WIN 10 Update! - Page 2

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I know it is anecdotal, but I see almost weekly a case where Microsoft replaces a driver that works consistently on my tablet with one that is intermittent, and I know WTF I'm doing on computers, and have no strange or unusual configuration.

Doesn't happen here, I'd have to dig into the annals of my mind to remember how/why the official driver gets replaced. I know there is a check but I forget the details - I do remember that I've seen it occur because there was some known issue with said driver and it gets replaced because of that known issue - whether you are hitting it or know you are hitting it.

Be aware, I really only care about what technically occurs hence why I'm adding the info I am. Most run around with torches which is a different subject, I like understanding exactly why and what, I leave the other stuff to you guys which is fine, it just isn't my geek interest.

Glennbo · 10-01-2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Doesn't happen here, I'd have to dig into the annals of my mind to remember how/why the official driver gets replaced. I know there is a check but I forget the details - I do remember that I've seen it occur because there was some known issue with said driver and it gets replaced because of that known issue - whether you are hitting it or know you are hitting it.

Be aware, I really only care about what technically occurs hence why I'm adding the info I am. Most run around with torches which is a different subject, I like understanding exactly why and what, I leave the other stuff to you guys which is fine, it just isn't my geek interest.

It's real obvious to me what's going on. If I check for an updated driver and the Broadcom driver is in place, then Windows reports that I am already using the best driver. If OTOH I am running the Microsoft stock driver and check, it will find the Broadcom driver and install it.

The thing is though, the Broadcom driver is NOT the best driver for my totally stock Asus Transformer Tablet. The Broadcom driver will initially work, but then lose connection to the router. Then checking to see available WiFi networks to join, both my primary and guest WiFi does not even show up in the list, and that's how I know Microsoft has switched the driver on me again.

At first I would pull power from my router and it would reconnect for a while, but at some point I figured out what was really going on so now when I lose connectivity and can no longer see my router, I roll back the Microsoft driver, and my router is again visible, and I am able to connect and maintain a connection until the driver gets swapped out again. I'm thinking my next move might be to again identify the .inf file for the Broadcom driver plus the one for the Microsoft driver and then rewrite the Broadcom .inf with Microsoft's info from it's .inf file.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glennbo

It's real obvious to me what's going on. If I check for an updated driver and the Broadcom driver is in place, then Windows reports that I am already using the best driver. If OTOH I am running the Microsoft stock driver and check, it will find the Broadcom driver and install it.
.

You don't know the why but no time to go down that road as we are on different pages. FWIW, broadcom drivers I never trust anyway since the 2008 debacle. I've probably seen more broadcom issues than any other.

@Jeff: If you get the procmon let me know.

Glennbo · 10-01-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

You don't know the why but no time to go down that road as we are on different pages. FWIW, broadcom drivers I never trust anyway since the 2008 debacle. I've probably seen more broadcom issues than any other.

@Jeff: If you get the procmon let me know.

I think my point was that Windows makes assumptions, and that is part of the equation in addition to possible unusual setups or configurations.

That said, carry on with diagnosing Jeff's issue. If it were me though, I'd have done a System Restore yesterday and been making music again today.

toleolu · 10-01-2019, 11:39 AM

Jeff, is anything on your computer working like it was prior to the update? Media Player, Office apps, internet, stuff like that. Maybe start with what IS working, then go from there.

Don't know if you tried this yet, but you can roll back and/or uninstall Windows Updates in a lot of cases:

https://www.howtogeek.com/235474/how...on-windows-10/

Thing is though, you might want to research more than just this one article before trying something like this since things like this can sometimes make things worse.

Keep us posted and let me know if you're interested in trying what I suggested in the PM I sent you yesterday.

Good Luck

Jeffsounds · 10-01-2019, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

@Jeff: If you get the procmon let me know.

Sorry, Karbo! Busy day today. I'm uploading it now.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 12:43 PM

Yea, I'm busy as crap too so I'll look when I can, was it being slow when you ran it and if so, tell me what was slow... In your own words, no hurry!

Jeffsounds · 10-01-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toleolu

Jeff, is anything on your computer working like it was prior to the update? Media Player, Office apps, internet, stuff like that. Maybe start with what IS working, then go from there.

Don't know if you tried this yet, but you can roll back and/or uninstall Windows Updates in a lot of cases:

https://www.howtogeek.com/235474/how...on-windows-10/

Thing is though, you might want to research more than just this one article before trying something like this since things like this can sometimes make things worse.

