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Old 07-16-2019, 01:25 PM   #201
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Thanks for the suggestions Sju and Vagelis.

With a static input buffer, feedback would be non-trivial because it would mean that I would have to run two buffers, each with their own set of parallel grains for it to work. Would more than double the CPU cost. I'll think about it a bit more. Maybe it can be done differently.

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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Shame about the drag and drop, but are you still gonna try to do sample loading some other way? It's usually enough to have a mousewheel/arrow guided dropdown for cycling the contents of a sample folder.
Yeah, it's a real shame :/

But what you suggest is also not possible. The problem is not finding the location, the problem is that JSFX doesn't allow loading wave files outside the effects or data folders. Hopefully we get that FR granted one day. Until that day, recording it is.

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As far as the preset size, could there be an option to automatically truncate any areas of the sample outside the bounds of where the playhead actually hits with current settings? That way minimal info is stored, but presets will still sound the same.
Yeah, something like that will probably end up happening.

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I know I asked before, but I still don't get why you're not making these projects as VST plugins? I really don't think there are many developers cranking out novel and good-quality plugins at the rate you are and well...all these jsfx limitations don't bother you?
Too much non-fun hassle.

Sure some limitations bother me, and the CPU cost could be better, but the alternative is a lot more painful and not realistic (given that I have a dayjob).

With VST, every iteration of something would require a recompile. Debugging a C++ program takes ten times the time of a JSFX, especially one that might depend on outside input (need to code your own input/output for every test you do), meaning everything takes a lot more time to develop.

Much more potential for bugs when I'm handling the threading. Bugs also tend to produce much more notorious effects in non-sandboxed languages.

VSTs are not multi-platform by default unless you're using some middleware again. Writing GUIs for a VST is really painful, and usually, again, involves platform dependent code, two of which I don't regularly use (meaning bug reports that will be hard or impossible for me to locally reproduce). Also how you look for files is for instance platform dependent.

I could go on, but long story short, I'm lazy. It's a lot of non-fun additional work (unless you're willing to have no GUI, which I am not), and it's not likely that this will change any time soon. I'm keeping an eye on iPlug2 as it would be a contender for reducing a lot of these VST-related pains, but for the time being I'm going to stick with JSFX.

Think of it this way, without JSFX, these plugins would simply not exist at all.

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ookk then . I just played a bit with these monsters !!

I don't know how you coded that stereo imager ! It beats the crap out the brainworx V3 which is a 200+ dollar plugin! And the Reflectosaurus is a beast which in some pockets is way superior to the GRM space echo !
Ghehe. I don't know either of those plugins to be honest. But hope you find some use for these
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Old 07-16-2019, 02:56 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by sai'ke View Post
VSTs are not multi-platform by default unless you're using some middleware again. Writing GUIs for a VST is really painful, and usually, again, involves platform dependent code, two of which I don't regularly use (meaning bug reports that will be hard or impossible for me to locally reproduce). Also how you look for files is for instance platform dependent.
Write Linux VST only. Problem solved.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:39 PM   #203
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Think of it this way, without JSFX, these plugins would simply not exist at all.
Sold. Thanks for the explanation and everything else!

So VST3 didn't address much of these dev issues, huh? Oh well.

Also, so far looks like I'll def be using Amaranth in the future. Wanna let me fiddle with colors again?
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:12 PM   #204
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Write Linux VST only. Problem solved.
Yeaaaah...

Fwiw, If I had to pick two, it'd be Windows and Linux since I use both those platforms, even though I know half of the music people are probably on Mac.

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Sold. Thanks for the explanation and everything else!

So VST3 didn't address much of these dev issues, huh? Oh well.
Not really, but middleware helps it get closer. I mean, there's JUCE and iPlug2 as middleware for instance. I think the former allows you to deploy onto all three platforms and abstracts a fair number of things. If I ever build something big like a synth, I would have to look into middleware for performance reasons. For creative monophonic effects, I'm ok with the current performance though. It's also nice that people can easily edit the plugins if they want to

I mean, it's a legit question and switching to VST has crossed my mind several times. But yeah, it really adds a lot of dead time. I need more hours in a day D:

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Originally Posted by foxAsteria
Also, so far looks like I'll def be using Amaranth in the future. Wanna let me fiddle with colors again?
Yeah, might be fun in the future, but I want to get the thing up and running first.

