Old 08-20-2011, 11:08 AM   #1
emanresu
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Hi.

I am not a world class player and try as I might, wouldn't become one soon but job must be done.

There are 3 types of nasty sounds that bother me: nails; strings hitting frets too hard(the neck-side mic picks those up); squeaks when changing position fast.

Could you give me advice how to deal with those without going too hard on eq and sacrifice too much tone.

Thanks!
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:29 AM   #2
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You can go for manual volume-envelope adjustments.
Just pull down the parts with unwanted sound.

Playing louder is good too I think.

Myself, I find classical guitar hard to record and mix as well
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:59 AM   #3
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http://woolik.bumpclub.ee/~kunn/clas...fantaasia1.mp3

Thats clean and without eq, some reverb though. The annoying sounds are at 6-11KHz. If listened only that area, there is no notes or anything important but i guess there are important overtones - if that is reduced, then the tone has less brightness and doesn't sound natural. What to do?
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:35 PM   #4
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My feeling is you're going to have to learn to play it clean.

I couldn't play it as well as you have here, so that's not a criticism. I just can't think of a way to fix the recording that wouldn't make it sound worse.

Or, play more Mexican / Western type classical stuff and it'll add to the mood.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
http://woolik.bumpclub.ee/~kunn/clas...fantaasia1.mp3

Thats clean and without eq, some reverb though. The annoying sounds are at 6-11KHz. If listened only that area, there is no notes or anything important but i guess there are important overtones - if that is reduced, then the tone has less brightness and doesn't sound natural. What to do?
Really enjoyed listening! Lovely
(Well recorded also)

As far as I know: Top players also have this noises to a degree.

If this is first time recording, I would guess improving your playing-technique would give best results.
Else, mixing: Automated eq 6-11Khz on neck-mic could do the trick.

I wish I was as good as you playing
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:10 AM   #6
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sounds good to me -

not to be condescending, but are you using a Rest stroke much? As I'm sure you know, classical guitar tone it's mostly about right hand technique. not that i think anything is lacking, but if you want to change something, that's where' I'd start -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBQfH...eature=related -

edit: not to insult, but just looked this up and it's pretty good - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0PlECAp_cE
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:05 AM   #7
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Thanks for advices! I go practice some more and try to make it clean...er then.

I almost never use rest stroke. Only very slow places.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:16 AM   #8
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I mixed a classical solo guitar recording this year (that was recorded in a different studio). There were some definite challenges as that guitarist had a fair amount of scrape noise as well.

The hall reverb I tried first did a really nice job of obscuring the scraping; unfortunately it obscured more than just that and the guitarist didn't like the sound of reverb at all, wanted something very dry.

With careful manipulation of envelopes and EQs I was able to cover most of the really obnoxious offending noise; although it was ultimately a compromise on each fix; so the best solution, as suggested above, truly is to clean up the performance.

ETA: Ambience is your friend. Get a good supply of ambience from that session and at least then when you have to drop the signal down/out it won't sound like the record just ended/skipped.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:41 AM   #9
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You may already have done so, but did you low-pass the guitar sound before sending it to the reverb ? It seems to me that the different noises get somehow emphasized by the reverb.

Some interesting advice on the subject here, that should apply to nylon strings as well: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/maste...ng-guitar.html

Bruno
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumant View Post
You may already have done so, but did you low-pass the guitar sound before sending it to the reverb ? It seems to me that the different noises get somehow emphasized by the reverb.

Some interesting advice on the subject here, that should apply to nylon strings as well: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/maste...ng-guitar.html

Bruno
Thanks, that looks very useful thread there. I did the low-pass and damping but my playing sucks.. I found about 10 types of defects.

I listened to other peoples(better) recordings and found that they have those mistakes too, much less but still. And they are somehow masked. The 6-11 KHz is suspicious.
I listened David Russels Tarrega recording and hm. He has much more tone but the "metallic" part is almost out but sounds round and natural.
Oh.. I could of been a fine flutist.. or clarnetist. My brother tricked me into classical guitar.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:59 AM   #11
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This thread is also interesting: http://www.delcamp.us/viewtopic.php?...46205&start=15

The comment by dragonstuff about mic placement sounds good to me. How far from the guitar did you put your mikes ?

