Support smooth scroll/zoom (non-stepped)

[mschnell]

Of course an option would be perfectly acceptable. But the default should be "not hamper audio".

-Michael

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Of course an option would be perfectly acceptable. But the default should be "not hamper audio".

-Michael

Yes I can agree with that.

I think the ideal implementation would be to add an option in Advanced UI/system settings window underneath the related "Throttle mouse-events" checkboxes (which by default prevent inertial scrolling/zooming and can be unchecked to allow it).

The option could for example be called "Prevent UI smoothening" and give 2 checkboxes, one a for scrolling and one for zooming, checked by default. By unchecking both, smooth scrolling and zooming would be enabled.

Or maybe an easier way for the devs would be to just add separate actions.

We now have:
- View: Scroll horizontally (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- View: Scroll vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- View: Zoom horizontally (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- View: Zoom vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- All these actions 'reversed'

We could get:
- View: Smooth scroll horizontally (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- View: Smooth scroll vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- View: Smooth zoom horizontally (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- View: Smooth zoom vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)
- All these actions 'reversed'

Though with the separate actions approach it could confuse some users and fail to make them understand what smooth scrolling/zooming means or which CPU implications it may have. Or the users might not search for it in the action list and miss out on the feature. Hence why I think the solution of putting the options into UI settings and having the option affect all scrolling/zooming actions makes most sense.

[More Sound]

Fantastic breakdown, I agree 100%

[ovnis]

We could zoom or scroll without the mousewheel.

For exemple : we press CTRL+Alt, we maintain the right mouse button pressed and we move the mouse. It would be far more fluid, accurate and quick than the classical mousewheel.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by ovnis

We could zoom or scroll without the mousewheel.

For exemple : we press CTRL+Alt, we maintain the right mouse button pressed and we move the mouse. It would be far more fluid, accurate and quick than the classical mousewheel.

I'm not sure that I understand..but isn't scrolling/zooming by mouse-dragging already fluid?

For example when I left-click the ruler and drag the mouse it smoothly scrolls pixel by pixel. Same with horizontal zoom on ruler or dragging tracks to increase height.

The whole point of this FR is kind of making it graphically as smooth and precise with the mousewheel too.

The reason why the mousewheel is more convenient is that you can scroll/zoom far distances without having to move your whole arm repeatedly left and right and lift the mouse 10 times. You just move one finger. And with the inertial scrolling (which we already can have) you only need 1 strong swipe to go far or 1 gentle swipe to move slightly. The only problem (and reason for this FR) is that for small distances the UI moves in jerky steps making scrolling/zooming via mousewheel less precise and more eye-straining than it should be.

[ovnis]

I'm not sure that I understand..but isn't scrolling/zooming by mouse-dragging already fluid?

Yes, it's fluid but it's not possible to have vertical zoom with mouse drag inside Reaper! Only horizontal!

It would be great to have a mouse modifier which allows to make vertical or horizontal zoom depending on the horizontal or vertical movement of the mouse.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by ovnis

It would be great to have a mouse modifier which allows to make vertical or horizontal zoom depending on the horizontal or vertical movement of the mouse.

OK I think I understand. When you move the mouse without modifier you move the pointer and when you move the mouse with modifier you scroll or zoom. That may be a good workflow, even though I still prefer mousewheel.

Anyway it is an entirely different FR about adding new ways to scroll and zoom, not necessarily related to making the UI response smoother for classic scroll and zoom.

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by Phazma

OK I think I understand. When you move the mouse without modifier you move the pointer and when you move the mouse with modifier you scroll or zoom. That may be a good workflow, even though I still prefer mousewheel.

Anyway it is an entirely different FR about adding new ways to scroll and zoom, not necessarily related to making the UI response smoother for classic scroll and zoom.

If you're on macOS, check out MOS (https://mos.caldis.me) which has a smooth scrolling option which made scrolling in REAPER frighteningly smooth for me. YMMV.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by sockmonkey72

If you're on macOS, check out MOS (https://mos.caldis.me) which has a smooth scrolling option which made scrolling in REAPER frighteningly smooth for me. YMMV.

Thank for pointing it out. But idk.. I have tried it and there was no perceptible difference.

