Old 05-06-2014, 02:11 PM   #1
pixeltarian
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Default Live sound guys... this is prettty awesome (digital mixer)

Check out this digital mixer:
http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/...digital-mixers

Software demo:
http://www.smproaudio.com/umixweb/

The web software runs on HTML5. Holy. Crap.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:09 PM   #2
Andy Hamm
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I use Reaper for that.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:49 PM   #3
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Looks pretty swanky IMO
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hamm View Post
I use Reaper for that.
Please tell me how you use reaper to control hardware gain. You very well could/would use reaper in conjunction with this. I'm not sure you realize what you're looking at.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:24 PM   #5
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You mean preamp gain? It's at the stage and there is no remote for it, I set them during sound check and I usually don't touch them after that, if I want more gain I can get it out of the output of ReaEQ or the comp, but if for some reason I suddenly have too much it's either clear coms to someone on stage or I'm taking the walk myself.

I did start working on a fix for this a while back, where I started replacing pots on one of my preamps with digitally controlled resistors that were controlled by an Arduino, but time got scarce and it's not something that I can't live without.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:51 PM   #6
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These are really old pics (2011/2012), I'm not a big picture taker:



The case on the top with the Pro Mix (control Surface) is FOH. I have a few different set ups, this is just one of them. It's the same combo, a control surface and a laptop with a wireless or ethernet link to the mix rack on the stage. This is MR-1 and FOH-1, I have 4 complete rigs that can be combined together, used separately or just stay on the truck for backup.




This is MR-2 on top of MR-1. This is my standard 48 channel set up, but again - old pic. Each rack could do 48 channels individually (with 2 2408's in each rack) but I run everything at half capacity for safety's sake. Each rack also has 24 outputs (12 Stereo Outs) plus the additional 8 analog ins and outs on the 2nd 2408, making them both 32 ins and outs, but it really doesn't matter - it's modular so I can just bring as much as I need.
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File Type: jpg mix racks.jpg (54.7 KB, 1231 views)
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Old 05-19-2014, 08:24 PM   #7
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That uMix system is interesting.

I would suggest looking at the Behringer X18 if you want something like that. It's not quite the same, but similar. And perhaps a bit cheaper.

Personally I covet a rack-mounted X32, but that is going up a bit.

Now if they just made a X24...
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:39 AM   #8
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Maybe a stupid question, but...

Do digital mixers have latency ? (because of AD/DA conversion, DSP processing)
If so, how much ?
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Maybe a stupid question, but...

Do digital mixers have latency ? (because of AD/DA conversion, DSP processing)
If so, how much ?
Yes they all have latency - this is one of the factors that set them apart from one another. I started using digital mixers starting with the DMP-7's and gave up on them with the Pro Mix 01's when in ear monitoring made its debut. IEMs are the litmus test for latency in live performance as they are a zero distance from the performer's ear, where the delay from a floor monitor or PA stack will have a time delay due to the distance between those and the performers.

With modern gear, it is generally not an issue as 8-12ms of latency is not detectable by most people even while using in ear monitors.

As for cancellation due to latency you can figure out the resonance of the filter made by the delay by using the formula f=1/L (f-1/p) where f is the frequency of the filter and L is the latency in seconds. If you plug 10ms into that equation, you will see how low the resonance is and will be able to judge its effect on the environment to some degree. But this is only true where the distance of the source and listener is 0.

Last edited by Andy Hamm; 05-20-2014 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:41 AM   #10
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I think it is interesting.

It probably has some latency but small enough to mix live.
In this case I think the only latency would be the display of meters and the changes in volume you do etc, but the audio wouldn't have to have latency if it is processed by the hardware. Only the display of the html5 mixer may have latency.

Can you move several channels volume at the same time with multitouch device?

I think it is great to use it as the internal monitoring mixer system. And also for external PA mixing. Anything that uses less cables is good for me. Less noise, less clutter, more convenient.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian View Post
Check out this digital mixer:
http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/...digital-mixers

Software demo:
http://www.smproaudio.com/umixweb/

The web software runs on HTML5. Holy. Crap.
Meh...

I prefer Reaper!

Stand alone hardware digital and analog mixers have been obsolete to me for a long time now. Using a computer/DAW setup is modular and continually upgradable/expandable. (See signature)

Cute that they're all starting to write iPad apps now though. I suspect they see the writing on the wall too.

Looks like Andy has answered all the obvious questions. I put my Reaper mixer rig together 5 years ago. The ability to do this with a computer and create a customized control surface setup (that you can change at any time) is almost old hat at this point. This isn't new at all. Can it also let you make full multitrack recordings while you mix live like Reaper can?


Now, I WILL admit that some of the OSC iPad configurations I see from some of these players are pretty slick (Presonus and Midas come to mind). Of course the beauty of the computer/DAW approach is that I can copy any of the ideas that I like - if I could be bothered to sit down and poke around with OSC more anyway. Remote desktop just works...
I wonder how well their wireless performs in heavy interference environments too. That was the challenge for me. The bottom line is you still need real knobs and faders for certain things (hence the midi controllers in my setup). The iPad is nice to see your screen and get at everything else in a pinch.

Last edited by serr; 05-20-2014 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:37 PM   #12
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Ok, that's pretty damn cool.
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:48 AM   #13
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Avoid anything that will need updates (Software mixer) by SMPro, the way they handled the V-Machine and it's updates should be enough to give you plenty of warning about them.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Avoid anything that will need updates (Software mixer) by SMPro, the way they handled the V-Machine and it's updates should be enough to give you plenty of warning about them.
Exactly.
When computer speeds turned the corner about 6 years ago to make live mixing with a DAW possible it really was the beginning of the end for standalone hardware makers.

Look what happened to Protools when native CPU processing became a reality. (UAD is next if they don't go native soon.)
Now you see the digital board makers desperately adding iPad control to their boards to try to keep up. It's end of life for stand alone hardware products now. That's how it looks to me anyway.
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
...
Now you see the digital board makers desperately adding iPad control to their boards to try to keep up. It's end of life for stand alone hardware products now. That's how it looks to me anyway.
Digital Consoles will never be replaced with DAWs, unless a company comes along and makes a standard, and it cannot be monkeyed with too much from the end users standpoint.

A DAW system like the one you and I have, and many other's out there have spun up, work fine when the owner is the one using it, but it isn't something that I would thrust upon any of my peers.

The live industry is based on standards, and while the Live DAW may be capable, it is anything but standard. You can imagine what would happen if Soundcos started turning out Live DAWs based on whatever hardware was cheap and plentiful and using the expertise found in forums and tutorials - it would be a disaster.

It takes a tech that is familiar with the DAW, the hardware, the OS and the protocols to make the whole thing work reliably enough to use. Most people won't want to trust a PC as they generally use them to try to do everything and they stuff them with every piece of free software they can get their hands on and then blame the machine when it becomes unstable. This would definitely be the case with live DAWs and people trying to use whatever free do-hicky vst they downloaded for free on the internet if there wasn't someone around to baby sit and keep things stable.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:13 PM   #16
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The software is not an ipad app. It's HTML 5. you can access it from any device. Did no one watch the video?
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