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Old 12-05-2019, 03:28 PM   #1
gsagostinho
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Default Behringer X-Touch MINI in MIDI mode

Hi everyone,

I recently bought a Behringer X-Touch Mini and I am trying to control REAPER with it using its MIDI mode (not the Mackie Control Universal mode). I find the MCU mode rather limiting, even when using Klinke's MCU implementation. In MIDI mode, I am able to assign actions to both layers and this works very well for me.

The issue I have is that when I launch REAPER after just connecting the X-Touch Mini, all CC values in the MIDI controller will be set to 0. E.g., the first knob is CC1 @ channel 11 and starts at 0. If I move this knob now, it will override whatever I have got it set to control in my project. If this is set to volume, this will then make the volume slider of track 1 jump to 0. A solution is to enable soft takeover, of course, but I am looking for a different solution:

The X-Touch Mini can both send and receive MIDI data. I tested this with Pure Data: moving knob 1 will send values from CC1 @ ch11, but also sending any value between 0 and 127 from Pure Data to CC1 @ ch11 will override the state of the X-Touch Mini. So I was wondering if this is also possible in REAPER: is there a way of sending all CC values from the project to the controller at the press of a key or when REAPER launches?

Many thanks in advance.
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Old 12-09-2019, 11:18 AM   #2
themixtape
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If you are looking for feedback from your controller, I suggest The Reaper Blog's YouTube channel, and his video about midi feedback. It's a bit of an effort to set up, but it works. It's mostly for synth plugin parameters, though, from my research.



Another option you can consider is instead, using a Novation Nocturn, which gives you midi feedback using Automap... while not everyone is a fan of Automap, it does exactly what it needs to do, and you can save custom mappings, so they load as default, and everything remembers the positions depending on the active plugin... again, that's synth parameter stuff.

For volume control and transport (only), I think the Behringer X-Touch series (X-Touch, X-Touch Compact, and X-Touch One) work wonderfully... the motorized faders are great, and the position of everything is remembered, upon opening a project, depending on the bank (1-8, 9-16, 17-24, etc) you're on. Lots of options, but nothing is insanely cheap. You can also consider a used Mackie Control Universal with the Klinke script, which I used for years. Worked perfectly every time. I never used it for anything other than Transport control, and the motorized faders.

I use my X-Touch Mini as a control surface using general midi / custom actions in Reaper. One encoder is a jog wheel (left/right by measure), another is track scroll previous/next, and others are zoom horizontally, vertically, etc... buttons are transport, and additional ones like arm selected track, etc... it saves a lot of time. I don't need each encoder to be volumes as that constantly changes depending on the project, but having them as useful Reaper functions works better for my workflow.

Hope that helps!
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Last edited by themixtape; 12-09-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 01:08 PM   #3
gsagostinho
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Thank you so much for your reply, themixtape. I had come across that video but I decided to take a different route and write my own ReaScripts. It now works quite well!

If anyone is ever interested, my code can be found here: https://github.com/gilbertohasnofb/r...or-xtouch-mini

I also added my custom layers which need to be sent to the X-Touch Mini via its editor (I wanted some buttons to be true toggles, others to be regular momentary buttons). I wrote scripts to reset pan and volume, and another one which syncs any movement in the GUI using the mouse back to the X-Touch Mini. This one is initialised using the global startup action from SWS. It keeps checking the faders and GUI buttons (mute, solo, etc.) every now and then, and then syncs back with the X-Touch Mini.

My current setup is as follows:

layer A
=======

knobs: pan
pressing knobs: reset pan to centre
top row of buttons: recording arm toggles
bottom row: transport buttons, first one moves back to the beginning of project, second adds a marker to current position, the others are the same as the labels on the controller

layer B
=======
knobs: volume
pressing knobs: reset volume to 0dB
top row of buttons: solo toggles
bottom row of buttons: mute toggles

My code will only work with my custom layers and also if the X-Touch Mini device ID is set to 2 for both input and output.
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Old 12-10-2019, 02:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsagostinho View Post
Thank you so much for your reply, themixtape. I had come across that video but I decided to take a different route and write my own ReaScripts. It now works quite well!

If anyone is ever interested, my code can be found here: https://github.com/gilbertohasnofb/r...or-xtouch-mini

I also added my custom layers which need to be sent to the X-Touch Mini via its editor (I wanted some buttons to be true toggles, others to be regular momentary buttons). I wrote scripts to reset pan and volume, and another one which syncs any movement in the GUI using the mouse back to the X-Touch Mini. This one is initialised using the global startup action from SWS. It keeps checking the faders and GUI buttons (mute, solo, etc.) every now and then, and then syncs back with the X-Touch Mini.

