Boz Pan knob: I am sure it can be done in Reaper JS?

[winbe]

Hello,
I have just seen this nice little Boz Pan Knob, at $10 I could be tempted
(https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/pan-knob/)

But... I am sure this can be easily done in JS? Maybe somebody as already done this? Basically, simply only panning frequencies above a certain threshold...

Sounds really nice I must say...

Thanks,

EDIT: well, I guess I could use a simple pan utility (instead of the pan of the track), and insert something like GMonoBass (I know there are JS equivalents) and it could do the trick.

[ashcat_lt]

Or one of the frequency splitters followed by JS volume/pan on the higher channels and then mix them all together. You could do it with a couple ReaEQs also. It might be easier to create a new track and then use whatever filters you want on each.

[winbe]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Or one of the frequency splitters followed by JS volume/pan on the higher channels and then mix them all together. You could do it with a couple ReaEQs also. It might be easier to create a new track and then use whatever filters you want on each.

yes I guess that with splitters and the power of routing, we can do what we want.
I must confess I have never used the splitters. That would be cool to be able to simply add two or three fxs on a track, and to add one control on the TCP that would act exactly like the Boz

[Luster]

Also check out Pan Pot by Goodhertz!

[Jeffsounds]

There is a tutorial in the Reaper Guide showing step by step how to set this up with an acoustic guitar. Not, the panning part but splitting frequencies. I would think you could just add a panner after that and pan whatever freq's you want wherever you want them. Probably a whole lot easier to buy a $10 plug-in already made for that. I've listened to Boz's demo and it sounds interesting enough.

[bozmillar]

If you use JS: Volume/Pan Smoother v5 and then follow it up with JS: Stereo Enhancer, you will get very similar results. You just need to bring the bass width down to 0% in Stereo Enhancer.

[winbe]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

If you use JS: Volume/Pan Smoother v5 and then follow it up with JS: Stereo Enhancer, you will get very similar results. You just need to bring the bass width down to 0% in Stereo Enhancer.

Yes this is somehow what I suggested, and I am trying it currently...
but... I am surprised that you give this answer instead of trying to push your nice product that is currently on sale and, I must admit it, is really tempting

That is really very nice of you - some companies are doing the exact opposite, that is, pushing their product on forums and totally ignoring the answers or request.

I already happily use some Boz products, but here I had the feeling a native solution could do it.

[tonybeepbeep]

Originally Posted by winbe

Yes this is somehow what I suggested, and I am trying it currently...
but... I am surprised that you give this answer instead of trying to push your nice product that is currently on sale and, I must admit it, is really tempting

That is really very nice of you - some companies are doing the exact opposite, that is, pushing their product on forums and totally ignoring the answers or request.

I already happily use some Boz products, but here I had the feeling a native solution could do it.

I bought it just because.

Am very happy with Bark of Dog and I fancied experimenting with headphone mixes for 10 dollars.

I totally see your point about a native solution. The Boz width plugin is a tribute to Reaper's width knob, but I downloaded it anyway.

Stops me getting bored with the same workflow every session

[Jeffsounds]

When I use PanKnob and also pan the track in Reaper, I get an almost chorusy effect going on...

[bozmillar]

Originally Posted by winbe

but... I am surprised that you give this answer instead of trying to push your nice product that is currently on sale and, I must admit it, is really tempting

The way I see it, my job is not to tell people what they do or do not need. Sometimes the free solution is the best, given time, budget or whatever constraints may exist. If the $10 solution is worth it to someone, I'll point them to where they can get it. If it's not worth it, then I might as well show another solution.

[TheMaartian]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

The way I see it, my job is not to tell people what they do or do not need. Sometimes the free solution is the best, given time, budget or whatever constraints may exist. If the $10 solution is worth it to someone, I'll point them to where they can get it. If it's not worth it, then I might as well show another solution.

And some of us work in more than one DAW. Your Pan Knob provides a consistent solution across platforms.