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Originally Posted by Vagelis
One thing that i noticed is that when I'm changing the pitch, it also changes the speed-size of the sample. It would be nice,if there was another mode too, that would allow to change the pitch wihout changing the speed-size of the sample.
There is a little toggle next to ms now. It will make sure the number of grain samples taken scales with the number of samples for keeping the time constant when enabled.

I also added the first bit of envelope linking.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:22 PM   #205
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I need more hours in a day D:
Here's what you do: quit your boring day job and do what you want full-time!
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:59 AM   #206
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Here's what you do: quit your boring day job and do what you want full-time!
Who says my job is boring?

Also, is that an offer to pay my rent and bills I hear? : o
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:24 AM   #207
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There is a little toggle next to ms now. It will make sure the number of grain samples taken scales with the number of samples for keeping the time constant when enabled.
Awesome!! Thank you Saike it works as it should : ))

Can i suggest something else?
Normally in most granulizers the overlap and size knobs are not linked together.Theres an extra link switch that multiplies length and size parameters.
If they are not linked, the one determines the length of the grain from 1-1000ms,(short grains(1ms - 20ms)sound like "spikes") and the other determines the time(in msec)from 1-1000ms.
If the time is smaller than the Length of the grain the grains will overlap.

I 'd suggest to try this software but i think you're on Linux?
https://www.accsone.com/download-granular-synthesis

Last edited by Vagelis; 07-17-2019 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:03 AM   #208
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Also, is that an offer to pay my rent and bills I hear? : o
Hey, if I were in a position to be a benefactor to mad genius, I certainly would. Glad to hear you like your job tho, heheh.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:19 AM   #209
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The reason I linked the overlap to the grain size was because that way, I can calculate exactly how many grains I would need at maximum overlap for there to not be an insufficient number of grains. I have added options now to decouple the two, but then it's possible that you run out of grains. The reason this is not variable is performance. I may revisit it later allowing for higher grain counts, but for now, this is what it is.

I should probably add a little notification when that is occurring.

Just for the record, I did read the suggestions, but I will reply to them when I get to actually working on them or considering their impact in code

Changelog:
- Added feedback to Amaranth.
- Added option to set the distance between grains in absolute terms in Amaranth.
- Added option to set the variance between grains in absolute terms in Amaranth.
- Fixed issue with last touched parameter not being correct for Squashman when frequency cutoff was clicked.
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:40 AM   #210
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The reason I linked the overlap to the grain size was because that way, I can calculate exactly how many grains I would need at maximum overlap for there to not be an insufficient number of grains.
True, combining both gives the density.

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Originally Posted by sai'ke View Post
I have added options now to decouple the two, but then it's possible that you run out of grains. The reason this is not variable is performance. I may revisit it later allowing for higher grain counts, but for now, this is what it is.

Changelog:
- Added feedback to Amaranth.
- Added option to set the distance between grains in absolute terms in Amaranth.
- Added option to set the variance between grains in absolute terms in Amaranth.
- Fixed issue with last touched parameter not being correct for Squashman when frequency cutoff was clicked.
Thanks a lot! how do you come up wth such things so fast? Facinating
Feedback works well and the delay time changes with position
Size works well too with the new method,one thing i've noticed is that when the size and distance are turned to the left i don't hear the smallest grain size.
I hear it when the size is turned to the left and the distance is at 9 oclock.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:21 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke View Post
Changelog:
- Added feedback to Amaranth.
- Added option to set the distance between grains in absolute terms in Amaranth.
- Added option to set the variance between grains in absolute terms in Amaranth.
- Fixed issue with last touched parameter not being correct for Squashman when frequency cutoff was clicked.
Thanks for the updates! Tested the feedback, and it doesn't quite give the super mangled effect that happens in Argotlunar, so I guess it has a different implementation than simple output->input... hmm... Looking at the source code (writeFeedbackBuffer in DelayLine.cpp), there seems to be a highpass there at least.

As an aside, wouldn't it be handy if you could move the position slider by dragging on the waveform display area?

