Support smooth scroll/zoom (non-stepped)

[Markcastle_]

Originally Posted by Phazma

I am sure they have already. It keeps popping up in FR (and the other thread in macOS forum) and I even posted a link to the new release thread as other related features have been implemented. Probably they just don’t feel like doing this right now.

I think we can only keep this thread constantly alive with new people agreeing and discussing the implementation and perhaps some day they will see this again when they have time and consider actually implementing it.

I'm trying to find a way to tag Justin, even if I think like you, they've read all 🤣

Hope they won't find this unnecessary 🙄

[Joe Miller]

+1

Magic Trackpad no longer useable for me with Reaper, dunno if it's an unfortunate side effect of the inertia/swipe features added, but would love to see it made precise and WITHOUT LAG!!!

Everything nowadays seems to lag so much, humans are so much faster than this but developers (not talking about Cockos guys of course) seem to think operational lags of 100-500ms or more in UIs are 'working well'. Just try the mess that is Spotify if you want to see what I mean, the app seems to have an organic and schroedinger-inspired response to button presses that is anywhere from 200ms to 4 seconds (and I'm not talking about the obvious delay in start seeking a newly chosen track, just the crap UI menus and buttons!)

I recently had to boot my 2004 computer to get some stuff out of Logic 5 on pc, and it's hilarious what we are now putting up with in 2021 that has become the norm in OS and App UI's, the old PC does everything mechanically the very instant you click on it, and the timeline cursor looks like it's running along at 120fps. Everything now feels like it's running inside a VM inside a VM and being controlled from a terminal over the internet.

[cool]

+1

I have long noticed an interesting feature: when creating a time selection, the entire GUI is updated faster. You can check it yourself: press Play, and hold down the mouse button and drag slowly, creating a time selection (or Razor, or Lasso). While moving the mouse, the Play cursor will move very smoothly.

[Delucci]

Originally Posted by cool

+1

I have long noticed an interesting feature: when creating a time selection, the entire GUI is updated faster. You can check it yourself: press Play, and hold down the mouse button and drag slowly, creating a time selection (or Razor, or Lasso). While moving the mouse, the Play cursor will move very smoothly.

That's very true, just checked that!

[Joe Miller]

Originally Posted by cool

+1

I have long noticed an interesting feature: when creating a time selection, the entire GUI is updated faster. You can check it yourself: press Play, and hold down the mouse button and drag slowly, creating a time selection (or Razor, or Lasso). While moving the mouse, the Play cursor will move very smoothly.

You're right and I suspect that smooth momentary play cursor is what folks would like to see all of the time. I do see a little screen tearing effect on it akin to what you get in computer games drawing across the screen, but it seems localised to the cursor line, but otherwise it's super smooth when you are doing that selection or lasoo.

[mschnell]

Obviously, when dragging, fast GUI update is considered more preferable than low CPU, while in playback, low CPU is considered more preferable, as much of the CPU power is eaten by the audio rendering.

Both at the same time is done seldom and hence not considered a case that needs special handling,

-Michael

[Delucci]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Obviously, when dragging, fast GUI update is considered more preferable than low CPU, while in playback, low CPU is considered more preferable, as much of the CPU power is eaten by the audio rendering.

Both at the same time is done seldom and hence not considered a case that needs special handling,

-Michael

Ok, now I noticed how my cpu works when doing this in Reaper. From 0~6% in playback, to 20~22% in playback while creating time selection. But it shouldn't be this much of use, right? I currently have a i5 4460..

[rstockm]

Originally Posted by Joe Miller

Everything nowadays seems to lag so much, humans are so much faster than this but developers (not talking about Cockos guys of course) seem to think operational lags of 100-500ms or more in UIs are 'working well'. Just try the mess that is Spotify if you want to see what I mean, the app seems to have an organic and schroedinger-inspired response to button presses that is anywhere from 200ms to 4 seconds (and I'm not talking about the obvious delay in start seeking a newly chosen track, just the crap UI menus and buttons!)

Amen. This is an outstanding longread:

https://danluu.com/input-lag/

[mozart999uk]

Originally Posted by rstockm

Amen. This is an outstanding longread:

https://danluu.com/input-lag/

Jeepers that's an amazing article.

I've always been jealous of my iphone owning friends for how quickly they can scroll through pictures in their gallery but thought it was just my imagination.

[Aikido123]

Originally Posted by 12345678

looking at the horrible outdated gui's Reaper has i doubt they will add those features..

Getting worse as the years go by.

[Kaxaze music]

Hoping for this feature for so long

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Delucci

Ok, now I noticed how my cpu works when doing this in Reaper. From 0~6% in playback, to 20~22% in playback while creating time selection. But it shouldn't be this much of use, right? I currently have a i5 4460..

My cpu (i7 2,2ghz) in an empty project goes approx. from 1,5% to 3% when creating a selection during playback. Did you use Reaper's own cpu meter to measure this?