Maybe it is not compatible with Apple's own Magic Mouse, which I use? As far as I can understand MOS tries to emulate the typical smooth scrolling which the Magic Mouse is known for and bring it to people who use other mice which are normally unable to smooth-scroll.
Maybe, when using the Magic Mouse, MOS smoothening conflicts with macOS native smoothening and thus has no effect?

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by Phazma

Thank for pointing it out. But idk.. I have tried it and there was no perceptible difference.

Maybe it is not compatible with Apple's own Magic Mouse, which I use? As far as I can understand MOS tries to emulate the typical smooth scrolling which the Magic Mouse is known for and bring it to people who use other mice which are normally unable to smooth-scroll.
Maybe, when using the Magic Mouse, MOS smoothening conflicts with macOS native smoothening and thus has no effect?

I was using it with an external Logitech mouse, maybe it doesn't like the MM...? Sorry!

[tonalstates]

Originally Posted by sockmonkey72

If you're on macOS, check out MOS (https://mos.caldis.me) which has a smooth scrolling option which made scrolling in REAPER frighteningly smooth for me. YMMV.

That's awesome! thanks, I needed that.

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by tonalstates

That's awesome! thanks, I needed that.

Just found this one, too: does it improve stuff for the MM? It has application-specific settings, which is nice.

https://www.marcmoini.com/sx_en.html

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by sockmonkey72

Just found this one, too: does it improve stuff for the MM? It has application-specific settings, which is nice.

https://www.marcmoini.com/sx_en.html

This one definitely has effect on the MM but it seems only to be able to change scrolling speed and has no option for smoothening (or animating, or interpolating, or whatever it is called) scrolling.

Thank you btw for taking the time to search for alternatives. Maybe there is something out there that works, but I think eventually Cockos really should do something to solve this natively. In my experience all apps and DAWs by default scroll and zoom smoothly (at least with Apple mouse and trackpad) and if Reaper doesn't do so because of a slight performance cost then it should at least have it as an option for the many of us who care.

[Markcastle_]

Always me, I know, but I'd really appreciate this feature to be added, maybe like Phazma said (at least through one or two checkbox), even making it disabled at startup by default.

[Phazma]

Just bringing this request back to visibility. Still very much wanted.

[mutex]

+1

Scrolling up and down the tracks of a larger project really needs to be smooth.

The current scrolling style looks like I'm using an LCD of some vintage hardware gear.

[MonkeyBars]

+1
mid v6 definitely time for this modern UI behavior

[CQrity]

Another +1.
I think it puts a lot of stress on the eyes to have a shopped scrolling behaviour. Having the option would be great

[KMJoshi]

I too would be grateful for some UI improvements, and choppy scroll/zoom are definitely responsible for eyestrain.

[dennech]

+1
Also really looking forward for smooth (non-step) scrolling for my MX Master mouse and trackpad in Mac OS.

[sash2s]

+1 why this feature still not implemented on os x ?;( with no smooth native zoom/scroll reaper looks like old DAW. Very uncomfortable user experience.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by sash2s

why this feature still not implemented

Read this thread: dedicating CPU (and developers') power to audio is considered more valuable.

-Michael

[MonkeyBars]

It's incredible to me how bad OSes still are at handling scrolling.

My 2018 Mac Mini skips like crazy on scroll just streaming radio at 320k mp3 quality.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Read this thread: dedicating CPU (and developers') power to audio is considered more valuable.

-Michael

Sorry for verbal nitpicking but "is considered" is a bold statement. As this thread shows many people disagree. You might be right about about the devs though (otherwise we probably would have this feature already). So you could have phrased it as "dedicating CPU (and developers') power to audio is consider more valuable by some users and evidence suggests that the developers may agree with those users.

[mlprod]

It is 2022 now and for example Logic is smooth as butter so of course it could be done.

I am guessing this has more to do with the (likely) pain it would be to re-code the gui part of reaper.

[sash2s]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Read this thread: dedicating CPU (and developers') power to audio is considered more valuable.

-Michael

This is feature (smooth scroll) can be easy implemented, at least partially!
Reaper already have "HAND SCROLL" tool. Behaviour of this feature near similar like apple touchpad/mouse scroll: we can move "arrange view" to any directions while mouse button is pressed (in my settings this tool is attached to right mouse click).
If Reaper Developers at least add possibility to auto enable this tool ("HAND SCROLL") on simple left/right scroll event, this will make happy mac users than now. In this implementation still no inertia scrolling, but better than step scrolling.
I think implement of this feature won't be difficult (it need just adding activate "HAND SCROLL" tool on scroll event).

