Old 01-11-2019, 03:23 AM   #1
uksnowy
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Default Adam A8X

Anyone using these? Any good? Pitfalls etc?
Considering a purchase.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:23 AM   #2
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Several other brands have stuff that give them a good run for the money.


I had a pair of 8" driver monitors for about a week & found them way too bassy for my room.
And of course your mileage WILL vary

A suggestion: if you have any pro audio dealers within visiting distance, go listen to a BUNCH of different monitors at their premises, pare the list down till you only have a couple of candidates & then see if you can audition them in your own room. Most pro places will let you buy a pair, try then & if you dont like them exchange for full refund against your alternate choice.

Be warned. I started out looking for monitors in the 500gb pounds range and ended up with a pair of Unity Audi The Rock IIs which I got a great deal on at 1700gb pounds (gulp)
They have a five inch bass driver but due to the great design they also have a great, tight but solid bottom end as well as immense detail in mid and high range.

So since your initial budget is already over a grand, make sure you listen to stuff like U.A.s, Focals Neumanns etc. as well as the usual stuff like Adams (and Eves if they are still making them)
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Old 01-11-2019, 01:37 PM   #3
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I'm sure the Adam's are fine monitors... But, I've never heard them...

I agree that it's a good idea to listen to some monitors and compare before buying, but that can be tricky. You don't want a monitor that makes the recording "sound good", you want the truth... You want accurate sound, which means flat-smooth frequency response, and of course you don't want distortion when you crank 'em up. And, the monitos will sound different in the store than in your room.

So when you compare you probably don't want to choose one that sounds "way-better" or way-different from the rest. And, make sure you are comparing at the same/similar volume. Your perception changes at different volumes (Equal Loudness Curves) and there is a tendency to hear louder as better.

As long as your monitors are "decent" and you have good reference recording you should be able to learn what a good mix sounds like on your monitors in your studio and with time you should be able to make good mixes. Every different monitor will sound different and a monitor will sound different in a different room, so it's largely a matter of learning how to mix on your particular monitors. Once you "learn your monitors", you probably won't want to "upgrade" (or change) because you'd have to re-learn how to mix on the new monitors.

I'd say 8-inches is the minimum for a woofer... Even an 8-inch woofer can't accurately reproduce the sound of a bass guitar or kick drum so if you want to "get serious" you really need a subwoofer and a measured-treated room.

But small woofers are popular in bedroom studios and I guess the idea is that it's better to mix without (hearing) deep-bass than to mix with bad-boomy bass in an untreated room. Either way an un-measured un-treated room is a compromise and a small woofer is the cheapest compromise.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:41 PM   #4
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I'd say 8-inches is the minimum for a woofer... Even an 8-inch woofer can't accurately reproduce the sound of a bass guitar or kick drum so if you want to "get serious" you really need a subwoofer and a measured-treated room.

But small woofers are popular in bedroom studios and I guess the idea is that it's better to mix without (hearing) deep-bass than to mix with bad-boomy bass in an untreated room. Either way an un-measured un-treated room is a compromise and a small woofer is the cheapest compromise.
You hit the nail on the head. I would happily use 8 inch and above for midfields, but nearfields??? FWIW my 5" Rocks reliably get down plenty far enough for everything I do, although I agree that there are styles of music out there that DO need to plumb the depths, but there again I also agree with what you say about lack of proper treatment.

I suppose we should ask the OP what sort of room he uses, is it properly treated after measurement & what STYLES of music he works on. Over to you, O.P.
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:41 AM   #5
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The only way to reliably test speakers is in your room.

Demo rooms, especially the ones like in Guitar Center where it's just a bunch of speakers on shelves with zero thought to placement or acoustics, are less than worthless.

It is worth giving them a listen, though.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:03 AM   #6
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I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for a room with great acoustic treatment.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:14 AM   #7
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I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for a room with great acoustic treatment.
I assume you meant "an adequately sized room" Phil?