Last edited by Sju; 07-18-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:00 AM   #212
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Thanks for the updates! Tested the feedback, and it doesn't quite give the super mangled effect that happens in Argotlunar, so I guess it has a different implementation than simple output->input... hmm... Looking at the source code (writeFeedbackBuffer in DelayLine.cpp), there seems to be a highpass there at least.
True,it propably needs to clip at a higher value in order to hear the resonance, distord effect.

Here's a great lecture from the master Curtis Roads, where he's using the feedback technique with a filter at the end of the feedback chain.

You can listen to it here:

https://youtu.be/Wz46bOMb3lU?t=1059
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:38 AM   #213
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Filter in the feedback loop is actually on the to-do list. Was thinking of allowing choice between a basic SVF and my MS-20 SVF emulation, which saturates naturally without coloring much when the amplitude is low.

Currently I'm in the middle of a move though, so I won't have time to code on it for a few days.

Scrubbing play position on the waveform display is also planned.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:37 AM   #214
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Was thinking of allowing choice between a basic SVF and my MS-20 SVF emulation
Yes, please.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:46 AM   #215
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Hm, I really don't get what it is about grain modulation. How do you use it? I tested several vsts with grain modulation over the years but it never gave me a useful result or a wow-effect. Anyway. Its from Sai'ke. So it must be something good.

Greetings
Eli
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Old 07-19-2019, 08:05 AM   #216
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Hm, I really don't get what it is about grain modulation. How do you use it?
Eli
You put some sound through it and it can do fairly natural "freezing" of particular moments in the sound so that you can e.g. convert any short sound into an infinite one. It can also do other glitchy, unnatural stuff.

Basically grains are chunks of variable audio time and the effect moves them about and processes them all in a number of ways, to reconfigure it into something new, but possibly maintaining the original tonality of the source.
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:39 AM   #217
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Hey Joep!
In Reflectosaurus, could you add a way to reset pan position, please?
I was thinking ALT+double-click or ALT+CTRL click.

Cheers!
Dax.

P.S. Just started playing, this thing sounds pretty interesting! I'm still yet to work out everything that its happening on the GUI. It's a bit like finding an alien artefact! Lots of fun!
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:48 AM   #218
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Stereo manipulator is an older plugin. Look for Stereo Bub II.
This stereo bub is a fucking monster.

Love it !!

Big fan of your work saike

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Old 07-24-2019, 07:45 AM   #219
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Sorry but whats "RMB"? I am trying to add a lot of feedback to a pole so that i get a sustained delay and i am not sure if i am adding it correctly(mousewheel?)

OHH..right click + drag for feedback
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:52 AM   #220
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Still..is it possible that, even with full feedback (big circle), the delay doesnt get sustained? Looks like i am missing a bit more feedback
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:48 AM   #221
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Sorry but whats "RMB"?
Right Mouse Button
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Old 07-24-2019, 05:34 PM   #222
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No posts about Wahriffic? Did I miss them?

Thank you for this great addition, sai'ke : ) I have fun with Filter but despite having the wah filters I've been unable to get a decent wah setting out of it without it being Overloaded Violent Spaceship Crash Wah. It's me, I know.

Wahriffic answers that for me. Getting great sounds from it!
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:48 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxliniere View Post
Hey Joep!
In Reflectosaurus, could you add a way to reset pan position, please?
I was thinking ALT+double-click or ALT+CTRL click.

Cheers!
Dax.

P.S. Just started playing, this thing sounds pretty interesting! I'm still yet to work out everything that its happening on the GUI. It's a bit like finding an alien artefact! Lots of fun!
Added. Glad you're enjoying it

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Originally Posted by reapero
Still..is it possible that, even with full feedback (big circle), the delay doesnt get sustained? Looks like i am missing a bit more feedback
It doesn't quite go to one yeah. I figured situations like that would be quite esoteric. Do you need it to go to one for anything in particular?

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No posts about Wahriffic? Did I miss them?

Thank you for this great addition, sai'ke : ) I have fun with Filter but despite having the wah filters I've been unable to get a decent wah setting out of it without it being Overloaded Violent Spaceship Crash Wah. It's me, I know.

Wahriffic answers that for me. Getting great sounds from it!
Glad to hear it

Progress has been a bit slower than usual as I have moved country.
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:11 PM   #224
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Changelog Amaranth:
- Added position bar in wave view.
- Added cropping for frozen waves (to prevent preset saves from becoming huge and slow).
- Added option to not save waveform in preset (for unfrozen ones this makes sense).

