Old 01-16-2012, 10:51 AM   #1
mattfaulkner
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Default Help: MIDI CC control with arrange automation curves

The subject line really says it all. I'd like to control MIDI CC1 (modwheel) not with the midi editors CC lane, which IMO is a pain to operate for smooth curves, but somehow use the awesome bezier curves of the arrange automation lanes for this. I'm sure there's some way or plugin that allows this to be set up but I'm not a very advanced user and haven't thought it out yet.

Any help much appreciated!
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #2
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ReaControlMIDI has slots for CC (and pitch and the like). So you can make a fader in ReaControlMIDI send the CC you'd like to control and automate that fader with track automation.
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Old 01-16-2012, 02:27 PM   #3
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Yes, thanks! This is an awesome feature, it makes CC editing so much easier.
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:55 PM   #4
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Would there be anything, any setting or area of the chain, that would cause a linear envelope from ReaControlMIDI to sound choppy, ramped, and stepped (i.e. not smooth at all)? I'm having major issues using this plugin and a standard envelope (CC11 in this case), but the playback is horrid and rigid.

What could I be doing wrong?

Linear curve here.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:05 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
Would there be anything, any setting or area of the chain, that would cause a linear envelope from ReaControlMIDI to sound choppy, ramped, and stepped (i.e. not smooth at all)? I'm having major issues using this plugin and a standard envelope (CC11 in this case), but the playback is horrid and rigid.
Hi lowellben, I've never used ReaControlMIDI but maybe check your CC density settings, Preferences>Editing Behavior>MIDI Editor "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes".
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:52 AM   #6
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Hi lowellben, I've never used ReaControlMIDI but maybe check your CC density settings, Preferences>Editing Behavior>MIDI Editor "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes".
Guys,

Please. This makes no sense to me. I trust I'm overlooking something stupid.

Facts:
1) Pitch Wheel on keyboard manually moved by me up and down = smooth as butter modulation. (first part of video)

2) Simply enabling a SINE wave LFO in Parameter Modulation and REAMIDIControl = Stepped ugly choppy pitch modulation. I hold one key down and do NOT touch pitch wheel. Just the key itself. The LFO is now modulating pitch. Stepped MIDI pitch changes. Bad.

Why is ReaControlMIDI stepping my modulation with a smooth sine LFO? Obviously me riding the wheel manually in real-time is smooth, why can't I automate the modulation using Reaper's built in parameter modulation to save me time and energy? These little hiccups are starting to cost me time and sanity

Please, help? How can I enable RealMIDIControl to function properly as if my hand was rocking the pitch wheel? It makes no sense why one way works fine but ReaControlMIDI is stepping my pitch values!?!

https://stash.reaper.fm/manage_file/2...DI%20AGAIN.mp4
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Old 02-19-2016, 03:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
Guys,

Please. This makes no sense to me. I trust I'm overlooking something stupid.

Facts:
1) Pitch Wheel on keyboard manually moved by me up and down = smooth as butter modulation. (first part of video)

2) Simply enabling a SINE wave LFO in Parameter Modulation and REAMIDIControl = Stepped ugly choppy pitch modulation. I hold one key down and do NOT touch pitch wheel. Just the key itself. The LFO is now modulating pitch. Stepped MIDI pitch changes. Bad.

Why is ReaControlMIDI stepping my modulation with a smooth sine LFO? Obviously me riding the wheel manually in real-time is smooth, why can't I automate the modulation using Reaper's built in parameter modulation to save me time and energy? These little hiccups are starting to cost me time and sanity

Please, help? How can I enable RealMIDIControl to function properly as if my hand was rocking the pitch wheel? It makes no sense why one way works fine but ReaControlMIDI is stepping my pitch values!?!

https://stash.reaper.fm/manage_file/2...DI%20AGAIN.mp4
The density of the actual CC events that ReaControlMIDI creates are totally dependent on your buffers in Audio>Devices "Request block size".

If you have a lower setting, 68 to 128 and even 256, then you should be getting some good density, depending on how fast you're moving your MOD wheel. But if you've got a setting above 256, then problems can start to occur. Even at 256 if you're moving the MOD Wheel fast enough.