You have my thanks...and my $10.

[X-Raym]

If you use JS: Volume/Pan Smoother v5 and then follow it up with JS: Stereo Enhancer, you will get very similar results. You just need to bring the bass width down to 0% in Stereo Enhancer.

WHat a nice trick, thanks for sharing !!

[Jeffsounds]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

If the $10 solution is worth it to someone, I'll point them to where they can get it. If it's not worth it, then I might as well show another solution.

It was worth it to me. Thank you!

[winbe]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

The way I see it, my job is not to tell people what they do or do not need. Sometimes the free solution is the best, given time, budget or whatever constraints may exist. If the $10 solution is worth it to someone, I'll point them to where they can get it. If it's not worth it, then I might as well show another solution.

Thanks!
Well, I just saw the new youtube video that describes how it works in detail, and this pan/balance thing is nice. And the overall thing seems to be a joy to use... so I might be tempted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13uY9H64v2Y I am discovering today that we have this balance or pan behavior, but it does not seem to be able to change it per track... so Boz Pan Knob would be very handy here!

EDIT: I am realizing I had forgotten about A1 Stereo Control as well... that can do the same "don't pan the bass frequencies" trick.

The ultra cool thing with Reaper is that whether you use JS Pan + Stereo width, Boz Pan Knob or A1 Stereo control... you can add the pan control to your track, and even make it default... which is simply excellent to me.

[fdos]

Question about this, since this has me interested as well. How did this work with Analog/Hardware world? Did the same problem not occur when they panned something hard L/R? Is this useful only for headphone mixes but for studio monitor mixes as well?

[Jae.Thomas]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

The way I see it, my job is not to tell people what they do or do not need. Sometimes the free solution is the best, given time, budget or whatever constraints may exist. If the $10 solution is worth it to someone, I'll point them to where they can get it. If it's not worth it, then I might as well show another solution.

kudos

[bozmillar]

Originally Posted by fdos

Question about this, since this has me interested as well. How did this work with Analog/Hardware world? Did the same problem not occur when they panned something hard L/R? Is this useful only for headphone mixes but for studio monitor mixes as well?

Analog panning does the same thing as digital panning. If there is any cross-talk, it's pretty much negligible. The difference between now and then is that headphones have become almost the standard for music listening, and nothing has really been done to address the fact that panning sounds incredibly unnatural in headphones. On monitors, absolute panning can sound just fine because our ears and the room takes care of the crosstalk for us.

It seems the way the industry has dealt with headphones is to say "eh, headphones don't sound right, there's nothing that can be done about people who listen on headphones." It seems like a strange demographic to ignore.

As far as this panning being useful on monitors... I think in some cases it sounds better, in other cases it makes almost no difference at all. It will be less pronounced on monitors.

[fdos]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

Analog panning does the same thing as digital panning. If there is any cross-talk, it's pretty much negligible. The difference between now and then is that headphones have become almost the standard for music listening, and nothing has really been done to address the fact that panning sounds incredibly unnatural in headphones. On monitors, absolute panning can sound just fine because our ears and the room takes care of the crosstalk for us.

It seems the way the industry has dealt with headphones is to say "eh, headphones don't sound right, there's nothing that can be done about people who listen on headphones." It seems like a strange demographic to ignore.

As far as this panning being useful on monitors... I think in some cases it sounds better, in other cases it makes almost no difference at all. It will be less pronounced on monitors.

Got it, thanks!

[X-Raym]

I made an in depth comparison of default Pan / Boz / A1 / JS / GIgahertz (mono life like preset) plugin, at 150hz.

and the results are interersting.


Default pan defitnly is the more extreme, doesn't feel extra natural on heaphones.


Boz, A1, and JS solutions sound quite similar but they don't cancel on null tests (so they are different).