My room is pretty small - 3m x 4.5m - and, although pretty well analysed & subsequently treated, would NOT do a good job of presenting music clinically with any 8" woofer-equipped speaker I have come across.
Regardless of treatment, etc., there is always a point at which the overall volume of the room itself plays a significant part.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:32 PM   #8
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I assume you meant "an adequately sized room" Phil?

My room is pretty small - 3m x 4.5m - and, although pretty well analysed & subsequently treated, would NOT do a good job of presenting music clinically with any 8" woofer-equipped speaker I have come across.
Regardless of treatment, etc., there is always a point at which the overall volume of the room itself plays a significant part.
Not what I meant, but it's Ok with me if you'd like to interpret it that way; my feelings are not hurt .
Proper and adequate bass trapping and room mode cancellation were what I was thinking of.

My last room was about that big - small rooms require a larger percentage of surface area to be covered with treatment, but it's definitely possible. And a properly treated room doesn't know how big the speaker cones are.
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:45 AM   #9
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Interesting response, Phil. Are you saying that with enough treatment, regardless of how small a room is, they will still cope with large woofer speakers well?

A thought:
I know its a bit off topic, but I hope you will be amused.
Way back in the eighties, when I lived & worked in Nashville, I was in a band that had access to some pretty cool equipment.
We had a 4 track 1" Ampex deck as well as a Studer 1/2" stereo mixdown deck, plus a pair of enormous Altec 15" main studio monitors - all in a room around 10ft by 12 ft with zero treatment!
Fortunately we only used this stuff for listening back to tapes brought home from studio or doing the odd over-dub on 4 track stuff.

I am now left wondering whatever happened to all that stuff.... I really miss having that wonderful "larger than life" sound you get from a decent pair of mains in a well treated/designed control room.
Treasure Isle comes to mind... also Woodland B. Memories......
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:43 AM   #10
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Thank you all for responding. Some good info for sure.

My room is treated reasonably well with GIK acoustics panels and traps. My room is small at about 13 m2 and a low ceiling as it is a basement. I also use Sonarworks room correction too.

I currently use KRK Rockit 5s augmented with the KRK s10 sub. The sub is too powerful for the room and hence looking to upgrade. I am looking at Adams A7x or A8x as I have read several very favourable reviews. I was just wondering if there was a forum member that could also recommend them.

However, I will look at other monitors too. My problem is that I alive miles from any serious music outlet.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by uksnowy View Post
Thank you all for responding. Some good info for sure.

My room is treated reasonably well with GIK acoustics panels and traps. My room is small at about 13 m2 and a low ceiling as it is a basement. I also use Sonarworks room correction too.

I currently use KRK Rockit 5s augmented with the KRK s10 sub. The sub is too powerful for the room and hence looking to upgrade. I am looking at Adams A7x or A8x as I have read several very favourable reviews. I was just wondering if there was a forum member that could also recommend them.

However, I will look at other monitors too. My problem is that I alive miles from any serious music outlet.
Bass in small rooms is tricky. You physically cannot fit enough treatment in one to properly control low end (at least from a mastering perspective; I've seen the same theory applied to mixing rooms as well). For what most people consider a small home studio room, you'd be filling something like 60% of the total volume of the room with bass trapping to get an even low end response.

Personally, after having tried it, I wouldn't setup a small room with fewer than 2 subs. I'm looking forward to trying 4 in my room at some point.

To be fair...I have a lot invested in treatments, and I did that first. And, GiK consulted on building the room itself. But, finally deciding to trust a combination of people on reddit and a handful of articles (like this one and a few that get more in depth into physics and math - look up schroeder frequency), I bought a couple and started playing with them and I won't go back.

They actually do excite room modes differently and end up just working better. Don't get me wrong, it can get loud in here if I turn it up, but at my preferred level, it just sounds right in a way that I haven't really heard before outside of 6-figure mains in even more expensive rooms.

The problems with the way most people do subs are that they only use one (there is no correct place to put a single subwoofer in most rooms) and a lot of budget-friendly subs don't let you set them up correctly. Most of the time, the crossovers that come with them are junk either in terms of quality or how they can be tweaked.