My current setup is as follows:

layer A
=======

knobs: pan
pressing knobs: reset pan to centre
top row of buttons: recording arm toggles
bottom row: transport buttons, first one moves back to the beginning of project, second adds a marker to current position, the others are the same as the labels on the controller

layer B
=======
knobs: volume
pressing knobs: reset volume to 0dB
top row of buttons: solo toggles
bottom row of buttons: mute toggles

My code will only work with my custom layers and also if the X-Touch Mini device ID is set to 2 for both input and output.
That's awesome... does it work for more than 8 tracks, like the MCU protocol? Can it bank previous/next and/or track previous/next? Just curious, thx again!
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Old 12-13-2019, 04:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
That's awesome... does it work for more than 8 tracks, like the MCU protocol? Can it bank previous/next and/or track previous/next? Just curious, thx again!
No, this current solution works only for up to eight tracks. Does the regular MC mode work for more than 8 tracks? The issue is that with the regular MIDI mode you get one CC or Note per button/knob, and REAPER associates just one of those for each action, which are track dependent.

That said, I once wrote a patch in Pure Data that multiplied the knobs of a controller by creating an infinite number of banks. Basically, Pure Data would receive the MIDI data from the controller and then outputs it to REAPER as if Pd itself was another physical controller. But then you can do all sorts of stuff with Pd, such as routing the output of a controller's knob to any arbitrary CC value, and you can map any button to cycle through the banks, so it would be possible to do this. I might actually try this solution again, sounds like a fun little project.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:00 AM   #6
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To support more than 8 tracks you might consider using the CSI Reaper plugin.

Supposedly the "Control Surfaces" subforum is a better place to investigate this.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 06-05-2020 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:09 PM   #7
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Thanks Michael, I will take a look into that.
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Old 06-05-2020, 12:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
If you are looking for feedback from your controller, I suggest The Reaper Blog's YouTube channel, and his video about midi feedback. It's a bit of an effort to set up, but it works. It's mostly for synth plugin parameters, though, from my research.

Thanks for this video! This is exactly my use case. Don’t need transport functions or other DAW control.
I’ve been using the Xtouch Mini with soft takeover to control a couple of EQs and compressors since a year or so. It kinda works but the workflow with the soft takeover it is rather annoying - even though I am glad that at least there is that option to avoid parameter jumps.

So, to follow the approach in the video, I need to download, set-up and rely on four 3rd party pieces of software..?!
I am using Reaper since the early 2000s and I scratch my head that this basic midi control environment workflow is still not implemented in the DAW in 2020. I am not a programmer, I am not going to learn how to code scripts. I don’t want to set-up fancy stuff. Only want to use my EQs with knobs.
I will try the approach explained in the video... but pretty please... have mercy... make Reaper handling that stuff without the need of so much extra software
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venti_cappuccino View Post
basic midi control environment workflow
Basic just for you, but alien to many others. Hence we are happy that Reaper provides 3rd party extensibility allowing to implement wahtever seems "basic" for whomever.
-Michael
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:49 AM   #10
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Sooo, I spent good bits of yesterday day and night to set this up as explained in the video and the blog.
I found and installed all the tools. ReaLearn looks a bit different in the current version, as it allows to setup a MIDI input device and output device separately.
The setup went well, everything as described in the video.

But... the X-touch mini still showed parameter jumps. It reacted just as before when switching from plugin instance to another plugin or instance.

Tried a couple of different settings in ReaLearn but nothing helped.

Then I set-up a second ReaLearn instance, this time after the LBX-FaderBox plugin. I disabled the feedback in the input FX ReaLearn instance and disabled the Control functions in the second ReaLearn instance. That worked! So yes, I could set Reaper to interact with the X-touch as intended

BUT... I was now having the problem that I could not make smooth moves with the controller. It seems there was kind of a feedback conflict due to my high buffer settings (old computer plus Acustica plugins) and the resulting high latency: I turned a hardware knob and by the time the feedback was sent back to the X-touch, my actual hardware knob position was already at a different spot. So, the tracked movement was a fast back and forth between the current knob position and the fed back knob position. I could not manage to get this sorted with different settings. It was good or almost good when I turned the knobs really slowly.
With smaller buffer settings it is working good though

Well.... still far from a good user experience! Too many plugins and scripts need to run to make it happen. The action script has to be manually activated each time I open Reaper... But at least I got it to work. Just wanted to share how I got that far Or maybe Someone has an idea how to get it done in a more elegant way
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Old 06-07-2020, 08:04 AM   #11
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That is why I suggested taking a look at the CSI extension in the appropriate forum. Maybe someone already did configuration files for a decent workflow with the "Mini".

-Michael
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
That is why I suggested taking a look at the CSI extension in the appropriate forum. Maybe someone already did configuration files for a decent workflow with the "Mini".