Gigahertz is the one with has the more high in the sound, and somehow seems to be the more closer to how original sound was, but maybe it is just an impression,



I uploaded the rpp if other people want to test, you just have to put an item on first track and duplicate it so one is before envelope change and one is after, and then SOLO the track plugin you want to test and give feedback


Note MAnalyzer is put on all tracks so you can compare Average frequency of the sound of the two channels for each tracks.


It seems to reveal that indeed Gigahertz plugin keep more high in the sound rather than the other FX solutions. (for mixing, it is a matter of taste I suppose).

EDIT: screenshot of the different spectrogram (2 channels) for each plugins and standard Pan



We can see clear difference in sound.

[Pashkuli]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

...The difference between now and then is that headphones have become almost the standard for music listening, and nothing has really been done to address the fact that panning sounds incredibly unnatural in headphones.

It seems the way the industry has dealt with headphones is to say "eh, headphones don't sound right, there's nothing that can be done about people who listen on headphones." It seems like a strange demographic to ignore.

Boz, mate you are immensely right!
That is how I tend to mix my songs. Although I could apply the "3D" plugin (Panknob, Binaural, Ambeo Orbit, Panagmenet, FreedomAudio HRTF, DearVR, Oculus) at the Master Bus and save me from the hassle of finding the binaural space of each instrument in each track in the mix.
Similar to what dolbyhph.dll does as a DSP plugin in Foobar (the best audio player in the world).

But I really think that mixing each track (mic, instrument) is the good way to go, although will be quite demanding on the CPU after a few tracks.

Binaural is the key for mixing for headphone listeners. Of course good headphones are a must + Sonarworks Headphones correction plugin! Especially for people who can't afford acoustic treatment on their bedrooms or home studios.

There are free pseudo HRTF plugins like Ambeo Orbit, Oculus Spatializer, Anaglyph but am not so sure how do they work exactly. Seem to give plausable results anyway so... guess it is about experimentation.

Here is the link to: http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/

As I said already, even with standard mixing (on or for monitors) techniques, one can always split the final stereo mix and apply one of the above mentioned plugins in each channel L/R and pan it to taste as a binaural mix and export it as a HP-mix tagged file.

I've got Tesseract's new album which came with a separate CD mixed especially for headphone listening but wasn't so amazed with the difference from the standard stereo-CD mix.
reviews on that album: https://www.reddit.com/r/progmetal/c..._of_tesseract/

Anyway, this is a big topic and there is a special forum section here in the forum:
https://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

[bozmillar]

Originally Posted by adXok

although will be quite demanding on the CPU after a few tracks.

Yes, I made mongoose for this very purpose. I ended up making pan knob because I found there were times where I wanted different crossover frequency for different tracks.

Although I should add that Pan Knob is very light on the CPU. I tested it against other plugins that do the same thing (I won't name the names as you can test it for yourself) and it took 30 instances of pan knob to reach the CPU consumption of just one instance of a free alternative. You should be able to use this thing on ever track without worrying about CPU issues at all.

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by bozmillar

Yes, I made mongoose for this very purpose. I ended up making pan knob because I found there were times where I wanted different crossover frequency for different tracks.

Although I should add that Pan Knob is very light on the CPU. I tested it against other plugins that do the same thing (I won't name the names as you can test it for yourself) and it took 30 instances of pan knob to reach the CPU consumption of just one instance of a free alternative. You should be able to use this thing on ever track without worrying about CPU issues at all.

I bought Mongoose recently and really like it. Works well, exactly as advertised, thanks! I wandered into this thread to try and determine if Pan Knob would add anything I would truly use beyond Mongoose for low end mono + normal pan. I get it conceptually I think, just not sure if I'm ever going to be that exacting in the real world.

[X-Raym]

I made further test on the alternative solution (JS, A1StereoTool) and contrary to Boz Digital / Goodhertz solution, they do not really reduce high frequences So, Boz Pan and Goodhertz are more natual than the simple "safe bass" with 0 approach.
The difference are subtle though, but it can make the difference :P