The absolute cheapest I'd consider is the LSR310S, just because you can completely disable its internal crossover and do it in software....which just works better IME until you're talking Trinnov money. That does require more outputs and more time tweaking, but IMHO, it's absolutely worth it.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by uksnowy View Post
Thank you all for responding. Some good info for sure.

My room is treated reasonably well with GIK acoustics panels and traps. My room is small at about 13 m2 and a low ceiling as it is a basement. I also use Sonarworks room correction too.

I currently use KRK Rockit 5s augmented with the KRK s10 sub. The sub is too powerful for the room and hence looking to upgrade. I am looking at Adams A7x or A8x as I have read several very favourable reviews. I was just wondering if there was a forum member that could also recommend them.

However, I will look at other monitors too. My problem is that I alive miles from any serious music outlet.
I'm using a pair of Adam 7X's with the corresponding subwoofer, and I'm highly satisfied. My room is 18'x11' with 11' ceilings, and I definitely get bass standing waves, even with a fair bit of treatment. But I don't think that's too easy to avoid; fortunately my monitoring position isn't in a node.
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:29 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JSMastering View Post
Bass in small rooms is tricky. You physically cannot fit enough treatment in one to properly control low end (at least from a mastering perspective; I've seen the same theory applied to mixing rooms as well). For what most people consider a small home studio room, you'd be filling something like 60% of the total volume of the room with bass trapping to get an even low end response.

Personally, after having tried it, I wouldn't setup a small room with fewer than 2 subs. I'm looking forward to trying 4 in my room at some point.

To be fair...I have a lot invested in treatments, and I did that first. And, GiK consulted on building the room itself. But, finally deciding to trust a combination of people on reddit and a handful of articles (like this one and a few that get more in depth into physics and math - look up schroeder frequency), I bought a couple and started playing with them and I won't go back.

They actually do excite room modes differently and end up just working better. Don't get me wrong, it can get loud in here if I turn it up, but at my preferred level, it just sounds right in a way that I haven't really heard before outside of 6-figure mains in even more expensive rooms.

The problems with the way most people do subs are that they only use one (there is no correct place to put a single subwoofer in most rooms) and a lot of budget-friendly subs don't let you set them up correctly. Most of the time, the crossovers that come with them are junk either in terms of quality or how they can be tweaked.

The absolute cheapest I'd consider is the LSR310S, just because you can completely disable its internal crossover and do it in software....which just works better IME until you're talking Trinnov money. That does require more outputs and more time tweaking, but IMHO, it's absolutely worth it.
What you are saying re: multiple subs is definitely true if you are doing home theatre or a commercial control room, where folks will be wandering around, but you can do quite well with a single sub if you only need reasonably flat response at the mix position.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:44 PM   #14
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Anyone using these? Any good? Pitfalls etc?
Considering a purchase.
I own the ADAM A7X because I heard and read that the bigger ones aren't as good as these!

The A7X are awesome .... I compared them to the big ones S3H one day in one room..... the later ones are THE Monitors you ever need, and the A7X came really, really close.

Keep away from the A8X I heard and got told.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:07 AM   #15
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Keep away from the A8X I heard and got told.
Why exactly?
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JSMastering View Post
Bass in small rooms is tricky. You physically cannot fit enough treatment in one to properly control low end (at least from a mastering perspective; I've seen the same theory applied to mixing rooms as well). For what most people consider a small home studio room, you'd be filling something like 60% of the total volume of the room with bass trapping to get an even low end response.

Personally, after having tried it, I wouldn't setup a small room with fewer than 2 subs. I'm looking forward to trying 4 in my room at some point.

To be fair...I have a lot invested in treatments, and I did that first. And, GiK consulted on building the room itself. But, finally deciding to trust a combination of people on reddit and a handful of articles (like this one and a few that get more in depth into physics and math - look up schroeder frequency), I bought a couple and started playing with them and I won't go back.