Keep us posted and let me know if you're interested in trying what I suggested in the PM I sent you yesterday.

Good Luck

Thanks for the offer! I will let you know. Today is an extremely busy day for me but I'm trying to cover as much as I can. I appreciate everyone who is trying to help!!!!

It seems that everything has slowed down. Especially the Internet. My media player (AIMP3) plays ok but it takes a while to load as does pretty much everything. I'm seeing progress bars on things I've never seen progress bars before. Reaper is seriously messed up! It will play back for almost 4 seconds then stops for about 10 seconds and once it catches up it will play for another 4 seconds, loop, ad nauseum.

Karbo, PM coming!

Jeffsounds · 10-01-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Yea, I'm busy as crap too so I'll look when I can, was it being slow when you ran it and if so, tell me what was slow... In your own words, no hurry!

Yes, it was being slow when I ran it. I even ran Reaper for a bit while Procmon was running. I can click on a page and it will take anywhere from 20 to 40 seconds to load, sometimes longer. When running Reaper, it will run for about 4 seconds, stop for 10 then run again for 4 seconds. If I try to click on the stop button or hit the space bar, the screen will go white, the cursor will turn into a blue circle and after about 20 seconds or so it will start to work again but I still have to hit the stop button repeatedly to get it to stop.

ivansc · 10-01-2019, 01:15 PM

I just made another discovery that may be relevant to you, Jeff. MY new install seems to be heavily partial to Edge rather than Chrome.

I had been seriously struggling to connect to just about anything on the web via Chrome & the vids I watch on amazon prime have reverted to actually LOOKING like I am set on HD quality.
So it might be worth considering Edge if you don't already use it.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 01:26 PM

So this worries me a tiny bit and there are a few hits on the the net of "WDBackup is slowing my entire computer down including internet". I'm not ready to say this is it but it is the top hitter as far as activity on the machine goes - I'll report back tonight/tomorrow when I can look closer:

What does add up is if there was an update, I don't know if WD is freaking out trying to backup your entire machine in real time due to the update (apparently it's a real-time backup) - will know more later.

On a side note this is why I like procmon so much - this is just a small slice of what it can do. Notice the backup activity is nearly constant for PID 8108.

Jeffsounds · 10-01-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

So this worries me a tiny bit and there are a few hits on the the net of "WDBackup is slowing my entire computer down including internet". I'm not ready to say this is it but it is the top hitter as far as activity on the machine goes - I'll report back tonight/tomorrow when I can look closer:

What does add up is if there was an update, I don't know if WD is freaking out trying to backup your entire machine in real time due to the update - will know more later.

On a side note this is why I like procmon so much - this is just a small slice of what it can do. Notice the backup activity is nearly constant.

I could swear that I deleted those!!!!! I'll get rid of them and hopefully that will be that.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 01:52 PM

You "might" get away with disabling the service as a test. Start > Run > services.msc

Then look for WDBackupService, double-click, click stop then change the startup type to "Disabled".

Doc Brown · 10-01-2019, 01:54 PM

This is making me a little nervous as I'm getting set to build a new system to replace my aging i7 2600. I hear horror stories about windows 10 but it's hard to tell what's anecdotal vs real ms problems. I'm not saying Jeffsounds' update issues aren't real it's just there is a vast array of unknowns and subjective variables that are hard to quantify. I haven't had much time for Reaper or anything studio related but things have settled down and I'm getting back into the saddle and Windows 10 is making me nervous.

Jeffsounds · 10-01-2019, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

You "might" get away with disabling the service as a test. Start > Run > services.msc

Then look for WDBackupService, double-click, click stop then change the startup type to "Disabled".

Ok, the only 2 things I found related to WDBackup are WDBackup Drive Helper and WDBackup Snapshot. Neither was running but I disabled them anyway.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

Ok, the only 2 things I found related to WDBackup are WDBackup Drive Helper and WDBackup Snapshot. Neither was running but I disabled them anyway.

Sounds about right, the .exe name isn't always the same as the "service name".

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Brown

This is making me a little nervous as I'm getting set to build a new system to replace my aging i7 2600. I hear horror stories about windows 10 but it's hard to tell what's anecdotal vs real ms problems. I'm not saying Jeffsounds' update issues aren't real it's just there is a vast array of unknowns and subjective variables that are hard to quantify. I haven't had much time for Reaper or anything studio related but things have settled down and I'm getting back into the saddle and Windows 10 is making me nervous.