Quote:
Hi lowellben, I've never used ReaControlMIDI but maybe check your CC density settings, Preferences>Editing Behavior>MIDI Editor "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes".
One way you can check it is to set you're "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes" at 256.

Then instead of using ReaControlMIDI, record you MOD Wheel directly into the CC1 lane in the Midi Editor.

You just might get a smoother response.
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Old 02-19-2016, 03:48 PM   #8
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The density of the actual CC events that ReaControlMIDI creates are totally dependent on your buffers in Audio>Devices "Request block size".

If you have a lower setting, 68 to 128 and even 256, then you should be getting some good density, depending on how fast you're moving your MOD wheel. But if you've got a setting above 256, then problems can start to occur. Even at 256 if you're moving the MOD Wheel fast enough.

One way you can check it is to set you're "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes" at 256.

Then instead of using ReaControlMIDI, record you MOD Wheel directly into the CC1 lane in the Midi Editor.

You just might get a smoother response.
Thanks Tod.

1) RE: Request block size
The only block size I can find is under "rendering" - where do you see it otherwise??
I had no idea this was connected to ReaControlMIDI. Should I get used to setting it high (256) only when using the ReaControlMIDI plugin and then set it back lower when not? What's the danger of having a high value for this block size otherwise?

2) Yes, I know now (thanks to you earlier) that I can adjust the CC lane density which is awesome, but let's assume for this that I would prefer to use ReaControlMIDI for this situation(s). Let's assume I don't want (overkill) for "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes" at 256. Ok? Assuming I like a smaller value for everyday work, is there a compromise where I could leave THIS CC lane value lower than 256 and ONLY address this ReaControlMIDI issue with the block size? If so, where do you think the best balance is?

Finally, did you listen to my video? Did you hear how insanely stepped a simple pitch wheel was? ( I mean, manually doing it was smooth, but yet a MIDI plugin made it stepped? It doesnt make sense to me, why would one be better than the other? It's the same data, no?
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Old 02-19-2016, 04:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
1) RE: Request block size
The only block size I can find is under "rendering" - where do you see it otherwise??
I had no idea this was connected to ReaControlMIDI. Should I get used to setting it high (256) only when using the ReaControlMIDI plugin and then set it back lower when not? What's the danger of having a high value for this block size otherwise?
Oops I think you've got what I said turned around.

It's in References>Audio,Devices, the lower this setting the more density you get with ReaControlMIDI. Can you get by with a setting of 64, which is low and that's good?

Quote:
2) Yes, I know now (thanks to you earlier) that I can adjust the CC lane density which is awesome, but let's assume for this that I would prefer to use ReaControlMIDI for this situation(s). Let's assume I don't want (overkill) for "Events per quarter note when drawing in CC lanes" at 256. Ok? Assuming I like a smaller value for everyday work, is there a compromise where I could leave THIS CC lane value lower than 256 and ONLY address this ReaControlMIDI issue with the block size? If so, where do you think the best balance is?
Well you'll get your best ReaControlMIDI controller performance with the lower settings, like 64. But to use these lower settings you have to have a pretty fast computer. The performance of the buffer setting will totally depend on the speed of your computer.

Quote:
Finally, did you listen to my video? Did you hear how insanely stepped a simple pitch wheel was? ( I mean, manually doing it was smooth, but yet a MIDI plugin made it stepped?
Actually your link took me to "The latest themes", so no, I didn't get a chance to here what your taking about.

Quote:
It doesnt make sense to me, why would one be better than the other? It's the same data, no?
Like I've been trying to say, ReaControlMIDI and CC lanes are completely different in the way they are implemented.
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Old 02-19-2016, 04:31 PM   #10
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Tod,

This stash link doesn't work?
https://stash.reaper.fm/26738/Stepped...DI%20AGAIN.mp4

it should let you download a small video file

(Thanks for putting up with my thick brain sometimes!)
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Old 02-19-2016, 04:38 PM   #11
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Tod,

This stash link doesn't work?
https://stash.reaper.fm/26738/Stepped...DI%20AGAIN.mp4

it should let you download a small video file

(Thanks for putting up with my thick brain sometimes!)
Heh heh, it's very easy to be confused with all this stuff.

