Upward Compression?

[fieldswn]

Any tips on acheiving upward compression in REAPER?

From Wikipedia: "Upward compression involves making sounds below the threshold louder while the louder passages remain unchanged."

I understand you can get something similar with parallel compression, but it's not quite the same, since mixing in the compressed signal also boosts the transients.

Basically, I'm looking for a way to leave the transients alone, and boost the rest of the signal.

Thanks,
-Bill

[airon]

Parallel is actually the same thing, if you squash the signal in a pleasing fashion and mix that to the original signal. That's about it.

Works well with ReaComp if set up well. The Rocket from Stillwellaudio is predestined for this . They both have wet/dry sliders or knobs.

[DBMusic]

Done properly, parallel compression does not boost transients. The compressed audio has a very low threshold, thereby essentially squashing the transients. What dominates the compressed audio is the lower levels. When summed with the non-compressed audio you end up boosting the lower levels while maintaining the existing transients.

Regards,

DB

[fieldswn]

Technically, if you're adding the squashed signal back in, it will also be added to the transients, right? But, maybe it doesn't matter, since it is only a small amount relative to the energy in the original transient? (But, it is a lot relative to the quiet parts.)

-Bill

[larrygates]

Neodyminium will do that from elemental audio

An expander will do exactly what you want.

Reverse ratios will do it, waves compressor

Flux compressor bundle and solara will do it.

Any js expander or vst expander will do this

A compander will do both for you

De compression will do it (I use it on badly comped vox at tracking)

And lastly parallel comprrssion I've NEVER used for expansion (upward compression / reverse ratio)

Because it doesn't do anything to the original audio, its hard to explain what I'm saying here. NY compression adds too much body for some of todays modern sound. I mean my genres, not rock / etc . . .

[DBMusic]

Originally Posted by larrygates

NY compression adds too much body for some of todays modern sound. I mean my genres, not rock / etc . . .

Great for fattening up a drum bus. And when used subtly can add touch of body by gently bringing the lower level sounds up. But like larry says, not to be used on everything. Just tool of the craft for those things that need it.

For what the OP wants (bringing the lower level sounds up while leaving the transients intact), when used correctly, would work very well.

Regards,

DB

[yhertogh]

Originally Posted by larrygates

Neodyminium will do that from elemental audio

An expander will do exactly what you want.

Reverse ratios will do it, waves compressor

Flux compressor bundle and solara will do it.

Any js expander or vst expander will do this

A compander will do both for you

De compression will do it (I use it on badly comped vox at tracking)

And lastly parallel comprrssion I've NEVER used for expansion (upward compression / reverse ratio)

I dont quite follow you. Upward compression and Expanding are actually quite the opposite. A Dolby system uses first expansion (attenuates under a given threshold) before recording, then on playback it uses upward compression (It amplifies under a given threshold).

Yves

[IXix]

ReaXcomp let's you have ratios like 0.5:1. Is that the same thing?

[daverich]

Originally Posted by IXix

ReaXcomp let's you have ratios like 0.5:1. Is that the same thing?

No,-

From what I understand the op wants a compressor that works to expand above a certain threshold,- but then ignore everything else above another higher threshold.

There is a freebie compressor which will do that,- buggered if i can remember the name of it though sorry....

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[Mich]

Upward compression != parallel compression (with a downward compressor) != Expanding.

I moded the included JS:LSOER/UpwardExpander into a DownwardCompressor and an UpwardCompressor so hopefully all can hear the difference: http://audio.michael-gruhn.com/files...mpressor.reajs
http://audio.michael-gruhn.com/files...mpressor.reajs

[Blechi]

Just for clarification:



Does anyone know of a dynamics processor with freely configurable characteristic, so that all of the above is achievable?

[fieldswn]

Thanks all. My understanding is that upward compression (boost quiet stuff) definitely is not the same thing as expansion (attenuate quiet stuff). However, it seems there could be a subtle difference between parallel compression and upward compression in whether or not the transients are also boosted at all. I look forward to checking out Mich's JS plugs later. (Thanks!)

-Bill

[flmason]

It's getting harder to find these days, but Slim Slow Slider's expander VST (a freebie) does upward expansion.

But on my main DAW (Tracktion) it started to become strange under Vista. Projects have to be cancelled out of (clobbered with Task Manager) when I use that plug in Tracktion with Vista.

But Tracktion is known to have some problems with its "fx engine" (don't know if "fx engine" is a correct term as I don't know the Traction code base).

So it might work in Reaper. It has a side chain, so you'll have to know how to set up Reaper Channels. (I'm afraid nothing I've ever seen or used beats Tracktion for ease of signal routing, including Reaper. Hate to sound like a Fan Boy, but Tracktion's signal routing is a better design than anything else I've seen.)

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1616.html

[ThePriest]

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio..._phatt_pro.htm , it costs only 10 Euros.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by fieldswn

Any tips on acheiving upward compression in REAPER?

From Wikipedia: "Upward compression involves making sounds below the threshold louder while the louder passages remain unchanged."

I understand you can get something similar with parallel compression, but it's not quite the same, since mixing in the compressed signal also boosts the transients.

Basically, I'm looking for a way to leave the transients alone, and boost the rest of the signal.

Thanks,
-Bill

Thats typically known as expansion. There are a few plugs out there that can do it. digitalfishphones has one I believe

[Blechi]

Originally Posted by ThePriest

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio..._phatt_pro.htm , it costs only 10 Euros.

Ahh, yes, that'll do.
Thanks for the link.

