Old 11-28-2021, 02:25 AM   #1
dupont
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Default clip launch

Will Reaper be the last DAW to integrate clip launching feature :
after.
ANother one did it https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...p?f=7&t=573898
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Old 11-28-2021, 02:36 AM   #2
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Gets my vote, it would be very useful for experimenting with clips.
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Old 11-29-2021, 08:47 AM   #3
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Yep, Ardour getting a clip launcher too. It's the only reason I look to other DAWs

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2...g-in-ardour-7/
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Old 12-01-2021, 08:39 PM   #4
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Logic
Mulab
Ardour
Digital Performer
Ableton
Bitwig
Garageband
Mixcraft
Cakewalk
Roland Zenbeats
MPC 2
FL Studio
Pro Tools

All have it

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Old 05-19-2022, 12:57 AM   #5
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Yep, Ardour getting a clip launcher too. It's the only reason I look to other DAWs

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2...g-in-ardour-7/
i'm using playtime which works pretty good. (although it's doing some funny things with the stowed away reagions.)
a native launcher would be better though!

the ardour concept of launching the clips with cue markers in the timeline sounds quite interesting. it's a new approach to the whole thing. i'm not sure, how it works in detail, but probably the markers store the information of all the clip slots playing in that moment. this actually even is an improvement over ableton. in ableton i always had the problem, that recording your session view performance to the arangement worked good, but if you screwed up and wanted to drop in a few bars earlier, you manualy had to find out, which clips had been playing there.
with cue markers this shouldn't be a problem!

of course there still should be a way tho render the whole arrangement into track items eventually.

another interesting concept works in bitwig: there you can open the clip launcher and the track view simultaniously and it's possible to drag clips between them. so you basicly can use the launcher as a clipboard, where you can write new parts of your song by trying combinations of clips and even record new ones. once you're happy with it, you just drag the thing into the arrangement.

anyway, playtime is good, but a native launcher would be better!

greetings,
stephen
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Old 05-19-2022, 09:59 AM   #6
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i'm using playtime which works pretty good. (although it's doing some funny things with the stowed away reagions.)
a native launcher would be better though!

the ardour concept of launching the clips with cue markers in the timeline sounds quite interesting. it's a new approach to the whole thing. i'm not sure, how it works in detail, but probably the markers store the information of all the clip slots playing in that moment. this actually even is an improvement over ableton. in ableton i always had the problem, that recording your session view performance to the arangement worked good, but if you screwed up and wanted to drop in a few bars earlier, you manualy had to find out, which clips had been playing there.
with cue markers this shouldn't be a problem!

of course there still should be a way tho render the whole arrangement into track items eventually.

another interesting concept works in bitwig: there you can open the clip launcher and the track view simultaniously and it's possible to drag clips between them. so you basicly can use the launcher as a clipboard, where you can write new parts of your song by trying combinations of clips and even record new ones. once you're happy with it, you just drag the thing into the arrangement.

anyway, playtime is good, but a native launcher would be better!

greetings,
stephen
That's why I currently use bitwig over reaper.
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Old 10-09-2022, 07:26 AM   #7
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There is a payed script

https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/playtime/
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Old 10-13-2022, 02:04 AM   #8
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Unfortunately, as a third party plugin it couldn't be as good as it is in Live or Bitwig. It's limited in this way and isn't very convenient. Plus Playtime is more for live performances rather than a production tool to try out different stuff while writing music.

So, personally I've been longing for this feature in Reaper. That's really necessary for production purposes.
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Old 10-13-2022, 11:08 AM   #9
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Clip launch is great, but for 5+ years of such requests nobody suggest any adequate implementation suggestion.
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Old 10-14-2022, 11:22 AM   #10
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For a script or built in implementation ?
I would love t have this as a built in function.

I think Bitwig and Ableton should be references for this!
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Old 10-15-2022, 01:34 AM   #11
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For a script or built in implementation ?
I would love t have this as a built in function.

I think Bitwig and Ableton should be references for this!
Whatever script or native solution.
I just imagine clip=item.
So we speaking about item launch.
When we speaking about "launch", we mean king of sampler for items.