That's why we are looking, if it isn't Win update we are going to update the thread title accordingly - we just don't know yet.

BobbyS · 10-01-2019, 02:16 PM

Just for this reason I run a dedicated SS drive for music with Win10 on it. I do not have an internet connection on this drive so no updating. Most updates are security updates anyway.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 02:56 PM

I see a lot of read the first sentence hit reply going on.

toleolu · 10-01-2019, 03:06 PM

Jeff;

Lots of good points here, but keep things simple while you work through this.

I would try to roll back or uninstall that latest update first.

Rule of thumb on this stuff is always focus on what changed when things go bad.

If you're able to roll it back and things go back to working as before, make a clone or system image of your C: drive and try downloading and installing the update again.

I think it was Karbo who made the point about the last time you updated Windows. That's a really good point because while for the most part, Windows updates are cumulative, having a big gap between updates can be an issue, especially when it comes to critical updates that Microsoft releases to resolve recently discovered security issues. Those updates expect that all previous updates have been installed, and if they haven't then that's when things can go south.

It's really important, in spite of the potential problems, that you keep Windows and all your device drivers and applications up to date.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 03:09 PM

Let's finish what we are doing first hopefully.

toleolu · 10-01-2019, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Let's finish what we are doing first hopefully.

Yep, agree. Too many cooks in the kitchen never a good idea.

You know, his earlier post about the firewall being turned on after the update and not being able to turn it off now is kind of curious. I'm wondering if maybe something with the nic got jacked and it's hogging the bus?

Maybe keep that one in the holster for later.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 04:25 PM

My personal opinion is it just needs to be on. There is no good reason to turn off a firewall after all those years of infections and pain when there wasn't one. Takes me back to my ZoneAlert days.

toleolu · 10-01-2019, 04:32 PM

Agree with that as well.

But it is kind of interesting that he can't turn it off now, unless he's found a fix for that.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 04:34 PM

May depend on how he does it because the OS may not be able to tell if it is him or some new cryptoware that's all the rage and refuses until it can be more sure.

toleolu · 10-01-2019, 04:38 PM

Hey Karb, what do you think about a boot to Safe Mode with Networking at some point, see if that does anything as far as his slow internet goes??

Although it's not always the case, but if things seem to be working OK in Safe Mode, that generally means Windows is OK and you can start looking elsewhere for the problem.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toleolu

Hey Karb, what do you think about a boot to Safe Mode with Networking at some point, see if that does anything as far as his slow internet goes??

Although it's not always the case, but if things seem to be working OK in Safe Mode, that generally means Windows is OK and you can start looking elsewhere for the problem.

I'm on the fence as to his issue based on some info he sent that I haven't had time to digest yet. His CPU was already 50% with Reaper running so want to make sure we weren't hitting RT CPU and so on. Then curious if the backup app disablement calmed anything else down post reboot.

Jeffsounds · 10-01-2019, 10:25 PM

Ok, good news! Disabling the backup software that installed itself when I installed the external drive, gave me back my Internet speed. It is all running smoothly and quickly again. Thank you, Karbo for helping me figure that part out. I owe you one!

Bad news! Reaper is still doing the same thing. Running, stopping, running and not letting me stop it. I loaded another project and it does the same thing so it's not the project. The Real Time CPU jumps to 148.5% for some reason. Could it be a plugin? That would be the first thing that comes to mind but most of the tracks are frozen so that shouldn't really come into play, should it?

I dunno...

Gremlin- · 10-01-2019, 11:05 PM

Instead of being passive you need to be proactive, go to the update & security and look in the advanced folders and set all the settings to their minimum settings. Also the option to receive updates from other peoples computer, turn it off.
In the firewall remove all those sites that are installed in your computer.

karbomusic · 10-01-2019, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

Ok, good news! Disabling the backup software that installed itself when I installed the external drive, gave me back my Internet speed. It is all running smoothly and quickly again. Thank you, Karbo for helping me figure that part out. I owe you one!

Bad news! Reaper is still doing the same thing. Running, stopping, running and not letting me stop it. I loaded another project and it does the same thing so it's not the project. The Real Time CPU jumps to 148.5% for some reason. Could it be a plugin? That would be the first thing that comes to mind but most of the tracks are frozen so that shouldn't really come into play, should it?