[nofish]

Adding on Blechi's pics (and how I things understand):

Upward compression is not expansion.
Compression => reducing dynamic range
Expansion => increase of dynamic range

- downward compression:
traditional comp, making loud passages more quiet
- upward compression:
making soft passages louder
can be achieved with parallel compression


- upward expansion:
making loud passages louder (can be used to "un-compress" overly squashed material)
- downward expansion:
making soft passages more quiet (the mechanism noise gates are using)

[larrygates]

I dunno, I've never used the word "upward compression" before.

When I looked at it, what he wants is so similar to expansion I can't think of anything else. I didn't say just expansion, there are comps that have inverted ratios, which I'm thinking this guy wants too.

To me it kind of seems like the difference between a limiter and compressor. For the most part they achieve the same goal, and go about it almost the same way, just different "end result?"

I would think the practical application of "upward compression" would be to "de-compress" something. Which can be done with the plugs I mentioned above. Don't know of any free ones though that can.

Plus it doesn't seem that far off to me in sound. I'll have to mess around with something you guys would call an "upward compressor" and go from there. I know for sure I used a flux demo "de comp" to do EXACTLY what the OP was talking about. It was on a few vox phrases that were done with an Avalon 737 where the compressor acted too slowly and squased the vox badly. Used "upward compression" to make it sound more normal. NO?

[fieldswn]

Originally Posted by nofish

Upward compression is not expansion.
Compression => reducing dynamic range
Expansion => increase of dynamic range

- downward compression:
traditional comp, making loud passages more quiet
- upward compression:
making soft passages louder
can be achieved with parallel compression


- upward expansion:
making loud passages louder (can be used to "un-compress" overly squashed material)
- downward expansion:
making soft passages more quiet (the mechanism noise gates are using)

nofish has captured it perfectly. However, I still wonder if there is a difference between upward compression and parallel compression. In parallel compression the transients are also boosted (if only a little, relatively speaking). In real upward compression, the transients should be left alone.

-Bill

[Blechi]

Originally Posted by ThePriest

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio..._phatt_pro.htm , it costs only 10 Euros.

Downloaded - tried - bought

Man, this thing is really great.
All four characteristics, wet/dry control for easy parallel use and a 'hold' parameter.
All that for 10EUR, perfect.

[planetnine]

I had a look and bought one too, Blechi.

>

[saltydog]

Michael, thank you for the mod to make the up-comp. Is there a way to set a gain limit? It can easily hit +60db when the track has nothing happening or have I screwed up something?

[pitpat]

http://www.meldaproduction.com/freev...compressor.php

seems like you can vary the shape of compression.

[bls]

Originally Posted by pitpat

http://www.meldaproduction.com/freev...compressor.php

seems like you can vary the shape of compression.

That one's a little weird though. It's actually a linear compressor, I believe. It gives you neat control, but something that converts the compression to dB may be better.

[BeachyB]

Originally Posted by Mich

Upward compression != parallel compression (with a downward compressor) != Expanding.

I moded the included JS:LSOER/UpwardExpander into a DownwardCompressor and an UpwardCompressor so hopefully all can hear the difference: http://audio.michael-gruhn.com/files...mpressor.reajs
http://audio.michael-gruhn.com/files...mpressor.reajs

Can anyone who downloaded this while it was available re-post it somewhere such as SendSpace? Thanks.

[Seventh]

Originally Posted by BeachyB

Can anyone who downloaded this while it was available re-post it somewhere such as SendSpace? Thanks.

Yes please. Can't find a simple JS upward compressor

[Quest The Wordsmith]

Originally Posted by BeachyB

Can anyone who downloaded this while it was available re-post it somewhere such as SendSpace? Thanks.

Me three!!!

[PAPT]

In the end, what is the difference between making the quiet stuff louder or making the louder stuff quieter?

You still end up with the same dynamic range.

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by PAPT

In the end, what is the difference between making the quiet stuff louder or making the louder stuff quieter?

You still end up with the same dynamic range.

transients/attack (above the thresold) are not effected/modified by an upwards compressor or parallel compression (even less on a properly setup parallel than upwards comp.)

[planetnine]

I've always thought of parallel compression as more of an effect than processing. Normal compression can be used to dynamically process a signal and/or apply the character of a specific comp to a sound. With parallel, you hit a character comp relatively hard and then blend that in with your unprocessed (dry) sound, just as you would with a reverb.

You wouldn't use prallel compression with a non-character comp, would you?

...But there are no rules, only results.

>

c

[henge]

Originally Posted by ThePriest

http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio..._phatt_pro.htm , it costs only 10 Euros.

I can't find this on his site!

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by Mich

Upward compression != parallel compression (with a downward compressor) != Expanding.

I moded the included JS:LSOER/UpwardExpander into a DownwardCompressor and an UpwardCompressor so hopefully all can hear the difference: http://audio.michael-gruhn.com/files...mpressor.reajs
http://audio.michael-gruhn.com/files...mpressor.reajs

Necro boot, anybody still got this JS ?
I'm looking for an upward compressor.

[synkrotron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z4X8WZv33s

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by Win Conway

Necro boot, anybody still got this JS ?
I'm looking for an upward compressor.

You could use General Dynamics. It's one of my favorite plugins

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

You could use General Dynamics. It's one of my favorite plugins

Awesome, forgot about that one.
Still want the loser mod if anybody has it

[dougdi]

Waves MV2 does it very well, I love it on vocals. It just doesn’t have attack/decay settings, it's a simple GUI.

[Skorobagatko]

Great option would be the Dynamics by Kilohearts - https://youtu.be/hsr6XAwyBas

[ashcat_lt]

I wish somebody could point me to a hardware unit that supposedly does upward compression so I could maybe look at a schematic. ATM I don’t think it’s an actual thing, but rather a misunderstanding about how certain compressors actually work.