They actually do excite room modes differently and end up just working better. Don't get me wrong, it can get loud in here if I turn it up, but at my preferred level, it just sounds right in a way that I haven't really heard before outside of 6-figure mains in even more expensive rooms.

The problems with the way most people do subs are that they only use one (there is no correct place to put a single subwoofer in most rooms) and a lot of budget-friendly subs don't let you set them up correctly. Most of the time, the crossovers that come with them are junk either in terms of quality or how they can be tweaked.

The absolute cheapest I'd consider is the LSR310S, just because you can completely disable its internal crossover and do it in software....which just works better IME until you're talking Trinnov money. That does require more outputs and more time tweaking, but IMHO, it's absolutely worth it.
My room is a non-commercial project studio for my own use only. I have read that same article before but in all honesty I do not need more subs. I sit in one position. Although, when I do move I can hear the modes interaction. I have four of the GIK corner tri-traps I also have two of the monster traps on stands behind me. I also have spot panels behind speakers, first reflection panels and a cloud.

Interestingly, there is a studio down the road selling a pair of Adam S2,5A. I'm going to see them today. I know they are old but they cost $2000 new in the day.
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:55 AM   #17
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Why exactly?
Because they doesn't sound as balanced and good as the A7X
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:49 PM   #18
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What you are saying re: multiple subs is definitely true if you are doing home theatre or a commercial control room, where folks will be wandering around, but you can do quite well with a single sub if you only need reasonably flat response at the mix position.
That was not my experience.

Low end extension and accuracy improved dramatically. The sweet spot for low end didn't actually get much bigger, it just got better and moved to where I needed it. There was one spot low end accuracy was "as good", but it wasn't possible to get the correct stereo image and the accurate low end in the same spot until I added the second sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uksnowy View Post
My room is a non-commercial project studio for my own use only. I have read that same article before but in all honesty I do not need more subs. I sit in one position. Although, when I do move I can hear the modes interaction. I have four of the GIK corner tri-traps I also have two of the monster traps on stands behind me. I also have spot panels behind speakers, first reflection panels and a cloud.

Interestingly, there is a studio down the road selling a pair of Adam S2,5A. I'm going to see them today. I know they are old but they cost $2000 new in the day.
My setup is similar. Monsters floor to ceiling in the corners, monsters at first reflection point and cloud, more monsters and monsters w/ slats on the back wall. I don't trust much of the front wall (just at the floor) because I honestly think it sounds better (and measures better and actually passes LEDR) with a live front wall.

It still made a big difference.

But, I might also prefer the live front wall from learning to mix partially in a LEDE room. LEDE rooms suck.
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Old 01-18-2019, 04:14 AM   #19
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That was not my experience.

Low end extension and accuracy improved dramatically. The sweet spot for low end didn't actually get much bigger, it just got better and moved to where I needed it. There was one spot low end accuracy was "as good", but it wasn't possible to get the correct stereo image and the accurate low end in the same spot until I added the second sub.



My setup is similar. Monsters floor to ceiling in the corners, monsters at first reflection point and cloud, more monsters and monsters w/ slats on the back wall. I don't trust much of the front wall (just at the floor) because I honestly think it sounds better (and measures better and actually passes LEDR) with a live front wall.

It still made a big difference.

But, I might also prefer the live front wall from learning to mix partially in a LEDE room. LEDE rooms suck.
Yup on LEDE

I've got just enough mid/ high reflection treatment (1" -- good to about 1 KHz) on the front wall, a few on the sides for RFZ, and the whole drop ceiling treated with 4" with a 4" gap.

Measures and sounds just fine.

However I still can't get that big mains sound.

Monitors are medium good (they're not ATC's) - KH310, KH810 sub.

You've got me thinking of adding a KH805

Which placement did you use -- 1/2 front/back, 1/2 side, 1/4 front, etc. ?
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:19 AM   #20
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Yup on LEDE

I've got just enough mid/ high reflection treatment (1" -- good to about 1 KHz) on the front wall, a few on the sides for RFZ, and the whole drop ceiling treated with 4" with a 4" gap.

