Old 02-21-2011, 04:27 PM   #1
AdamWathan
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Default What is up with "paste" in the MIDI editor?

How come when I select some notes in the piano roll, copy them and then position the edit cursor and paste them the edit cursor jumps backwards in time and arbitrary amount and the view jumps to somewhere that makes no sense...?

http://www.adamwathan.com/reaper/r4midipastehell.swf
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:34 PM   #2
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It has done that to me for over a year. I stopped trying and then forgot about it.
Would kinda make sense to paste to the edit cursor. Damn, now this is going to
bug the shit out of me.
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Old 02-21-2011, 04:59 PM   #3
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One of the reasons i gave up using Reaper for any serious MIDI work
These little issues that happen seemingly randomly are real passion killers when you are trying to work on a composition.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:06 PM   #4
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Seriously so many people asking for MIDI love but nobody has brought up that you can't paste properly in the MIDI editor? You people suck at bug hunting :/
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:19 PM   #5
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I can't remember that ever happening to me.


PC over here, though.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:32 PM   #6
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Not entirely sure from watching your video if I'm right, but I think this has to do with that you're trying to paste notes outside the actual item boundary.

If so, same thing happens here with view jumping.
Agreed shouldn't probably behave like that, normal copy/paste (within item boundary) working fine here though and that's what I normally do, that's why I never noticed this behaviour before.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:36 PM   #7
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I was definitely pasting within the item boundary, just one note and there was about 5 measures of notes located after the point I was trying to paste :/
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
I was definitely pasting within the item boundary, just one note and there was about 5 measures of notes located after the point I was trying to paste :/
Ah ok, couldn't quite spot that in your video.
So maybe indeed a Mac/PC thing ?

As ED said, I never noticed this, I'm on PC also.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:50 PM   #9
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Sorry Adam, PC here and that has never happened to me!
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
Seriously so many people asking for MIDI love but nobody has brought up that you can't paste properly in the MIDI editor? You people suck at bug hunting :/
Hi Adam,

I've been copy/pasteing in Reaper without problems. However it's not so simple as simply copy&pasteing. First of all it will depend on how you do it. I generally draw a marque around the section to be copied useing Right/Mouse drag. However, before I do this I make sure where the first note starts (of the area to be copied), it has to be quantized.

Basically I make sure that it has been Quantized to a bar, beat, 8thnote etc. so that when I copy it, the copy starts at an exact place. Then when I paste I make sure that the cursor is at the same location (in retrospect) that I want to copy to.

It don't matter where the cursor is when you copy, but it definitly has to be positioned according to how the 1st note of the copy zone is when you paste it.

If you also want to copy all the cc data with it that's another matter. What I do is draw in a phantom note well below the notes to be copied and make it long enough to catch everything I want to copy. This is a quantized note usually at least 1/16th beat ahead of the area I want to copy. Also make sure that "Move cc with notes" is ON. Then I position the cursor 1/16th ahead of where I want it to land and paste it. Then I delete the phantom notes. But heh heh, before you delete anything make sure and turn off "Move cc with notes".

I agree, Reaper needs a better way of doing this, but it can be done.

EDIT: Ooops, while I was typeing a few other stepped in and I thin I'm basically wrong, sorry.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:51 PM   #11
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Ok so I think I narrowed it down to something to do with "loop item source" and having the current selected section to edit being a looped portion. I don't know how it ended up that way though, all I did was record myself playing through the virtual MIDI keyboard and the section I recorded somehow wasn't the original recording? Like if I disabled "loop item source" the item went blank because the original source was way off to the left, even though that's not where I recorded it...

Oh Reaper :/ You silly thing... Fragile creature it is.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:55 PM   #12
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hey Adam... me too on a pc and don't see that copy paste issue in midi editor at all... it works perfectly and as expected for me.

The cursor ends up at the right of the last pasted in note, ready to do more...

but I'm not on a mac... [thank heaven, ...for all my blessings]
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:34 PM   #13
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Not seeing this behavior here.

Win7 x64
R x64 -- Alpha 43

Maybe a Mac-only thing?
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:40 PM   #14
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Here's an example project:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3616293/midipastebug.RPP

Just open the MIDI item, select a note, copy it, then move the edit cursor and paste it.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:43 PM   #15
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Confirmed with that project over here on PC. Not sure what's happening. Works normally on a clean project of mine.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:56 PM   #16
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Adam... I also confirm it with your project running on my pc... but I do notice other odd things... even if I change the midi edtior timebase settings to my normal and the project settings to time, beats, etc.

still the midi ruler shows infinite minus measures...