[Markcastle_]

Still no feature... We only ask for an option...

Where did the Cockos we knew go? The Cockos that listened to its customers ...

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Markcastle_

Still no feature... We only ask for an option...

Where did the Cockos we knew go? The Cockos that listened to its customers ...

I agree that the lack of this option is frustrating but other threads show that other people are as frustrated (or even more) about their "most important feature that all DAWs have" not being implemented. Let's try another strategy in this thread and be appreciative of the work that Cockos do and grateful for the features that we do get and I am sure we will eventually get this one too if we patiently keep the thread alive and contain (pun intended) our emotions. They do listen to us customers but they obviously can not listen to all of us immediately, even when we subjectively may think that our request is the most important one to make Reaper a complete DAW.

[rohi]

+1 on this

Windows user here, the scrolling and zooming could definitely be smoother. Would love to see the horizontal playback timeline scroll a bit smoother too

[nepenthe]

Originally Posted by rstockm

+1 for this one, it has been addressed (by macOS users) several times in several threads. Always on should be the default, with an opt-out for users concerned about CPU-load.

It's noteworthy to keep in mind, that there IS already a perfectly smooth scolling - for items - available as of now: disable "throttle mouse-events" in the advances UI Preferences and move some items around - butter-smooth mit 60FPS.

So it's a pity this doesn't apply - at least to the same extend - to the general scrolling.

Oh, that's a great tweak to know - thanks!

And yes, it would be great if the scrolling and zooming was smoother. Reaper definitely feels very clunky in this respect. I use a mouse with a stepped wheel which seems to be the best option right now.

[tzzsmk]

Ultraschall 5 conversion for Reaper can manage it somehow, it looks quite smooth for me:

https://youtu.be/vdLpynu1ixE?t=713

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by tzzsmk

Ultraschall 5 conversion for Reaper can manage it somehow, it looks quite smooth for me:

https://youtu.be/vdLpynu1ixE?t=713

Hmm.. it's hard to tell from the video how smooth it is. Also looks like who recorded the video has inertial scrolling disabled (=throttle mouse-events enabled). In my opinion the jerkiness is most noticeable when inertial scrolling is enabled (throttling disabled) and you give the mouse/trackpad a big swipe -> in that case when the scrolling slows down and reaches its end instead of the movement fading out the UI does a few last abrupt jumps until hard-stopping.

[nepenthe]

Originally Posted by rstockm

+1 for this one, it has been addressed (by macOS users) several times in several threads. Always on should be the default, with an opt-out for users concerned about CPU-load.

It's noteworthy to keep in mind, that there IS already a perfectly smooth scolling - for items - available as of now: disable "throttle mouse-events" in the advances UI Preferences and move some items around - butter-smooth mit 60FPS.

So it's a pity this doesn't apply - at least to the same extend - to the general scrolling.

I've been editing in Reaper today with this throttle tweak enabled and it is *amazing*. Is this seriously only a MacOS thing? Why?

[karlingen]

+1

[Markcastle_]

+1

Any news?

I'm okay that I have to wait, but at least tell us:

1) Is this feature is in program to be added?
a) if yes: when approximately?
b) if no : I) why not? II) will it be in future?

2) How:
a) challenging would be to add it?
b) much work would require it considering Reaper current GUI's architecture?

[MikeKravets]

+1, simply to refresh this thread

[ovnis]

Good idea but not always for the vertical zoom (because inside some themes, like mine, TCP can be created to fit well with only some amounts of zoom)!

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Good idea but not always for the vertical zoom (because inside some themes, like mine, TCP can be created to feet well with only some amounts of zoom)!

you mean fit?

Maybe it should be an option, but I don't like how both scroll and (marquee) zoom snap to full tracks. I find it very very useful to view partial tracks, far more efficient use of screen real estate.

[ovnis]

To avoid than some knobs being cut, for exemple.

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by ovnis

To avoid than some knobs being cut, for exemple.

Yes but when I do this it's just to view the tops or bottoms of items for reference. I'm not editing partially displayed tracks directly