We have a sampler in REAPER, it plays audio sources nice. I imagine,

1) allowing for RS5k to set playing source as MediaItem
2) allowing for RS5k to play MIDI items )oc cource ignoring adsr and some audio related stuff

would solve that request. Me or some more clever script writer can build a session view, based on this with some cool features even Ableton hasn't. For example, based on existing project I can build a session view based on regions (=scenes), consolidate group renders automatically.

API implementation:
reaper.TrackFX_SetNamedConfigParam(track, rs5k_position, 'FILENAME0', 'MediaItem: {0000-SOME-ITEM-GUID}')
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Old 10-15-2022, 04:02 AM   #12
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The massive production technique of using the scene /clips / events launch is when you create those clips they play around a certain number of bars, they loop.
But in the end after creating a few clips you should be able to record your live performance .

Lets say i have scene 1
event 1 (16 Bar Loop) looping 10 times
event 2 (4 Bar Loop) looping 16 times
event 3 (8 Bar loop) looping for 2 time

etc etc etc..

in the end i should be able to write this passages as a complete timeline songs structure.
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Old 10-15-2022, 04:53 AM   #13
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A native non-linear ClipLauncher would allow working with ideas non-destructivly. A very clean way of working --> there is a reason Devs use codebranches and only if they are right they get incorporated into the mainbranch. I would also like to work that way.

Back in my Bitwig-days I used the cliplauncher aside of my arrangment as "floating" drawingboard for non-destructivly trying out ideas (and variation of those). No matter where you are in the project no matter what is the current arrangment you can easily create nondestructivly ideas without "printing" them in the main (branch) arrangement.

Having the abilty to combine a "destructive" Arranger-view with a non-destructive Clip-launcher is pure gold.

--> I loved to have a "non-linear" idea-palette aside of the main arrangment, where I could very fast start from a 1 or 2 bar loop playing over the arrangment and tryning out and create differnt variations without touching my main arrangement --> also storing those ideas until I needed them was very handy. It is like a staging site (for webdesign) or a codebranch you are working on and only if it is ready you print it into the mainbranch (=Arrangment)

Now i have (in Reaper) a negative Barcount (ca. -300 Bars) to store my ideas and variations --> everything lower as 0 is just for sketches and ideas or variations of those. But this is only a suboptimal replacment of the workflow I used to... it is very messy to say the least.

Also when I used Vocals from a 2 hour movie file I loved to load it into the Clip-Launcher first and only pull out those parts I like and drag them into the arrangment. --> very clean way of working. You can use the Clip-Launcher as storing space for potential items, audiofiles etc... pre-cut them, clean them up and store the files/ideas in the Clip-Launcher until you come to the point in the arrangment where you need them...

If the Cliplauncher is visible at the same time as the arrangment-view (like in Bitwig, not in Ableton) you can combine the two to get an amazing workflow.

Having a (horizontal) split Arranger-view (like in Cubase) with indepentent views can serve in a very similar fashion... --> would love to see Reaper go totally modular --> so we could create multple Arranger windows --> like Blender or other 3D software where you get different angles/zoom-stages on the same object.

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Old 10-15-2022, 10:46 AM   #14
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The massive production technique of using the scene /clips / events launch is when you create those clips they play around a certain number of bars, they loop.
But in the end after creating a few clips you should be able to record your live performance .

Lets say i have scene 1
event 1 (16 Bar Loop) looping 10 times
event 2 (4 Bar Loop) looping 16 times
event 3 (8 Bar loop) looping for 2 time

etc etc etc..

in the end i should be able to write this passages as a complete timeline songs structure.
The only difference between Live and REAPER lack is the ability to play MIDI items (i.e. you play C3 on your keyboard - the DAW play clip/item sequence). Except this everything from Live can be ported to Reaper, correct me if I`m wrong. Playtime plugin does pretty the same what Live do with the clips on the timeline.

