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Old 09-27-2018, 08:46 AM   #1
Alejandro H.H.
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Cool Converting OSC messages from Iannix´s curve/triggers to retuned midi messages

Hello, is this possible?
to convert OpenSoundControl messages from Iannix´s curve/triggers to retuned midi messages?
here is the deal, im making an immersive music presentation with a special kind of piano i need, id be using pianoteq, they tell me that pianoteq accepts retuning messages *go to single note tuning change in the following link at the bottom of the page.(http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html#rusx_ts).
i need for this piano to follow the curve like in the picture attached, for this the curve will trigger each cent/microtone/note as accordingly as the curve passes through... So the direction of the signal would probably be this: iannix OSC message to midi conversion and then instantly to retune the message. thank you, do you think its possible?
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Old 09-27-2018, 01:26 PM   #2
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I understand you want a microtuned Piano, each note defined to some +/- cent value before actually adhering to the note-onmessage.

Correct ?

-Michael
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Old 09-27-2018, 03:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I understand you want a microtuned Piano, each note defined to some +/- cent value before actually adhering to the note-onmessage.

Correct ?

-Michael
yes that is correct, i think that is the only way,,, i set up iannix this way:
iannix works on a cartesian plane where each whole number on the Y dimension equals half a tone... C4 is Y=0, C#4 is Y=1, B3 is Y=-1,,, C4 plus 25 cents would be Y=1.25 etc etc
i want to use triggers(OSC discrete attacks) and curves(osc glissandi/continuous movement), iannix works with them
If i place a trigger at Y=9.89 with duration of 4 seconds, that would mean that the note im hearing is an A4 plus 89 cents of 4 seconds, similar with curves, if I place a diagonal curve from C4 to C#4 for example of one second, and if our resolution is of 100 cents per half tone, we would then listen to 100 cents/microtones triggered in a second accordingly as the curve passes through.
for this i think that the osc messages have to be converted to midi first, then retuned on the spot to the according note, is this possible? thank you.
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:26 PM   #4
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Why do you want to use OSC ? This is very unusual for controlling an instrument.

On their website they claim that iannix can output as well OSC as Midi.

When using Midi, the task supposedly would be a lot easier, by just doing JSFX programming in Reaper.

-Michael
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Old 09-28-2018, 06:27 AM   #5
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well as far as i know, curves only work with OSC, im trying to find where i read that but no luck, maybe im hallucinating or just assumed that curves where for osc, or maybe i just wanted to use osc...
but in the end curves dont output messages, only the cursors do.
can you do this programming with midi? youd be helping me out a lot. we could make a deal or work however you wish.
there is a pitch bend message in the midi section here:https://github.com/buzzinglight/Iann...rfacing-IanniX maybe that is of help
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:24 AM   #6
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As I don't have a iannix, I don't think that I can help with more than a few tips.

-Michael
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro H.H. View Post
they tell me that pianoteq accepts retuning messages *go to single note tuning change in the following link at the bottom of the page.(http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html#rusx_ts).
I did not find any hint that Pianoteq is able to adhere to the "Somascape Midi Tuning Standard" or to Midi MPE )-> https://www.midi.org/articles-old/mi...expression-mpe ) which to me seems more appropriate for single note modifications (I did not research the differences).

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 09-29-2018 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:13 PM   #8
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here -> https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=5754 (Message #5) I found:

Quote:


Pianoteq supports only the "realtime tuning" message: http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/MIDItuning.html . This is the midi message that is supported:

F0 7F id 08 02 tt ll [kk xx yy zz]x(ll) F7

The tuning is applied as an alteration of the current tuning in pianoteq so it is better to select either 'Equal temperament' in Pianoteq , or 'Flat temperament' (the difference between those two is that there is no octave stretching on the flat one).

Here is an example of a MIDI file with such messages: http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p … ngtest.mid
Nonetheless, using Pitchbend on MPE to me seems a lot more appropriate for your task, No idea if Pianoteq supports this.

-Michael
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Old 09-30-2018, 09:46 AM   #9
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pianoteq supports pitch bending, go to 3.6.1 (2010/05/20) in the change history, it implies that it has it, it also accepts scala files which need pitch bending.
"Fixed issue with multi-channel pitch-bend messages when used for microtuning purposes (with devices such as h-pi )."
(https://www.pianoteq.com/changelog)
I sent an email to the consultant, hope he can answer. everything he needs to know is in that email.
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Old 09-30-2018, 10:41 AM   #10
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"multi-channel pitch-bend messages used for microtuning purposes" sounds like exactly what is to be used for your purpose.

(As I have suggested this method) if I have half an hour spare time during the next days I'll try this with the Pianoteq demo version by simply creating a Reaper Midi Item with some Midi notes and pitch bend events.

-Michael
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:59 PM   #11
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good luck mschnell, i hope they can be controlled by curve, because placing thousands of triggers instead of a curve will be really unpractical.
curves dont output messages, only cursors and triggers in iannix.
in the simple score attached in email, if you go to the cursor´s messages you can choose to output its messages through midi, and there are several options, i think its possible to control curves through midi, there are options for that.
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:32 AM   #12
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Here a Reaper project as a proof of concept that with Pianoteq in fact MPE Midi can be used to create mictotonal composing.

-> www.schnellphoto.de/microtonal.rpp

You need to set the Pitchbend range in Pianoteq to -50 / +50. With the demo version this setting is lost when closing and needs to be done again with any start of the project.

Notes are held correctly until the appropriate note-off event is received when new (even very similar) notes are started by note-on on other channels.

Also you can use the hold pedal to hold microtonal notes as if they all had their own strings.

It seems that the Pitchbend in Pianoteq is not perfectly fine. In the example I use 8 steps per semitone (12.5 cent) but there are audible differences in the step size.

have fun !
-Michael
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:41 AM   #13
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Can you record the Midi output of iannix when creating a "curve" ?

Maybe the issue is less difficult than I initially supposed...

-Michael
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:28 AM   #14
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im unable to record anything, there isnt any sound, but in fact i get midi messages that can be used when the cursor(the cursor is like a programmable sequence bar) runs through the curve, but i dont know how to use them...
what do you recommend? would i need reaper for this? is it necessary? i think that with Mulab(the main daw i use) i would be fine.
i agree with you, maybe this is a lot easier than expected.
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:45 AM   #15
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i downloaded the pianoteq demo, when running the curve pianoteq receives continuous midi messages, but no sound. i sent an email to the pianoteq team to see if we can get some help to finally figure this out.

Last edited by Alejandro H.H.; 10-01-2018 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alejandro H.H. View Post
im unable to record anything, there isnt any sound,
I was talking about recording the Midi stream. That is easy with Reaper. If Pianoteq does see any Midi, you just need to record that track. Then you should see a Midi item.
Reaper stores the recorded Midi in it's project rpp file. If you post it somewhere I can take a look.

-Michael
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:58 AM   #17
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let me download the trial version of reaper, ill send the project to your email... there are several options in iannix though, you could send control change, send note, send bend, send program change... which one do i choose?
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Old 10-01-2018, 10:15 AM   #18
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Michael! check your email! i got sound out of the curve in reaper, i sent iannix file and reaper file, open both and press play in iannix.... i got to play 12 half tones to the octave only, no microtones,,, supposedly pianoteq accepts scala files: with scala files i could import a 1200 microtone to the octave scale and maybe that could get the curve to play microtones!
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