I dunno...

Excellent. Were you working on this project just before the update etc.? How long has it been since this machine had been updated when it did the force update?

SmajjL · 10-01-2019, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

I owe you one!

Me two/too

I'm not surprised if you'll end up a sorted Jeff'ster.

drumphil · 10-02-2019, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Still waiting for the procmon file.

I'm curious to see if it's the cortana chewing up resources problem, that happens on systems where bing search in cortana has been disabled.

That's been the case with a few of my customers who like tweaking things, with the 1903 updates.

karbomusic · 10-02-2019, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drumphil

I'm curious to see if it's the cortana chewing up resources problem, that happens on systems where bing search in cortana has been disabled.

That's been the case with a few of my customers who like tweaking things, with the 1903 updates.

See thread 51 above - I'll check the log for cortana too when free.

Jeffsounds · 10-02-2019, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Excellent. Were you working on this project just before the update etc.? How long has it been since this machine had been updated when it did the force update?

Yes, I was and it was running fine. I just had real drums added and was in the middle of final mixdown when the update occured. Pretty hard to mix when it shuts down every four seconds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by drumphil

I'm curious to see if it's the cortana chewing up resources problem, that happens on systems where bing search in cortana has been disabled.

That's been the case with a few of my customers who like tweaking things, with the 1903 updates.

Yeah, WTF is cortana? It showed up after the last update. I got rid of it on the taskbar but is it still lurking around in the shadows?

And FYI (and for your information - **thanks, Linda!**), today some web pages take a bit to load but NOTHING like it was yesterday.

karbomusic · 10-02-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

Yes, I was and it was running fine. I just had real drums added and was in the middle of final mixdown when the update occured. Pretty hard to mix when it shuts down every four seconds...

I'll look at the procmon again when I can but reaper problem feels like a different issue - and well it remained when disabling that backup app that freed up the other problems.

I had asked about how long since the last update... in the event it had been a long time and/or you just received all spectre exploit related updates and microcode which might push a project that was close to the threshold over the threshold RT CPU wise.

Glennbo · 10-02-2019, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

Yeah, WTF is cortana?

A neural link to Microsoft for easier access to your most inner thoughts.

Jeffsounds · 10-02-2019, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I'll look at the procmon again when I can but reaper problem feels like a different issue - and well it remained when disabling that backup app that freed up the other problems.

I had asked about how long since the last update... in the event it had been a long time and/or you just received all spectre exploit related updates and microcode which might push a project that was close to the threshold over the threshold RT CPU wise.

Are you talking Reaper updates or Win 10 updates? I don't know how long it's been between Win 10 updates. Since I've had this computer, I think this is the first time the update came up. It still is odd to me that it forced the update. I had no other option. If it's Reaper, I update when the new versions are released.

karbomusic · 10-02-2019, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

Are you talking Reaper updates or Win 10 updates? I don't know how long it's been between Win 10 updates. Since I've had this computer, I think this is the first time the update came up. It still is odd to me that it forced the update. I had no other option. If it's Reaper, I update when the new versions are released.

I want to know how long since the last Win10 update - The only items I was addressing was why was it slow post update, we fixed the main one (not related to windows update at all).

There's also your mention of Reaper stalling, this is a separate issue so I'm curious how many of the Spectre exploit fixes you previously had or none, if none they could have all come down during this update and pushed some projects that were fine but close to the edge, over the edge CPU wise.

Otherwise, I'll look at the procmon again but it may not be of help unless Reaper was stalling at that time.

Jeffsounds · 10-02-2019, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

I want to know how long since the last Win10 update - The only items I was addressing was why was it slow post update, we fixed the main one (not related to windows update at all).

There's also your mention of Reaper stalling, this is a separate issue so I'm curious how many of the Spectre exploit fixes you previously had or none, if none they could have all come down during this update and pushed some projects that were fine but close to the edge, over the edge CPU wise.

Otherwise, I'll look at the procmon again but it may not be of help unless Reaper was stalling at that time.

I'm not really sure how long it's been since Win 10 updated. I remember one about a month ago but that didn't leave any ill effects.

karbomusic · 10-02-2019, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

I'm not really sure how long it's been since Win 10 updated. I remember one about a month ago but that didn't leave any ill effects.

Cool, I'll take that possibility off the table as it isn't likely relevant.