(and btw, since you mention clarinet: what dragonstuff says about the noise that makes a clarinetist while playing is absolutely true! maybe you should thank your brother :-))
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumant View Post
This thread is also interesting: http://www.delcamp.us/viewtopic.php?...46205&start=15

The comment by dragonstuff about mic placement sounds good to me. How far from the guitar did you put your mikes ?
Hm, the mics were quite close - we have a factory nearby and didn't want to get too much of that hum. This time I turned the neck-side mic as away from left hand as possible. I did the same piece again, it took 2 days and now I am kind of afraid to give it a listen. Well, I can't play any better for sure. I'll mix it tonight. Thanks for that other useful thread now .
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:15 AM   #13
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Also look into the Izotope RX plugins. I've seen magic beeing done by those on a few occasions. Check them out.
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #14
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Well it's here. http://soundcloud.com/ropptropp/fantaasia-1
Thats 2 days of practice runs with mics on. 13 gigs of useless data
I pushed the low end, cut a bit at 2K and a little from 7k. My objectivity is lost and the spineless Zoidberg has awakened, once again. If you have any suggestions for that recording then thanks in advance - I must do more of those things soon and I appreciate advices very much( except "go, sit and do one more session with that piece ").
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Old 08-23-2011, 11:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emanresu View Post
Well it's here. http://soundcloud.com/ropptropp/fantaasia-1
Thats 2 days of practice runs with mics on. 13 gigs of useless data
I pushed the low end, cut a bit at 2K and a little from 7k. My objectivity is lost and the spineless Zoidberg has awakened, once again. If you have any suggestions for that recording then thanks in advance - I must do more of those things soon and I appreciate advices very much( except "go, sit and do one more session with that piece ").
I must say I liked the first recording/mix better..
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Old 08-24-2011, 01:16 AM   #16
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If you don't want the sound of the nail, then cut them. The nails give a brighter sharper sound.

The strings slap the fretboard because you either hit them too hard or you are pulling them up, away from the fretboard and they are slapping back down.

Squeaks from changing position are a part of guitar playing.
You could try a lube, like Fret Ease. That should help.

You could try not using a mic on the fretboard.
That mic is picking up the squeaks and fret slap from a prime location.
If you recorded the 2 mics on different track you could experiment with turning it off, or down various amounts.

Any attempt to reduce these artifacts with EQ or compression or anything I can think of will do harm to the sound.

If you are the talent, try to become more talented through practice.

If you are the composer you could try to get someone else to perform the parts.

"and I appreciate advices very much( except "go, sit and do one more session with that piece ").

Unfortunately, that is the only real advice.

Or, just accept squeaks, nails and fretboard slap as being the nature of the instrument.
You will hear them in plenty of recordings.

From listening to the piece I think you are being too critical of these issues.
You're a good player and surely understand these issues.

The only one of these issues that are any concern, and it is minor, is the position change squeaks.
Get some fret ease and redo it.
You are a good enough player for this to not be a large choir.

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Old 08-24-2011, 04:00 AM   #17
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Oh, thanks for the critics. I don't think my playing gets any better. The old one is dirty but has got emotion, new one is cleaner but quite boring. The more I practiced the more it got sporty.

I'am no guitar talent unfortunately. I've seen plenty of those in festivals, thats something else. Have to accept and move on

I was lucky enough to see Aniello Desiderios masterclass. He wasn't happy with the sound of the student. He said something like.. is something wrong with your guitar? He took the students instrument and BANG! The sound was like orchestra. That was sobering.

Eh. Next piece now. Let there be more dirt
hehe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDjt-Rs13Ws

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Old 08-24-2011, 05:03 AM   #18
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Don't underestimate yourself... I guess many of us would like to play as bad as you do!

As you mention, the most important part is emotion, and squeaks and noises are really secondary topics. And in your case, you can be assured that a fresh listener will focus on the music and won't be disturbed by the noises.

One more comment on your recordings. It may come from many factors, but I find that the sound is a little bit "thin", as if your sound had too much "nail" in it, and not enough "flesh". Again, this may have nothing to do with your right hand, but if it makes sense to you, you could experiment with shorter / more polished nails to have a fuller sound. As this would definitely reduce the nails noises.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:02 AM   #19
emanresu
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I added some more pieces http://soundcloud.com/ropptropp

Also stumbled to a real silky smooth sounding recording:
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/cds/mp3s/dip01.mp3
It's like I could stretch my hand and touch the guitar..
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