Just fyi, amaranth is still in alpha stage, so presets may still be lost due to design changes. Next up are filters... maybe over the weekend.
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Old 07-28-2019, 03:11 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke View Post
Changelog Amaranth:
- Added position bar in wave view.
- Added cropping for frozen waves (to prevent preset saves from becoming huge and slow).
- Added option to not save waveform in preset (for unfrozen ones this makes sense).

Just fyi, amaranth is still in alpha stage, so presets may still be lost due to design changes. Next up are filters... maybe over the weekend.
Awesome!! I like the position bars and the crop function!
It might be better if when moving the start bar would move both start-end together with the position while the end bar would move only the bar and not the position? I think it would make it easier to move together as a loop by selecting portions of the sample.

Also a nice way to modulate the controls that i like in Reaktor except the envelopes, is when you record the movements of the parameters with the mouse. It's nice and easy way to experiment

Here's a video from Granite that uses this way of modulation too.
https://youtu.be/M2UKDwgTrrE?t=1478
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Old 07-31-2019, 12:28 PM   #226
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The recording stuff looks neat, but would come at too much overhead in JSFX. I also prefer dealing with automation by hand.

Changelog Amaranth:
- Added two modulate-able filters.
- Added dedicated feedback grain buffer for when sound is frozen (doubles CPU when in use though).
- Fixed bug that prevented storage of trigger toggle.
- Enabled buffer reset button.

Changelog Squashman/Filther
- Fixed bug that prevented storage of trigger toggle.
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Old 08-03-2019, 06:26 AM   #227
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Amaranth:
- Added modulatable pre and post-gain.
- Added filters: Voodoo, Modulatrix, Vowel, Monstro.

Edit: Also as a sort of demo for squashman, all distortion and saturation in this track was done with squashman: https://soundcloud.com/saike/draeic-mothership
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Old 08-06-2019, 12:29 AM   #228
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Quote:
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Edit: Also as a sort of demo for squashman, all distortion and saturation in this track was done with squashman: https://soundcloud.com/saike/draeic-mothership
The real sounding drums were pretty surprising after the cinematic intro. The song also reminds me of level-music for a video game, especially as I once saw a video that you are actually working on video games. Is this song for a game?

And by the way. Nice usage of your own distortion tool.
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Old 08-06-2019, 01:41 AM   #229
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Thanks a lot for the updates on Amaranth!!

It becomes better and better

I like a lot the new filters and the visual implementation of the feedback when the buffer is frozen.
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:24 AM   #230
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A question regarding Humonica:
Would it be possible to automate/Midi-trig the "Sample Audio" button in the "fixed" mode? Imagine how amazing a tempo-based or manual capture during the performance would be!
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:33 AM   #231
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I'm pretty sure humonica is geraint's plugin
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:26 AM   #232
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Added storage of reference spectra to spectral analyzer (>A and >B buttons). Note however that changing the settings after spectrum storage invalidates it as a reference (as it is not updated). Also note that reference spectra are stored in preset data if you ever want to save them.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:48 AM   #233
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I'm pretty sure humonica is geraint's plugin
hahaha yes.. and one of the best vocoders
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:39 AM   #234
sai'ke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zookthespook View Post
hahaha yes.. and one of the best vocoders
Yea! He has a ton of great ones. I use padsynth pretty frequently.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:45 AM   #235
RCJacH
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Hey Sai'ke,

I really like how your envelopes work (well and all of your jsfx), especially with the GUI and interactions. Do you mind me taking your code as reference for my own?

Also, I see all your function have instance() local() and global(), do you type them out by hand? If so, what's the purpose of writing empty ones?
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:26 AM   #236
sai'ke
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Feel free to take / use / mangle / re-release it.

Out of all those, I would say that global() is the only one that you should always consider adding even if it is empty. Because when global() is not there, you take everything from the global namespace, which usually makes code harder to reason about.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:24 AM   #237
mplay
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Thanks for sharing your work! Such useful tools and I really like how you added the visual feedback. Heel goed!
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Old Yesterday, 07:53 AM   #238
sai'ke
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Glad you like 'em
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