Old 07-30-2020, 06:41 PM   #1
underscore11
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Quick question. I know that it's usually recommend to have your recording levels at around -18db. I have this guitar part that was recorded way too hot at around -3db. Should this part be recorded again? Or can one simply turn down the pre-fx volume until the levels drop to about -18db?
Also how does one go about setting levels for virtual instruments? I'm using a vst drum kit and it plays way too hot reaching pretty much 0db; is it sufficient just to turn down the drum bus fader/the individual drum faders? Or is there another way to approach this?
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Old 07-30-2020, 06:59 PM   #2
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Quick question. I know that it's usually recommend to have your recording levels at around -18db. I have this guitar part that was recorded way too hot at around -3db.
The bad news is, it's not quite as simple as that.

The good news is, I don't think you need to re-record anything.

There's an interesting discussion of the subject here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=239929

As for your VST drums, it wouldn't hurt to back the fader off a bit, but if the signal isn't exceeding 0dB, it's really not something you need to worry about.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:08 PM   #3
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Quick question. I know that it's usually recommend to have your recording levels at around -18db. I have this guitar part that was recorded way too hot at around -3db. Should this part be recorded again? Or can one simply turn down the pre-fx volume until the levels drop to about -18db?
If it didn't clip, then just turn down the item gain to where you want it. /done.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:27 PM   #4
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Right! Nothing bad happens when you get "close" to 0dB. If you try to go over 0dB your analog-to-digital converter will hard-clip at exactly 0dB. After it's clipped, reducing the level won't remove the distortion.


The main reason for headroom is for unexpected peaks. It's somewhat ironic because if you don't use the headroom you didn't need it and if you use the headroom it's not actually headroom!


Digital audio has a huge dynamic range so digital recording levels just aren't that critical as long as you're not clipping. In the analog days levels were more critical and you needed to really watch your meters because you needed a hot signal to overcome tape noise, and tape can go over 0dB before it starts to soft-clip. With tape it was common to occasionally go occasionally "into the red". Now, we mainly just need to watch for clipping.


I'm not sure where the "-18dB rule" came from but it may be from the original Pro Tools which was integer based and you needed more headroom for mixing & processing. (Modern DAWs use floating point internally so you can go over 0dB temporarily while mixing without clipping.)


-18dB is OK at 24-bits but it's a little low at 16-bits. At -18dB you're "loosing" 3 bits of resolution. It's not terrible and it's less of an issue if you are mixing multiple tracks.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:51 PM   #5
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If it didn't clip, then just turn down the item gain to where you want it. /done.
@underscore11: seconded! in case you don't know where the item gain (volume control) is, if you hover your mouse over the top edge of the media item it should display a vertical double headed arrow ... click and drag down.

If you don't see the arrow, check your prefs
Options, Prefs, Appearance Media
At bottom of list is item volume control - you can choose knob or hanfle, with the default position being on top or across centre ,...
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Old 07-31-2020, 02:47 AM   #6
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^^^ also agree.
It is certainly not good to plan to record that high (-3dBFS) as you can then find you get some overloading especially on the transient peaks. Plus some (not great) analogue amps get rising levels of distortion at the higher levels.

However if is is recorded as so but is still fine as a signal there is absolutely no reason to just mix it accordingly or hold it back a bit if it is the 'final' mix.
Listen and hear!
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:45 AM   #7
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Great, thanks everyone
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:11 AM   #8
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However -18 is not a bad number to shoot for. It lets you have the usual suspects of instruments set up (bass, drums, guitar etc) with all the faders at zero before it starts to creep up and needs attending to. If you record hotter you'll have to start working the faders or dynamic effects sooner.

Not that is matters, as people have pointed out, but I find it...convenient.

The drum VST probably has a mixer section, volume slider or such. Bring that down until the drums are roughly around your intended level (e.g. -18) with the fader at zero. If not there's a small nifty JS plugin called Volume that can help with this. Or a compressor of course but that's a little different.

I guess if you're starting out it's at least important to keep some consistency. Because of that it's good to have all the channels at consistent levels when they hit the mixer. It makes no real difference where you lower the volume as long as you do it but it'll be easier on your mind if all sources come in at the same level.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:17 AM   #9
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However -18 is not a bad number to shoot for.
True, just a note for everyone that's -18 dbFS RMS and that's range is where it will likely land when running the preamp at it's nominal level - because many cards map analog zero to roughly that area for headroom purposes in digital.

IOW, if one is cranking their interface preamp to peak up near zero, there's decent chance they are running it pretty hot. It depends but that reference/mapping is to align with analog unity (thereabouts).
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:21 AM   #10
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I guess if you're starting out it's at least important to keep some consistency.
Consistency is important even when you're not just starting out, but gain staging becomes intuitive with experience. I like to run a hot desk, but I agree that keeping your levels on the low side is a good idea until you're used to managing those levels. When I started with DAWs, I was forever chasing for more headoom.
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Old 07-31-2020, 01:24 PM   #11
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Consistency is important even when you're not just starting out, but gain staging becomes intuitive with experience. I like to run a hot desk, but I agree that keeping your levels on the low side is a good idea until you're used to managing those levels. When I started with DAWs, I was forever chasing for more headoom.
Yeah. When I started out I was always confused. Constantly managing faders was distracting and trying to get my head around compression was really difficult with those varying levels. I wish I had gotten into proper gain staging earlier. I think “learn the rules then break the rules” makes some sense.
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