
REAPER 454 WIN 7 64 bit 8 GB RAM
Last edited by Naji; 01-17-2015 at 05:20 AM.
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12-16-2014, 05:07 AM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,890
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how does this latency test work? what does this program do? its not clear. it sends a pulse and why? i ONLY set my asio4all buffer size to the best it can manage without cracking up and leave it there. so why are people in this thread making several tests and posting those numbers? how is this useful?
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12-16-2014, 06:28 AM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Baltimore,MD
Posts: 920
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The pulse as you call it is actually a ping.. You can plug your interface outputs into its inputs to create a loop...
The ping measures how long it takes to travel out of the interface thru DA converter then thru it's analog output then travel thru that cable back into the interfaces analog input then to its AD converter back to that software...
It's not taking into account the DAW on latency..
But it shows you the difference between all the different interface (AD/DA with micpres) and converters (just AD/DA) which I use..
But each company can have different times.. Because of converters the clocks they build then the analog side..now of course most of them the analog timing would be about the same its the converters and clocks that cause the difference in delay.
So the reason to post is to show the difference so you don't have to test a bunch of units..
But also because people who use outboard gear when mixing want low latency or as low as you can get.
Since reaper can't seem to fix the plugin for pinging hardware used on inserts to ping correctly..
Which you can do once you have the numbers for your converter is then enter that number in the plugin window for (external gear). So I have mine written down not in front of me... But if I was mixing and I had my buffer at that point set to 256 or 512 and say I wanted to use some outboard gear on a bass... I would add that external gear plugin.. Set its output to one of my SSL outs run that into outboard comp,EQ and then back into SSL input and then select that same input in the external gear plugin... Now I've created a loop (effect send/return on bass).
In that plugin window instead of hitting ping (which gets it wrong a lot) I will look at my notes cheat sheet..
And if my buffer was 256 I'd look at that row or if I was 512 I'd look at that row... And those rows that I made are based on measurement at 44.1 and I'd put those numbers in the plug that generally is more on time then Reaper doing it itself.. Most times. Also with the samples info you could slide a track to make the difference as well... I don't do that nearly as much as the pro tools days.. Honestly for me I've been using my outboard for tracking and not as much during mixing lately just to make tweaks and recalls easier.
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12-16-2014, 07:09 AM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious
how does this latency test work? what does this program do? its not clear. it sends a pulse and why? i ONLY set my asio4all buffer size to the best it can manage without cracking up and leave it there. so why are people in this thread making several tests and posting those numbers? how is this useful?
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Last thing first, how is this useful? You want as little latency as possible or at least low enough that you can manage whatever you are doing with your DAW. This becomes critical when you play live (instruments) thru the DAW and cannot or don't want to use direct (zero latency) monitoring. May also be crucial when mixing through outboard gear. In these cases you are affected by RTL, roundtrip latency.
What these tests show are the roundtrip latencies of different audio interfaces at different buffer sizes. So you have some real world data to refer to especially when you need to check what interfaces could do better than your current one. Not something you may think of if you are happy with your current one already, but surely something to keep in mind when updating your gear.
You can check how it works from here:
http://www.centrance.com/products/ltu/
DAWbench site has been keeping a latency database for years already. http://www.dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency3.htm
What could be done here is to maybe include even more info about each test setup, like some have done. There are so many different possible configurations, after all.
--
edit: Faderjockey was already there.
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12-16-2014, 07:16 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Baltimore,MD
Posts: 920
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Now that you mention it...looking back I did my test/check in 2012 it says.
I've since switched to SSD for OS only.. Think that would alter the outcome? Forgot to try out those test again to see if it's different.. I'll have to do it tomorrow when back at studio just to see..
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12-19-2014, 03:14 PM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,890
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ok thanks for the tips, got it working. also i found out that plugins that cause massive pdc like reaverb cause latency balooning. forgot.
Last edited by reapercurious; 12-19-2014 at 03:41 PM.
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03-14-2015, 02:19 PM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Baltimore,MD
Posts: 920
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spam once again on here...
Last edited by Ollie; 03-14-2015 at 04:37 PM.