Measures and sounds just fine.

However I still can't get that big mains sound.

Monitors are medium good (they're not ATC's) - KH310, KH810 sub.

You've got me thinking of adding a KH805

Which placement did you use -- 1/2 front/back, 1/2 side, 1/4 front, etc. ?
1/4 in from sides and front for the pair. Due to the layout of the room, there were a few preferred setups I couldn't try. Stuff moved, and now I could try midwall on the front and back, which I'll do when I get a couple days free. I kind of like the 1/4-1/4 placement partially because I can turn off mono summing and hear low end phase issues differently.

When I had only one, the best I could do was with a subwoofer crawl. It looked like a random placement but wasn't. But, it also wound up interfering with the right main placement I "need" to use to put the listening position where it needs to be without re-doing everything to move to the other ideal location in the rear of the room....which would also require front wall treatment.

FWIW, I really like those Neumann speakers. They make the most impressive small nearfields I've heard.

And...mixing is different from mastering.

The KH805 is a good option. Personally, in that price range, I'd want to demo a servo sub first...I just like the idea of the technology. But, I haven't heard any in a good room.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:38 PM   #21
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1/4 in from sides and front for the pair. Due to the layout of the room, there were a few preferred setups I couldn't try. Stuff moved, and now I could try midwall on the front and back, which I'll do when I get a couple days free. I kind of like the 1/4-1/4 placement partially because I can turn off mono summing and hear low end phase issues differently.

When I had only one, the best I could do was with a subwoofer crawl. It looked like a random placement but wasn't. But, it also wound up interfering with the right main placement I "need" to use to put the listening position where it needs to be without re-doing everything to move to the other ideal location in the rear of the room....which would also require front wall treatment.

FWIW, I really like those Neumann speakers. They make the most impressive small nearfields I've heard.

And...mixing is different from mastering.

The KH805 is a good option. Personally, in that price range, I'd want to demo a servo sub first...I just like the idea of the technology. But, I haven't heard any in a good room.
Yeah, my ears liked the Neumann's (in my price range), and the KH810 is very good, but I do get the superior sonority of 2 subs, it's sort of an acoustic equivalent of a balanced line.

Uh-oh, just measured my room and 1/4 placement puts the subs almost perfectly behind the existing monitor stands that hold the KH310's.

Man, I feel a strong force pulling on my wallet

With your 1/4 placement do you run the subs stereo, or link them mono ?
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Old 01-19-2019, 02:57 AM   #22
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Yeah, my ears liked the Neumann's (in my price range), and the KH810 is very good, but I do get the superior sonority of 2 subs, it's sort of an acoustic equivalent of a balanced line.

Uh-oh, just measured my room and 1/4 placement puts the subs almost perfectly behind the existing monitor stands that hold the KH310's.

Man, I feel a strong force pulling on my wallet

With your 1/4 placement do you run the subs stereo, or link them mono ?
Both...

I use reaper to do bass management and monitor control (either part of a template or a standalone sesssion). So, it's a matter of turning on/off an effect. For the most part, mono-sum sounds right and doesn't actually screw up localization or anything. I have the option to run them stereo because it changes how low-end panning/phase issues in tracks sound.

Most of the time, there shouldn't be much (if any) sub information that isn't already mono-sum'd, so it shouldn't make a difference. But, checking that is one of the things I'm responsible for.
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Old 01-19-2019, 07:24 AM   #23
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Both...

I use reaper to do bass management and monitor control (either part of a template or a standalone sesssion). So, it's a matter of turning on/off an effect. For the most part, mono-sum sounds right and doesn't actually screw up localization or anything. I have the option to run them stereo because it changes how low-end panning/phase issues in tracks sound.

Most of the time, there shouldn't be much (if any) sub information that isn't already mono-sum'd, so it shouldn't make a difference. But, checking that is one of the things I'm responsible for.
Got it.