I found a picture I made that shows how ReaControlMIDI works with the different buffer settings.

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Old 02-19-2016, 04:41 PM   #12
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Heh heh, it's very easy to be confused with all this stuff.

I found a picture I made that shows how ReaControlMIDI works with the different buffer settings.
Tod, this is perfect visual aids wow. Thank you so so much. I really had no idea THAT much resolution is impacted by that block size? Are you saying "buffer" and block size are one in the same, for your photos right? If so, then yes I follow you!

Check out my settings ;p

(hey did my second video link work no??)

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Old 02-19-2016, 05:05 PM   #13
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Tod, this is perfect visual aids wow. Thank you so so much. I really had no idea THAT much resolution is impacted by that block size? Are you saying "buffer" and block size are one in the same, for your photos right? If so, then yes I follow you!
Well, yes, they are the same.

Quote:
Check out my settings ;p

(hey did my second video link work no??)

Yes, I DLed your video and the 2nd part clearly shows a stair stepped audio. I'm not sure why you're getting it with your buffer set to 128? I can clearly tell you're not moving the MOD Wheel real fast so it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe your computer is not up to the task?

Do you mind giving your comp specs?
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Old 02-19-2016, 05:51 PM   #14
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Well, yes, they are the same.



Yes, I DLed your video and the 2nd part clearly shows a stair stepped audio. I'm not sure why you're getting it with your buffer set to 128? I can clearly tell you're not moving the MOD Wheel real fast so it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe your computer is not up to the task?

Do you mind giving your comp specs?
i7 8GB RAM custom build 1 SSD + 4TB HDD
Pretty solid beast. Thank you for agreeing with my assessment at least! I'm sure it was a fluke. Weird.

Maybe it defaulted to my onboard non-ASIO driver? Isn't my stepped issue consistent with say, crappy onboard DS or Windows Audio onboard motherboard? I bet that's it! Maybe it switched my audio interface from USB to onboard (on accident somewhere along the way!)

Right? Hypotheteically, if someone used a crappy onboard Windows MME or whatever with a high high buffer, wouldnt that produce stepped garbage! ;0 not sure if or how that maybe happened to me but that could be it!
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:02 AM   #15
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Hi,

Just a wild shot Lowell Ben...is reacontrol midi channel set to All in midi box?
It is by default, and on the ext midi side causes havoc.

Guido
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:11 AM   #16
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Are you sure your audio device is following the block size request? Not all do.


What does the "audio device information" in the top right corner of the menu bar say?
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:37 AM   #17
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Are you sure your audio device is following the block size request? Not all do.


What does the "audio device information" in the top right corner of the menu bar say?
Or just click that ASIO button right there to open whatever utility is installed for your interface and set the buffer there, which really is the right place to do it. Then uncheck that "request" box.
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:47 AM   #18
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Or just click that ASIO button right there to open whatever utility is installed for your interface and set the buffer there, which really is the right place to do it. Then uncheck that "request" box.
Buffer on any ASIO interface is the same as Reaper's block size? Seriously? Then why have the two different names? Block and buffer.
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:48 AM   #19
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Buffer=block. If it really irks you, you can rename it using a language pack.
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Old 02-20-2016, 10:49 AM   #20
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Buffer on any ASIO interface is the same as Reaper's block size?
Same.
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Old 02-20-2016, 11:18 AM   #21
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Buffer=block. If it really irks you, you can rename it using a language pack.
haha got it thanks man
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:24 PM   #22
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haha got it thanks man
Did you get this figured out lowellben?
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Old 02-20-2016, 07:00 PM   #23
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Did you get this figured out lowellben?
Yes. Bizarre, but Reaper seems to have switched my soundcard to onboard MME Direct Sound or something. I hadn't noticed so when I was MIDI-ing, that's why the stepped sounds were happening. I switched back to my ASIO, with 128 as blocks and ReaControlMIDI is smooooooooooth as butter. Pitch LFO modulation beautiful. So strange, no? Like, the bigger issue now is how that sound card switch happened MID project?! I didn't do it.

Tod I think you deserve an award.

A combination "putting up with slow thick people" and "overall essential personnel at helping everyone with Reaper issues"
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