Reason: removed quoted spam link
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06-02-2015, 01:20 AM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 561
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Hello,
I have RME UCX, had Metric Halo ULN-8 and now Apogee with no latency issues at all.
Last edited by Daniovan; 06-02-2015 at 01:41 AM.
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09-25-2015, 11:11 PM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2
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RME Fireface UCX Latency
Great Unit, The CEntrance measure tool reported.
This has worked flawlessly with reaper.
Currently using.
Input 1-2 Microphones.
Input 3 Bass
Input 5-6 Stereo in from Zoom g7.1ut Pedal +4 out then thru (output 3-4 bypass) to a fender FM212R Amp, which is mic'd up (input 1).
Optical Out - Edirol MA-10D (A/B speakers)
Line Out 1 & 2 - +4 Line to ADAM A7X monitors
Latency
192khz - 192samples - 3.51ms
96k -96sample - 3.68ms
44.1k - 48samples - 4.14ms
44.1k - 128samples - 8.08ms
44.1k - 1024sample - 40.48ms
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01-13-2017, 05:46 AM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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Any chance this thread can be merged with the other one in the Reaper General Discussion Forum? The one titled "Round Trip Latency Roundup".
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12-02-2017, 09:16 AM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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Motu 828x
Windows 10
Asus tuff z270 i7 770 4.20, 32 gb ram
44.100khz
64 samples - 1.45ms
96 samples - 2.18 ms
128 samples - 2.90 ms
192 samples - 4.35 ms
256 samples - 5.80 ms
512 samples - 11.61 ms
1024 smles - 23.22 ms
i did it twice and same results
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12-02-2017, 10:21 AM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnss
Windows 10
Asus tuff z270 i7 770 4.20, 32 gb ram
44.100khz
64 samples - 1.45ms
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Please could you clarify:
1.How your interface is connected to computer
2.How you measured your latency and where you are reading these figures from.
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12-02-2017, 10:58 AM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645
Please could you clarify:
1.How your interface is connected to computer
2.How you measured your latency and where you are reading these figures from.
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From the CEntrance asio latency test utility, then changed the buffer each time...
´am i doing it wrong?
its connected via Thunderbolt 3 (Alpine Ridge 4C 2015
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12-02-2017, 01:33 PM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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The figures just seem very low....doesn't the MOTU use a dsp mixer?
Presonus Quantum was touted as the lowest TB latency to date when it came out and at 64 samples 44.1k it runs 1.9ms (No dsp). An interface with dsp shouldn't be able to beat it in theory.
Maybe I'm missing something!
Last edited by Stella645; 12-02-2017 at 01:41 PM.
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12-02-2017, 02:09 PM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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Yes theres a built-in mixer with effects in it, but i have never used them (i disabled fx)
I have 2 lexicon mpx550, and other hardware i want to use one day when i learned more of using reaper but maybe i should look into the motufx one day
Before buying reaper i DID hear about the low latency - unlike other daws, so im happy i never had any audio glitches
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12-02-2017, 03:05 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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I found another users test results using TB on the MOTU. They did not manage anything under 7ms at 44.1k.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12967785-post1613.html
It seems they just bridged the old f/w controller to TB for this unit so latency is pretty much the same the old f/w units.
So maybe you're doing something wrong in your testing. What i/o figures does Reaper actually report for 64 samples, 44.1k?
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12-02-2017, 06:54 PM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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That figure does sound suspiciously low. Are you sure that the signal isn't looping back through the internal mixer without going out and back in through the D/A and A/D converters?
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12-03-2017, 12:00 AM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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I dont know know...i just used the app like others here.
How do i test latency via reaper ?
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12-03-2017, 08:22 AM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,738
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If you open reaper, and are using the asio driver for your device, reaper should show you in the top right corner what latency the audio driver is reporting at the buffer size you are using.
Now, this isn't measured by reaper, it's just what the driver reports. It should be accurate, but often isn't, commonly because some drivers don't allow for converter latency, and any other safety buffers beyond the asio buffer size.
The reason it's worth looking at is that if the figure reported is larger than what you measured, then likely something has been done wrong in your measuring procedure.