[12345678]

Originally Posted by Phazma

My cpu (i7 2,2ghz) in an empty project goes approx. from 1,5% to 3% when creating a selection during playback. Did you use Reaper's own cpu meter to measure this?

Mine goes from 0.1% to 8%

[Delucci]

Originally Posted by Phazma

My cpu (i7 2,2ghz) in an empty project goes approx. from 1,5% to 3% when creating a selection during playback. Did you use Reaper's own cpu meter to measure this?

Yes, I used performance meter from Reaper. That's weird.
But I noticed also that while editing an audiobook project, my CPU usually goes between 10~14% (using eq, comp, desser and limiter from Fabfilter), but suddenly, it hangs around 24~25%, making the screen laggier than ever, without any reason. It only goes away after I restart Reaper.

I might make a fresh install, but I'll have to backup my settings, toolbars, Reapack scripts etc..

edit: Also, doesn't even make sense. Why is my CPU at 14% while my track with mastering plugins are hitting 3~4%?
edit2: I'm testing stuff and posting here sorry. Just to clarify, there's something in that project template I'm using. I just opened another Reaper (portable) to test stuff and the CPU doesn't go high like that.

edit3: OK, I think I found the culprit. I'm using this script as a startup action. "Script: X-Raym_Change transport theme element background color according to ripple state.lua" this alone in an empty project makes CPU hangs around 10~12%. Guess I'll have to stop using that..

[nappies]

+1 from me

[foxAsteria]

I use right drag in the arrange to scroll small, left drag in navigator to scroll big, left drag in the ruler to zoom and right drag in navigator to zoom specific areas. This is all configured in mouse modifiers. Works perfectly.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by foxAsteria

I use right drag in the arrange to scroll small, left drag in navigator to scroll big, left drag in the ruler to zoom and right drag in navigator to zoom specific areas. This is all configured in mouse modifiers. Works perfectly.

If this works for you, great. For me (and I guess others in here) this would be too much cursor-position dependant. I want to be able to do big scrolls wherever my mouse is, without having to move the mouse cursor to the navigator. I want to zoom into the timeline without first having to move the mouse cursor to the ruler.

Also sometimes I want not too small and not too big scrolls. The right drag would only work for me if it kept scrolling a bit even after I release the mouse, depending on how quickly I moved it. How it is now I would easily run our of space for moving the mouse and would have to repeat the movement many times where I could scroll the same distance with only one horizontal wheel stroke.

Also having to remember left drag for wide scrolls and right drag for small scrolls is more complicated than neccessary. At that point I rather keep using the mouse in an intuitive way even if the jerkieness is a bit annoying.

[Delucci]

And the most important (to me anyways), the mouse wheel.
I actually have set a couple custom actions to behave as I intend.
When I zoom with mousewheel, I'd like to zoom where my mouse is. When I zoom with my keyboard (R and T, yeah, Pro Tools inheritance ), the zoom is where my edit cursor is.

It's a workaround but works..

[Nüwa]

+1 Really hope this gets implemented!

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Nüwa

+1 Really hope this gets implemented!

I am sure it will at some point. Cubendo had the same problem and people were complaining for years until at version 11 Steinberg finally implemented it. Now (to my knowledge) the only major DAW that still has no smooth scroll/zoom is Reaper.

[12345678]

Let's not forget that WIN 10 still doesn't have smooth scrolling in file explorer and other apps..

[Phazma]

Friendly bump.

[More Sound]

+1 please

[xoixa]

+1 from me

[vxzerg]

+1
still waiting

[Blankfiles]

+1 nice

[Coachz]

Smooth fan

[CQrity]

Another +1

[fistrock]

+1 here

[Cabaleiro]

Technically, 'smooth' zoom is just stepped zoom with more steps.

+1, bumping for eye strain reduction!

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Cabaleiro

Technically, 'smooth' zoom is just stepped zoom with more steps.

+1, bumping for eye strain reduction!

I think in smooth zoom the step size is 1 pixel.

[poetnprophet]

I've gotten lost in all the responses about what this FR actually is for (mousewheel scrolling I'm assuming??)

but, I do have my mousewheel click button set to something (not in the studio right now to verify) that turns my pointer into a hand in the arrange mode, and I can drag the whole arrange around. And it is very smooth.

just to be clear, I do support this FR

[YuriOl]

+1 from me

[Ilia Tilev]

+1 buump

[buyrunvelocity]

+1 yes please

[ovnis]

+1000

[tonalstates]

1+++++

[mschnell]

Nice but,...

if that would be "standard", users would start complaining about reduced audio performance, as you might notice with other DAWs ...
-Michael

[Phazma]

Michael you have already expressed your opinion about this FR clearly. By adding further comments you only give this thread more visibility, together with the numerous comments which are in favor of the FR. We, who desire the implementation of smooth scrolling and zooming, shall thank you for that

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Nice but,...

if that would be "standard", users would start complaining about reduced audio performance, as you might notice with other DAWs ...
-Michael

Why not an option?