What I imagine is the ability to load items into RS5k.
For MIDI items - this allow to play sequences.
For audio it reduce the need to render item/take stuff (fades, stretch markers, envelopes, take FX)
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Old 10-15-2022, 01:19 PM   #15
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The way I see it, Clip Launcher must be fully integrated in Reaper as its integral part not as a third party plugin so that you don't have to activate sth else in respect of a specific track. I mean it's supposed to be always docked and viewed (on demand), like on the left next to a mixer track channel (or maybe integrated within it) so that every time you select another track you could see the list of all the clips of that track respectively like in Bitwig (which is better) or in Live. The problem of Live is that you could see either Session View or Arrange View, not both, and it's impossible to drag and drop clips back and forth.
The architecture of Reaper would allow us to solve both of the problems elegantly: you could get viewed the Session View panel alone like Mixer (or as a part of it) or alongside the Arranger being able to see all the clips of a selected track, launch them and drag'n'drop back and forth to and from the arranger.

I mean Clip Launcher couldn't be just a plugin, an instrument, an FX. It's not an EQ or a Drum Sampler. It's different. It's supposed to be embedded in the architecture of Reaper.
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Old 10-15-2022, 01:52 PM   #16
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The way I see it, Clip Launcher must be fully integrated in Reaper as its integral part not as a third party plugin so that you don't have to activate sth else in respect of a specific track. I mean it's supposed to be always docked and viewed (on demand), like on the left next to a mixer track channel (or maybe integrated within it) so that every time you select another track you could see the list of all the clips of that track respectively like in Bitwig (which is better) or in Live. The problem of Live is that you could see either Session View or Arrange View, not both, and it's impossible to drag and drop clips back and forth.
The architecture of Reaper would allow us to solve both of the problems elegantly: you could get viewed the Session View panel alone like Mixer (or as a part of it) or alongside the Arranger being able to see all the clips of a selected track, launch them and drag'n'drop back and forth to and from the arranger.

I mean Clip Launcher couldn't be just a plugin, an instrument, an FX. It's not an EQ or a Drum Sampler. It's different. It's supposed to be embedded in the architecture of Reaper.
You can drop clips between session and arrange view in Ableton.

How do expect it should be implemented natively under the hood? Ther are 100s of people were saying "this should be native", "this should be in the mixer", "the ability to launch clips is what reaper lacks", "just make in like in bitwig", or just random mockup with session view screenshot cut and inserted into reaper mixer view. There aren't any single technical suggestion how it should be made/integrated into current REAPER architecture.

Some third-party REAPER extensions and scripts use the same API functions native actions use and do exactly same things. How do you distinguish what is native what is not in case you get the same result in the end?

Last edited by mpl; 10-16-2022 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 10-15-2022, 02:33 PM   #17
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[...]
THE major thing which comes into my mind why it should be native:

In Bitwig or Ableton --> If you have an audiofile in the Clip-Launcher it doesn´t mean it has to be present in the arranger-view and vice versa.

I never installed playtime --> but as I watched some videos I understood it that way, that the items/audiofiles which are inside of the Clip-Launcher (Playtime) has to be present in the Arranger-view aswell. --> So Playtime is only a UI + some Actions running over the Reaper Arranger View. These are not two independently running "environments".

But if the Clip-Launcher would be native, it would be two seperate areas to place items/audiofiles/MIDI (indipendently) --> one linear the other non-linear workspace ONLY CONNECTED BY A SYNCED PLAYTIME (no pun intended).


The independence of the two is something Reaper will not be able to do... and therfore many workflow enhancments will not come into play. Playtime might be nice if you are setting your project up for a Live-Set... but for a producer, using Playtime as writing/workflow tool, doesn´t offer the same as Bitwig or Ableton.

I saw the Psytrance Artist "Tristan" using Ableton`s ClipLauncher duirng his productions creativly in ways I never thought before. --> with those Clip Trigger actions/functions etc.... This is far from doing a Live-Set with Clips --> here it is about triggering single drums or snippets with all those differnt functions in a fast manner: next, before, random, continous trigger, round robin, play first in block etc. --> this might be possible in Playtime too, but having all those single drumhits/snippets also in the Arranger killes the mood for me personally.