Most likely having the signal being routed back to the record input through the mixer in the audio interface, so that it doesn't go out of the interface through a D/A converter, through a cable, and back through a A/D converter.
That's the real latency you get with analog sources and monitoring.
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12-09-2017, 04:32 AM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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Back again...´after spending a lot of time reinstalling on my musicpc (not this one)
Reaper says 44.1khz 24bit wav 8/2ch 64spls - 2.6/3.2ms
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12-09-2017, 07:55 AM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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So the reported RTL in Reaper is nearly 5.8ms....and there will almost certainly be some hidden buffers with the dsp mixer so the other users figures of over 7ms sound about right.
So yes....your CeEntrance figures are impossible I'm afraid. Maybe you've not connected the output to input correctly or are somehow bypassing that physical cable connection with an internal one.
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12-09-2017, 08:51 AM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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Ok, is that slow then ?
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12-09-2017, 09:01 AM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnss
Ok, is that slow then ?
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Compared to a real TB interface it's slow. In general (comparing to f/w and USB interfaces) it's slightly above average.
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12-09-2017, 10:25 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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Ok i actually always use 96 khz 24 bit, and now reaper says 128spls - 2.3/2.8ms
now thats fast ai? :-) or not ?
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12-09-2017, 10:42 AM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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FYI, the sweet spot for low latency (when required) vs. processing headroom is usually 48k sample rate. There's a reason most of us bump the sample rate from 96k down to 48k for live sound work. Do loopback tests at every sample rate and see for yourself.
And of course latency only matters if you are actually live monitoring a live input. Would be a moot point for mixing and other post production work.
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12-09-2017, 10:52 AM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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The AI didn't get any faster....you just made a faster setting.
Any other interface will also improve at 96k so sorry, but your interface is exactly the same just above average performer
The only thing that matters is whether it works OK for your needs.
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12-09-2017, 02:14 PM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: DK
Posts: 71
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the 96khz/24 is because; i used it on all of my beloved vinyls - the restoration of them (350+, most of them 12") took me allmost 1 year
and are "manually" restored via izotope rx 6, (no automate "select all" here :-) ) rx6 is the best of them all
In Formula One "specs": 5.8ms is 0.0058 sec, so im happy on that :-)
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12-09-2017, 03:37 PM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnss
the 96khz/24 is because; i used it on all of my beloved vinyls - the restoration of them (350+, most of them 12") took me allmost 1 year
and are "manually" restored via izotope rx 6, (no automate "select all" here :-) ) rx6 is the best of them all
In Formula One "specs": 5.8ms is 0.0058 sec, so im happy on that :-)
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Right, but this is not an example that requires low latency. If you are only doing this kind of thing (ie post work) and NOT performing through synths or whatever instruments in the computer or running sound for a live stage, you don't need low latency performance.
You'll want to pause and wrap your head around that before you go spending a lot of money on a feature you may not ever actually use.
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08-09-2018, 01:51 PM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,651
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I have a Motu 828es via USB3.
24bit/96k
64k buffer for recording with plugins
1.3/2.0 ms reported by reaper...3.3ms total.
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11-21-2018, 11:49 PM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Ruhr Area, Germany
Posts: 977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645
Presonus Quantum was touted as the lowest TB latency to date when it came out and at 64 samples 44.1k it runs 1.9ms (No dsp).
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I got me a Presonus Quantum 2 and can confirm, that it‘s performance is superb.
I use it on a mid2014 Macbook Pro, but it is also supported on Windows.
__________________
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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11-22-2018, 04:42 PM
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#119
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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Has anyone got any Dante numbers? Dying to see them!
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11-22-2018, 10:46 PM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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Audio 6
Native Instruments "Audio 6" (6*in , 6*out, Midi I/O):
Set to 44.1k Samples/sec, block size 256 -> 5.8 mSec latency equivalent to 1.9 m free air.
Works perfect for Live playing with my very complex keyboard setup.
I tested a guitar setup that needs an audio input and hence doubles the latency. Here I would recommend to use half the block size for a "perfectly playable" latency (some 2 m free air equivalent).
-Michael
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