Old 08-17-2019, 10:54 AM   #1
Dreizehn
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Default Guitar recording doesn't line up to the grid

Hi. Please excuse me in advance if this question was already asked or if I created a thread in the wrong section of the forum.

But also I'm not a forum guy and don't know how these things work.

So. My problem is that even though I'm playing guitar on time, Reaper places the track slightly before the bar starts. That way the guitar is always out of sync with the rest of the tracks like drums, keyboard and vocals when I'm checking what I've just recorded. I can drag it manually on the grid but that's getting really tedious.

I watched a lot of tutorial on Youtube and searched on Google for a solution but without success. There is a particular video about ReaInsert and input manual offset, but even that didn't help. I'm always ahead of the click.

By the way. I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 with ASIO and my PC has a Ryzen 5 1600X CPU. The block size I'm using is 128 but I also tried 512. And I use headphones for monitoring. I also refuse to believe that monitoring with headphones is the problem. The sim I'm using for the guitar is EZMix2.

Any idea how I can get rid of that? It's really frustrating.
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:28 AM   #2
foxAsteria
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This is what the PDC option is for. Right click the arm button and turn it on.

When you play against a bit of latency you will unconsciously tend to play slightly early to compensate. PDC puts it where you heard it.

If that doesn't fix it, your device may be reporting latency incorrectly and that's what the manual offset is for. More here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzS--D765Zw
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:46 AM   #3
Dreizehn
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LOL

That's the exact video I was mentioning.

But thanks for the tip with the PDC. I didn't know about that.
I will try it and report back if it worked.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:04 AM   #4
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Okay! I tried that PDC thing out and... quite honestly, I don't know if it helped.
That is because I disabled "Use audio driver reported latency" before that.
I've set everything back to zero and started recording. And would you believe it, everything is spot on.

Then I tried disabling PDC just to see if it made a difference and it turned out, that I have to manually enable it every fucking time.
So that thing wasn't even on when I recorded.

But the really funny thing is, that every tutorial video says you should leave "Use audio driver reported latency" on.
And then it turns out, that thing was the problem all along.

Let's hope that this time it will stay this way.

Thank you though foxAsteria. I appreciate your help.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:39 AM   #5
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You need to calibrate your DAW for recording overdubs.

The system has latency. Determined by the baseline latency of the hardware audio interface + the block size you choose to run with.

You can run live sound if you have a powerful enough computer and an interface with a lower baseline latency by setting the block size to achieve a latency lower than your perception of lag.

Or...
You keep your computer latency set high and you instead monitor live inputs through a different mixing board when you overdub. Audio interfaces include a low latency built-in mixer specifically to do this.

The latency of the DAW system - weather set high or low - is still there.
That means we need to re-align any overdub with the previous recordings by nudging it back whatever that latency is. Reaper defaults to using what the audio interface driver tells it and automatically nudges back all recorded audio. But that driver supplied number might not be the complete picture. Especially if there are other digital devices in the chain that don't communicate that info.

Reaper lets you set an offset + the driver reported value or manually set the whole thing. Run a loopback test to determine the exact latency offset.


Now, if you are recording with a live through the computer setup with low latency settings... and maybe the latency isn't quite low enough to be perfect but you decide to put up with it and do that anyway. (Maybe a MIDI instrument plugin or some amp sim is important to record with.)
This gets into the hairy stuff where you can decide to record with the autopilot latency compensation to nudge recorded items back or print it without compensation so it's exactly how you heard it (with a lag) when recording. Neither of those seem like reasonable options but they're available when you don't have the computer to cut it but the show must go on.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:39 AM   #6
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Default Could any experts clarify

So,
not hijacking but to help everyone learn from this interesting question:
When tracking, I monitor through the interface (recording live guitars vocals etc with mics). Should I have to worry about calibration or any offset settings?
Generally it seems to me to work fine. I blamed things that were off on me or the player.
I have had instances where the player was playing everything early, or so it appear, but at other times he played pretty much on time. I hadn't changed any settings so I think it was just inconsistency.
I use a pretty large buffer, and anticipative effects processing so my machine can handle 40-50 tracks with fx at 96k SR with PDC on, of course.
Thanks for the clarification.
John.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreizehn View Post
Then I tried disabling PDC just to see if it made a difference and it turned out, that I have to manually enable it every fucking time.
Hmm, I'm not sure how you would get that impression. It's certainly not the case. PDC should be kept on whenever monitoring through Reaper (when you want to hear your fx) and turned off whenever monitoring directly through your interface (hearing only the dry input). If your latency is very low (buffer size under 256), it's not necessary.

But if you're getting expected behavior when turning off the driver reported latency, then it's reporting incorrectly and you might wanna try the loopback test again. Sounds like a happy coincidence that several incorrect settings seemed to balance out in the end, but whatever works.

It may not work in other scenarios, so it's worth learning to set it up properly, as that will provide the most stable results in the long term.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMusic View Post
So,
not hijacking but to help everyone learn from this interesting question:
When tracking, I monitor through the interface (recording live guitars vocals etc with mics). Should I have to worry about calibration or any offset settings?
Very much so since you would have a large offset with the high latency setting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMusic View Post
Generally it seems to me to work fine.
The driver reported latency IS usually close. Sometimes even perfect. But it's worth a look since we have the ability to calibrate the system to the sample.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:57 AM   #9
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Default testing

Thanks Serr,
Can you or anyone point to a thread or tutorial on how to check this and calibrate it if necessary? I would guess not many know how to do this.

Again in my scenario, I am monitoring through the interface, not interested in being able to monitor through reaper with low latency at this time. The way I am working is with 96k, a fair amount of plugins, recording audio and also midi, then mixing. Have a fairly high buffer setting,PDC on, anticipative effects processing on. Thanks.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:59 AM   #10
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Hello Johnny.

Our friend foxAsteria posted a link to a Youtube video in his/hers first message here that shows how to calibrate your interface.

And to the question how I got the impression that I have to turn on PDC manually every time:

I turned on PDC and recorded the guitar for the left side. Then I made a new track and recorded the right side. Checked it and everything was okay. Then I deleted the right guitar to record it again with PDC disabled so that I can confirm that it made a difference. But that's also when I realized, that PDC on the right track was disabled all along. Which is the reason why I can't confirm that PDC worked.

I made that loopback test again and it read 0 samples additional delay compensation. Before that it was 4 samples with driver reported latency enabled. And another time it was -2 Samples. So it fluctuated apparently.

I have no idea why that was. I'm just glad it's gone.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:00 PM   #11
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Hey Thanks , I'll check out the video.
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