BUT to be honest --> the Linear workflow (classic arranger view) is the best way to get things done (destructivly --> commit). And a Clip-launcher would just be icing on the cake to keep it tidy and here and there have it easier to get some creative variations down... or play a Live-Set.... but I don´t miss it that much. There are much more important stuff needed in Reaper than this... On the other hand: there is a reason why almost all major DAWs have it implemented --> it is a valuabale tool for Live-Sets AND writing/producing music.

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Old 10-15-2022, 08:42 PM   #18
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yeah that make sense. But still hard to imagine how to integrate ibto REAPER without touching arrange. The first alternativive come in my mind is some kind of side subproject for sketching stuff, with loopbacking aidio/midi into main project.
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Old 10-15-2022, 11:08 PM   #19
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I mean Clip Launcher couldn't be just a plugin, an instrument, an FX. It's not an EQ or a Drum Sampler. It's different. It's supposed to be embedded in the architecture of Reaper.
There are a lot more ways 3rd parties can enhance Reaper: ReaScripts, Reaper extensions and VSTs that do something completely different than your examples (such as ReaLern).
Happily Reaper is open for such things and free the dev team from supporting features they consider "non standard", while not blocking them

-Michael
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Old 10-16-2022, 12:17 AM   #20
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The first alternativive come in my mind is some kind of side subproject for sketching stuff, with loopbacking aidio/midi into main project.
Hmmm, this sounds very interessting! And in the main project there should be some UI (like Playtime) to controll, query, insert the items and play the subproject alongside the main arrangement.
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Old 10-16-2022, 01:08 AM   #21
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Something came to mind.
Would it be possible to use the track wiring for this purpose ?

I see something added to track wiring that would loop the events and then if needed record them into the timeline.
Se the attached screenshot.

Imagine each track being the main loop zone and all event from that loop zone routed to it.

Loop zone 1 can play any event from its zone in sync with events from other loop zones.

https://ibb.co/d4LjmCw
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Old 10-16-2022, 02:52 AM   #22
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Project media/fx bay has kind of clip launcher. In Media items tab you can play items both audio and midi, but it can be launched only one item simultaneously.
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Old 10-16-2022, 03:09 AM   #23
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Project media/fx bay has kind of clip launcher. In Media items tab you can play items both audio and midi, but it can be launched only one item simultaneously.
This.

Could be cool with it integrated in the Project Bay.
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Old 10-16-2022, 03:22 AM   #24
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Clip launch is great, but for 5+ years of such requests nobody suggest any adequate implementation suggestion.
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yeah that make sense. But still hard to imagine how to integrate ibto REAPER without touching arrange. The first alternativive come in my mind is some kind of side subproject for sketching stuff, with loopbacking aidio/midi into main project.
I think this could probably be a good start: temporary regions would deal with things during the playback and recording:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=245699

insights welcome!
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:32 AM   #25
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Well, clips could also be considered as children tracks (with some media) of a main track which are looped and muted and then unmuted when you wanna activate them, launch, so to speak.
Personally, i can use them (children tracks) for some sketches, trying out different MIDI takes, loops, media, FXs and other stuff etc. So it does work. Still it's a sorta workaround. And there must be a better solution in Reaper especially given the implementation of Clip launch idea in some other DAWs.
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Old 02-21-2023, 03:11 AM   #26
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Logic
Mulab
Ardour
Digital Performer
Ableton
Bitwig
Garageband
Mixcraft
Cakewalk
Roland Zenbeats
MPC 2

All have it
Please add MuLab 9 (standalone and VST) to that list.
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Old 02-21-2023, 03:14 AM   #27
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Please add MuLab 9 (standalone and VST) to that list.
You are quoting something and don't even read what you quote. Anyway how is that going to help this FR?