That don't happen with a freash project for me...

but no matter what I tried with your project it does what you say.. pretty ugly

PS it does the same thing in V3 also... very very strange
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Last edited by hopi; 02-21-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:25 PM   #17
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In the item's properties the start in source is at 26secs yet the item is 17secs long!! If you change this to 0secs then paste works properly. No idea at all how this was managed.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow View Post
have a look at the midi file in the event viewer - it is mostly in a 'negative time zone'
if you glue it, it returns to the correct times
Yes, this is caused by that start in source value I mentioned, so the take is starting some 9 seconds after it has finished! hense its own time being kind of backwards.
I do feel there is a bug here as an item shouldn't be able to start at a point past its own length.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:18 PM   #19
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Nice one Steve... good shooting!

hey not to hi-jack the thread but I do notice a curious thing about copy and paste...

say I select a note, copy, move the cursor to where the paste will happen and paste it. Now the originally selected note[s] and the pasted note[s] all reamain selected.

I did make a custom 'dupe' action that gets rid of this behaviour so have not used normal copy/paste since then. My action leaves only the pasted notes selected and makes the originals unselected.

I'd think the copy and paste should really work better in that same way.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
Seriously so many people asking for MIDI love but nobody has brought up that you can't paste properly in the MIDI editor? You people suck at bug hunting :/
Bugs like this can be hard to report because they fall into a special category called: 'Something weird happened and all my work jumped randomly all over the place and I'm certainly not going to try that again, and I'm in the middle of something here, so I'll just find some other way to do it'
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:32 PM   #21
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That is a bug (obviously), specifically what happens is that after pasting the edit cursor advances to the proper position within the MIDI source data, but the bug is that it advances to the proper position in the *first* loop iteration.

In this particular project, somehow or other the source start offset got set to almost the maximum amount -- most likely by accidentally dragging the left edge of the item a pixel further left. So what you are actually seeing is the second loop iteration, and the first loop iteration is off leftwards in negative space.

We'll fix the bug so the edit cursor advance gets placed in the proper loop iteration. If you are able to reproduce how you got the start offset to be wonky, that would be useful information, in case there is an unrelated bug there, or some undesirable behavior that we could make it harder to achieve.

Last edited by schwa; 02-25-2011 at 05:52 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
That is a bug (obviously), specifically what happens is that after pasting the edit cursor advances to the proper position within the MIDI source data, but the bug is that it advances to the proper position in the *first* loop iteration.

In this particular project, somehow or other the source start offset got set to almost the maximum amount -- most likely by accidentally dragging the left edge of the item a pixel further left. So what you are actually seeing is the second loop iteration, and the first loop iteration is off leftwards in negative space.

We'll fix the bug so the edit cursor advance gets places in the proper loop iteration. If you are able to reproduce how you got the start offset to be wonky, that would be useful information, in case there is an unrelated bug there, or some undesirable behavior that we could make it harder to achieve.
What I did was record myself playing via the virtual MIDI keyboard, didn't change the region boundaries at all. I did however toggle back and forth between "Ignore project tempo" a couple times in the source properties and changing the project tempo. Perhaps that did something?

Regardless thanks for checking it out, pretty wild that the first time I try to do this I somehow find myself in a bizarre corner case situation, heh...
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Old 02-26-2011, 03:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
If you are able to reproduce how you got the start offset to be wonky, that would be useful information, in case there is an unrelated bug there, or some undesirable behavior that we could make it harder to achieve.
I was able to reproduce this with series of item resize + tempo change + undo operations.
This is how I got it:
1. Open new project, set tempo to 100 BPM, activate snap, add empty MIDI item to start: 2.1.00 - end: 3.1.00, enable loop source in that new item, put cursor to 3.1.00 location
2. Resize left edge of item to 1.4.00
3. Change tempo to 130 BPM
4. Resize left edge to 2.1.00 (start offset still OK)
5. Undo 2 times (this will undo resize and tempo change)
6. Resize left edge of item to 1.3.00
7. Change tempo to 130 BPM
8. Resize left edge to 2.1.00 (start offset still OK)
9. Undo 2 times
10. Resize left edge of item to 1.4.00
11. Change tempo to 130 BPM
12. Resize left edge to 2.1.00 (start offset still OK)
13. Undo 2 times
14. Resize left edge of item to 1.3.00
15. Change tempo to 130 BPM
16. Resize left edge to 2.1.00 (start offset is ACTING WONKY)

In the end of last left edge resize the start offset changes from 0.0.00 (correct) to 1.0.00 (incorrect) when mouse crosses over the 2.1.00 location. Snap is enabled all the time. You can release the mouse button just above the 2.1.00 line to get a correct start offset. But it is very easy to overlook the strange behaviour and release mouse a bit right or left of the 2.1.00 line and then the start offset will be incorrect.


jnif

EDIT: The same start offset bug can be reproduced also in Reaper 3.75.
EDIT2: Added cursor location to step 1 of reproduce instructions. It is quite weird that cursor position is important when reproducing this bug. If I put cursor to 0.0.00 then I'm not able to reproduce this. If I start with cursor at 3.1.00 then Reaper moves cursor a bit left every time I undo tempo change from 130 to 100. Maybe this bug is somehow related to the unpredictable cursor movement when undoing tempo changes.

Last edited by jnif; 02-26-2011 at 04:41 AM.
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