As far as the responsibility side of thing, yes, your nom de plume (aka username) tells all

Seems like it's a tradeoff between LMon/LSub - RMon/RSub correlation giving better spatial info, very subtle down that low, and mono sum being able to better cancel the room modes.

Thanks for all the good info.

As far as the thread hijack, sorry folks, but on the other hand, if you know more about low bass, you will be better informed in your decision on the A8X
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:15 PM   #24
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Got it.

As far as the responsibility side of thing, yes, your nom de plume (aka username) tells all

Seems like it's a tradeoff between LMon/LSub - RMon/RSub correlation giving better spatial info, very subtle down that low, and mono sum being able to better cancel the room modes.

Thanks for all the good info.

As far as the thread hijack, sorry folks, but on the other hand, if you know more about low bass, you will be better informed in your decision on the A8X
Agreed on the last point. Low-end extension isn't something I look at with mains anymore after figuring out a lot more about integrating subs. I think the A8X is a good speaker, though it wouldn't be on my personal short list (mostly from preferring Neumann for that class of speakers).

That being said, the idea that it has "too much bass" for any room is just wrong based on my experience....hence, my comments.

So, as for spatial info...not really. Obviously, there are individual differences about what the critical frequency is (typically around 60-100Hz), but people can't really locate sub-bass in rooms. Outside, yes. To a degree, if you're far enough away from a point source. But not in rooms. People tend to think they can due to higher overtones that are part of the attack of the sound. But low-bass tones themselves don't really come from a place.

So, even running the subs in mono, super-deep synth basses that are panned still come form where they're panned as long as there are overtones in the sound. If you use a near-ideal low pass filter to remove all those overtones (or just play something like a 40Hz sine wave), the sound ends up not localized even when hard panned and running stereo subs (or very good mains without subs).

The same thing happens with real sounds inside a room, though real sources of sub-bass are relatively few and far between.

The reason, mostly, is the schroeder frequency that I mentioned earlier. Below that critical frequency (defined by the geometry and absorption characteristics of the room), sub-bass doesn't "travel" the way higher sounds do. They almost exclusively modify the air pressure in the room...which doesn't come from a place.

That's also why subwoofers (or active bass traps like the PSI AVAA, which are basically subwoofers that create their signal based on listening to a mic) work better to control sub-bass. Most bass traps (even the huge ones) affect sub-bass mostly by modifying the room's schroeder frequency and not by directly controlling sub-bass.

For example, the GiK Monster Bass Trap:



It doesn't do much below about 70Hz. Which is close to where the Schroeder Frequency winds up for a decently-treated home/project-studio sized room.

The more I get into this stuff, both research and experimentation, the more I realize that the HT guys (and especially Harmon's research department) were on to something.

I'm not convinced it's possible to get good sub-bass in a small/medium room without either multiple subs or a LOT of money invested in something like a FTB room....which isn't a small room anymore.
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Old 01-21-2019, 04:08 AM   #25
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Interestingly, there is a studio down the road selling a pair of Adam S2,5A. I'm going to see them today. I know they are old but they cost $2000 new in the day.
So, I ended up buying the Adam S2.5As and installing them and they sound great. The studio where I bought them from the control room was really dead, probably a bit too dead, but I could hear the speakers in their own right beautifully. In my room, of course, they sound different due to my room. However, I can still hear the clarity and quality of the speakers. I know I have some problems in my room so I use Sonarworks room correction to flatten things out a bit. However, now the S2.5As have lost a bit of their mojo.. I think the Sonarworks works a bit too well.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:54 AM   #26
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So, I ended up buying the Adam S2.5As and installing them and they sound great. The studio where I bought them from the control room was really dead, probably a bit too dead, but I could hear the speakers in their own right beautifully. In my room, of course, they sound different due to my room. However, I can still hear the clarity and quality of the speakers. I know I have some problems in my room so I use Sonarworks room correction to flatten things out a bit. However, now the S2.5As have lost a bit of their mojo.. I think the Sonarworks works a bit too well.
Yeah, seems like EQing always eventually leads to a lifeless sound.