-Michael
Vielleicht kann ich mir ja demnächst mal 1-2 Tage Urlaub nehmen, um den CSI Tread durchzulesen
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Old 06-07-2020, 02:31 PM   #13
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Da darf man durchaus fragen !
Und es gibt diverse Suchfunktionen
-Michael
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Old 03-08-2021, 01:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
If you are looking for feedback from your controller, I suggest The Reaper Blog's YouTube channel, and his video about midi feedback. It's a bit of an effort to set up, but it works. It's mostly for synth plugin parameters, though, from my research.



Another option you can consider is instead, using a Novation Nocturn, which gives you midi feedback using Automap... while not everyone is a fan of Automap, it does exactly what it needs to do, and you can save custom mappings, so they load as default, and everything remembers the positions depending on the active plugin... again, that's synth parameter stuff.

For volume control and transport (only), I think the Behringer X-Touch series (X-Touch, X-Touch Compact, and X-Touch One) work wonderfully... the motorized faders are great, and the position of everything is remembered, upon opening a project, depending on the bank (1-8, 9-16, 17-24, etc) you're on. Lots of options, but nothing is insanely cheap. You can also consider a used Mackie Control Universal with the Klinke script, which I used for years. Worked perfectly every time. I never used it for anything other than Transport control, and the motorized faders.

I use my X-Touch Mini as a control surface using general midi / custom actions in Reaper. One encoder is a jog wheel (left/right by measure), another is track scroll previous/next, and others are zoom horizontally, vertically, etc... buttons are transport, and additional ones like arm selected track, etc... it saves a lot of time. I don't need each encoder to be volumes as that constantly changes depending on the project, but having them as useful Reaper functions works better for my workflow.

Hope that helps!

Hi!
Are the encoders smooth and stable? I want to mix with them and i dont want them making little jumps up and down haha
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Old 03-09-2021, 06:20 AM   #15
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I use an X-Touch mini to control a few little things.

The encoders are fine. You cannot swap them out for Chroma Caps unless you cut a few millimeters off the bottom of the Chroma Caps, but I've been happy with these.

The editor makes them quite useful, and you have two layers at your finger tips as well.

With CSI, this could be quite powerful, though I would advise exploring the use of an OSC display to show what parameters you're currently controlling. I only use my Mini to control the dynamic range and bandwidth of Fabfilter Pro-Q3 bands with the knobs. The buttons mostly fire off Reaper commands and a few scripts.

Worth it. And it's been reliable in the past four years. A backup unit is just around 50 Euros too.
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Old 03-29-2021, 05:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by grnprplOrngyllw View Post
Hi!
Are the encoders smooth and stable? I want to mix with them and i dont want them making little jumps up and down haha

I got this set up like in the video posted above, with my newly aquired x touch mini.

It's not working for me atm, same case as you.

It still works like absolute mode.

The device is not receiving the parameter states, and the dreaded parameter jump occurs when turning the knob.

Need a fix asap!

Anyone?

edit: Realearn on it's own (without LBXsmart knobs/control track as in vid) is sending feedback, so that's better than nothing.

Last edited by dna598; 03-29-2021 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 05-02-2021, 08:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
I use an X-Touch mini to control a few little things.

The encoders are fine. You cannot swap them out for Chroma Caps unless you cut a few millimeters off the bottom of the Chroma Caps, but I've been happy with these.
Chroma Caps work on mine. I have the wide encoders and no issue. And I can get the click/push of them, as long as I don't go too deep initially. I tried with the thin encoders, too. They work, too.

They're not ideal (wish DJ Tech Tools would release "clicky" encoders)... but, they DO work.
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Old 08-21-2023, 09:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
If you are looking for feedback from your controller, I suggest The Reaper Blog's YouTube channel, and his video about midi feedback. It's a bit of an effort to set up, but it works. It's mostly for synth plugin parameters, though, from my research.



Another option you can consider is instead, using a Novation Nocturn, which gives you midi feedback using Automap... while not everyone is a fan of Automap, it does exactly what it needs to do, and you can save custom mappings, so they load as default, and everything remembers the positions depending on the active plugin... again, that's synth parameter stuff.

For volume control and transport (only), I think the Behringer X-Touch series (X-Touch, X-Touch Compact, and X-Touch One) work wonderfully... the motorized faders are great, and the position of everything is remembered, upon opening a project, depending on the bank (1-8, 9-16, 17-24, etc) you're on. Lots of options, but nothing is insanely cheap. You can also consider a used Mackie Control Universal with the Klinke script, which I used for years. Worked perfectly every time. I never used it for anything other than Transport control, and the motorized faders.

I use my X-Touch Mini as a control surface using general midi / custom actions in Reaper. One encoder is a jog wheel (left/right by measure), another is track scroll previous/next, and others are zoom horizontally, vertically, etc... buttons are transport, and additional ones like arm selected track, etc... it saves a lot of time. I don't need each encoder to be volumes as that constantly changes depending on the project, but having them as useful Reaper functions works better for my workflow.

Hope that helps!
Hoping Jon Tidey can chime in here-- any reason why this vid about Smart Knobs is private?
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