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Logic
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Ableton
Bitwig
Garageband
Mixcraft
Cakewalk
Roland Zenbeats
MPC 2
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:34 AM   #28
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You are quoting something and don't even read what you quote. Anyway how is that going to help this FR?
Seems that nobody cares. It's dead (FR), aren't it? )
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:35 AM   #29
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Seems that nobody cares. It's dead (FR), aren't it? )
Well FX container FR is pretty much active, but what is the difference?
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Old 02-21-2023, 07:42 PM   #30
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You are quoting something and don't even read what you quote. Anyway how is that going to help this FR?
Apologies. I overlooked it.
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Old 02-22-2023, 12:10 AM   #31
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Seems that nobody cares. It's dead (FR), aren't it? )
Of course it's dead, as there already are multiple add-ons that do provide a range of such features.
-Michael
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Old 02-22-2023, 03:05 AM   #32
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Of course this would be a great addition to Reaper - and of course there is no such thing as a dead FR.

We ain´t have any Addon wich gets near the ballpark for a feature like this. Playtime is merly a shadow of the real power of a "real" Clip-Launcher (--> secondary non-linear Arrangment-View). So it definitly makes sense to talk about the pros and cons of this feature.

I worked several years with a Clip-Launcher functioning as a drawing-board while writing my songs in the Arranger-View. A great analogy of a Clip-Launcher is that it can act like the color-pallete of a painter where he can mix and create colors (without messing with the main painting) to then only put the right/final colors on the canvas. --> in the Clip-Launcher you can easily and very fast test out and create different ideas/versions of a Item/Midi-Item (aka Clip)while keeping the arrangment clean. Also you can tuck away differnt version in the Clip-Launcher to use it as a storage bin --> non destrucive creative workflow.

A secondary (non-linear) Arrangment-View is an extremly powerful addition to the workflow --> not only for Live-Performer.
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Old 02-22-2023, 11:51 AM   #33
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Playtime is merly a shadow of the real power of a "real" Clip-Launcher
Playtime II is on its way...
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Old 02-23-2023, 04:00 AM   #34
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Playtime II is on its way...
-Michael
Oh so the "Playtime App" beside of the already shown "Clip Engine" is coming soon/is on its way?
You seem to know more --> please enlighten us what you know about it.

Because I can only see very slow development and nothing tangible yet.

The question would be how does it hold up after the release --> will the slow development continue? What if there are bugs etc. How long one has to wait for a bugfix?

REMEBER --> some people who are asking for this are earning their living with this software (Reaper+) and it isn´t only a hobby-project for them. So asking for a professional/native solution isn´t unjustifiable.

But to be honest --> Playtime 2 seems to solve many problems I had with Playtime 1. But I am waiting for it over 8 months now...

I wish I could entertain the crowd with/by "waiting for this feature" as much as I can entertain myself but unfortunatly reality works in different ways (otherwise this forum would encompass some really amazing entertainers )

Last edited by operator; 02-23-2023 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 10-02-2023, 08:00 AM   #35
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Logic
Mulab
Ardour
Digital Performer
Ableton
Bitwig
Garageband
Mixcraft
Cakewalk
Roland Zenbeats
MPC 2
FL Studio
Pro Tools

All have it
Time to Add Pro Tools to the list!
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Old 10-02-2023, 09:06 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
Because I can only see very slow development and nothing tangible yet.
If you can script, it's already available with ReaLearn, but helgoboss has mentioned "the next milestone can be expected mid to late october." He's currently working on it full-time and judging from how ReaLearn has panned out, I expect greatness! Hopefully it's not too expensive...
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Old 11-29-2023, 08:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by operator View Post
But I am waiting for it over 8 months now...
still waiting...

and anyways, I agree with your earlier sentiment. This should absolutely be native.

I noticed and someone else pointed out that Media Explorer already kind of does this. It even has some nice little speed and pitch controls, as well as it's own independent looper. If I were Reaper, I would just add some start/end points, embed it in a track (for FX, PM, and routing purposes) and call it a day!

I haven't even really used Ableton or BitWig that much, but clip launching is such an obvious feature, I would at least like to hear whether they are entertaining the idea or not.
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Old 11-30-2023, 08:06 AM   #38
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I had the privilege of trying out Playtime 2 and I can tell you that it will be worth the wait. It's well along in its development and on my system, totally stable.

Reaper team has only expressed a disinterest in such a feature.
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