If you can, you are far better to move things around, measure, move things around, measure, etc., until you get the best you can physically in the room before adding EQ.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:13 AM   #27
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The more I get into this stuff, both research and experimentation, the more I realize that the HT guys (and especially Harmon's research department) were on to something.

I'm not convinced it's possible to get good sub-bass in a small/medium room without either multiple subs or a LOT of money invested in something like a FTB room....which isn't a small room anymore.
Yeah, I had the fortune of doing some computer programming for NRC (National Research Council - Canada) back in the 80's when Floyd Toole was there.

He became a big muckily muck at Harman (now retired), and has been thinking about this approach for quite a while.

Just skimmed the Welti/Devantier AES paper -- Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers, May 2006 -- very interesting.

Been playing around with the REW room sim.

First I entered my current setup, and adjusted the room absorption coefficients so the the plot approximated the actual REW measurements.

Then I started playing around with 2 and 4 subs, 2 actually gave the best results, might have to see if I can beg/borrow another sub to try this out
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:55 AM   #28
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Yeah, seems like EQing always eventually leads to a lifeless sound.

If you can, you are far better to move things around, measure, move things around, measure, etc., until you get the best you can physically in the room before adding EQ.
Yeah.. I can vary the dry/wet on the processing so I will see what that may bring. Unfortunately there is limited scope for moving things around. I have the speakers 1/4 in from side walls about 1/3 up vertical and about 30cm from face to front wall. I have GIK spot panels behind the speakers.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:38 AM   #29
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Yeah, I had the fortune of doing some computer programming for NRC (National Research Council - Canada) back in the 80's when Floyd Toole was there.

He became a big muckily muck at Harman (now retired), and has been thinking about this approach for quite a while.

Just skimmed the Welti/Devantier AES paper -- Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers, May 2006 -- very interesting.

Been playing around with the REW room sim.

First I entered my current setup, and adjusted the room absorption coefficients so the the plot approximated the actual REW measurements.

Then I started playing around with 2 and 4 subs, 2 actually gave the best results, might have to see if I can beg/borrow another sub to try this out
That's one of the papers that lead me to try it. There are also a couple build logs on gearslutz that showed progress, testing, measurements, photos, etc.. IIRC, Ethan Winer was involved in the comments and was impressed with the results. I certainly was.

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So, I ended up buying the Adam S2.5As and installing them and they sound great. The studio where I bought them from the control room was really dead, probably a bit too dead, but I could hear the speakers in their own right beautifully. In my room, of course, they sound different due to my room. However, I can still hear the clarity and quality of the speakers. I know I have some problems in my room so I use Sonarworks room correction to flatten things out a bit. However, now the S2.5As have lost a bit of their mojo.. I think the Sonarworks works a bit too well.
I own sonarworks. I'm really not a fan.

I'm convinced that there are systems that work. But, I'm not totally convinced sonarworks is one of them.

I kinda wish you could band-limit it.

Congrats on the new speakers.
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:26 AM   #30
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I own sonarworks. I'm really not a fan.

I'm convinced that there are systems that work. But, I'm not totally convinced sonarworks is one of them.

I kinda wish you could band-limit it.

Congrats on the new speakers.
Thank you. I experimented last night and I found that dialing back the wet/dry to 80% allowed enough of the Adam character to come through while maintaining a good level of correction. I think I will learn to live with it. At the end of the day, I am now sat in a reasonably treated room with great monitors. This is a big step from where I was 6 months ago.
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:52 AM   #31
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Thank you. I experimented last night and I found that dialing back the wet/dry to 80% allowed enough of the Adam character to come through while maintaining a good level of correction. I think I will learn to live with it. At the end of the day, I am now sat in a reasonably treated room with great monitors. This is a big step from where I was 6 months ago.
That's a good feeling that I know well.

I did not have luck running sonarworks in parallel either. But, it was also doing very little correction. It ended up just not being worth the pre-ringing/phasing.

I would try either trinnov or Acourate at some point, but it's not a priority. There are a lot of things I'd spend that money on first.
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