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Old 11-12-2010, 10:48 PM   #1
slops
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Default GROUP MIX week 2: "Fiction Meets Truth" submissions and discussion...!

Week 2 Submissions

First off, thank you to everyone that joined in on Week 1's group mix.

Just the same as last week, the goal this week is to mix down the supplied stems using only reaper/free plugins, and to then share your reaper session file as well as a rendered mp3 mixdown. And for those of you who use hardware/pay plugins please feel free to share you're mixes as well. The more mixes to hear and learn from the better.

-------------------------------------------------
This week Schmidty has generously offered to supply stems for a country/folk song he's recorded:
---------------------------------
mp3 of the song
stems
--------------

As for your submissions, please include your .RPP session file and a mp3 of the rendered mixdown. If you use any free non reaper plugins please include links to them as well. And for those that use outboard gear/pay plugins you can submit your mp3 mixdown's here as well (i will mark those separate so everyone knows there is no reaper file included).

You can post your submissions in this thread, and I will continually edit this first post to include a list of each person's mix.

thank you again to everyone participating!

----------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
submissions with RPP session file
--------------------------
Louie - info mixdown session
l0calh05t- info mixdown session
Nafquo- info mixdown session
Megagoth1702- info mixdown session
pc999- info mixdown session
Reno.thestraws- info mixdown session
Midnight- info mixdown session
doppelgangster- info mixdown session
pipelineaudio- info mixdown session
Schmidty- info mixdown session
Wolffman- info mixdown session
slops- info mixdown session
Toft- info mixdown session
---------------------
submissions with no session file
-------------------
PlebianX- info mixdown
Alteregoxxx- info mixdown
MusicienGuitariste- info mixdown
catalin- info mixdown
Lawrence- info mixdown
Gizzmo0815- info mixdown
---------------------------

Last edited by slops; 12-18-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 11-13-2010, 02:41 AM   #2
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-15 dbfs rules! :-)

their preamps are still warm three month after the takes :-)

very (too much) hot on tape...
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:11 AM   #3
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what's the original BPM?
not so far from 90, but...
anything more precise?

the tone is B major.
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:36 AM   #4
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original tempo is 72.5 on 6/8

or 145 on 3/4

depending on how you count it

(for me it's 6/8 because the drummer play with "ternary" feeling)

sorry My english is pretty bad... I don't kow if we can say that like this

I want to say "un feeling ternaire"
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:24 AM   #5
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Friction Meets the Truth - PlebianX MP3 mixdown

Registered just to take part in this, found the thread via the Yep's super-epic WDYRSLA-thread

Just a mixdown, there's commercial magic in my project.

I felt this song was pretty good, but hurt by a monotone arrangement. To break it up I waited till the first instrumental break to bring in the organ, and It's levels dip away in all the verses, towards the end there's some panning around for motion. To break up the constant strumming (which is even more appearant when you have the organ-pad) I laid down some chord strums. The sound on my takamine cheap-o isn't the best, but I feel it helps something happen in the breaks.
I also did something which I would normally hope to not have to do in mix, but I built a backup-vocal by pitching the lead up an octave and cutting out some phrases. Normally I'd grab the first best person who can carry a tune and track it.
Drums are my achilles heal, so I'll readily admit I haven't touched them at all except some quick EQ and gating. You don't have to tell me they're bad, but some tips to make them better are always appreciated

--------------
[edit]
Friction Meets the Truth - PlebianX MP3 mixdown - Dark-organ-mix
I was home sick on a rainy day today, so I decided to try and throw together a mix that goes in another direction. Focus is on the organ in this one, animated low-pass filter to vary the mellowness, I also replaced the kick and snare with rounder thumpier versions.

Last edited by PlebianX; 11-13-2010 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 11-13-2010, 04:26 PM   #6
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Here's my version. I didn't have a whole lot of time or I would have done more editing. There are a lot of clicks in the bass track. I didn't take all of them out. I did change up the bass line because it just didn't fit in certain places. If I was mixing this for real, I would have done a lot more, but this song needs a lot of work.

I used bootsy, ferox and js and reaper plugs:

bootsy: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/downloads/
ferox: http://www.freemusicsoftware.org/804

Anyway, here it is:

Song: http://www.box.net/shared/u07bjtj0a2
RPP: http://www.box.net/shared/6ymaxrr0yx
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:43 PM   #7
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Great idea I will do one too.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:20 AM   #8
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Here's my mix. Uses Variety of Sound, Reaper and Digitalfishphones plugins.

MP3: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14516482/Fic...calh05t%29.mp3
RPP: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14516482/Fic...calh05t%29.RPP
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:13 AM   #9
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Here are my mp3 and project files, I've included the impulses for the project in the zip files.

I've edited quite a lot and changed the arrangement on a few places, because like was said earlier, the arrangement was getting in the way of the song reaching its full potential. More could be done if you were able to (re)record some parts, but I'm still quite happy with the way it turned out.

mp3: http://www.box.net/shared/mkrd4yaggt
rpp+ impulses: http://www.box.net/shared/ftgr6jiarf
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:25 PM   #10
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Here's my version:

http://www.box.net/shared/pd91sol2tk

I've used only free plugins and free impulses for reverbs.


if i had to do a SERIOUS mix of this song there would be a lot of editing to do...bass,drums and guitars are a bit out of time here and there and the voice is often slightly out of tune but i did not do any editing at all here because i've very little time ( see serious work :-D )

Thanks Schmidty and nice song btw!... however a more "careful" arrangement and musical execution could enhance the song a lot :-D
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:45 PM   #11
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Dude, Schmiddy you made this?
Dude I love that song!

Seriously, Ima mix the shit out of this piece! Or at least I'll try!

Absolutelely lovely piece. So simple and so lovely and warm!
Thank yoou!


*mixing*

DONE:

Only Reaper Plugins used.
Very rough stuff we got here. Doing this was a hell lot of fun. The 2nd real mix I ever did, love it!

Session File
MP3 Mixdown

I beg for any kind of criticism.

Have a nice day!
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:43 PM   #12
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I thought it was a pretty good mix.

There's something funny on the compressor setting you have on the vocal. It may just be that your taking a little too much off, or a problem with the threshold setting or something. When He starts singing a phrase I hear his voice come in loud, and then duck down and he never seems to make it up to that same volume again. It's not on every part, but it happens. Would you disclose the settings on that for us, since we're all learning here?

Thanks.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:21 PM   #13
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Here is my take.


http://soundcloud.com/pc999/fiction-...h-mix-by-pc999


Personally I tried to make this mix just a textbook like mix, make sure every single instrument had his space and time, no masking, a bigger stereo balance and add some movement to the music using fades and envelopes

I used only default ReaPlugs and JS ones, so everybody can see if they want to.

And from what I have heard of the others so far (havent seen their project files, yet), it seems that everybody also tried to keep the music as pure as possible (maybe a compliment to the musicians), mostly the only differences are (small) fades/envelopes, maybe with the exception of PlebianX and his "chorus".

Thanks it is really fun to work with such a diverse material from what we would ever do, I hope I see you all again soon.
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File Type: rpp Fiction mets the truth.RPP (26.6 KB, 173 views)

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Old 11-14-2010, 11:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bls View Post
I thought it was a pretty good mix.

There's something funny on the compressor setting you have on the vocal. It may just be that your taking a little too much off, or a problem with the threshold setting or something. When He starts singing a phrase I hear his voice come in loud, and then duck down and he never seems to make it up to that same volume again. It's not on every part, but it happens. Would you disclose the settings on that for us, since we're all learning here?

Thanks.
I think you are commenting on my mix?

First of all: if you want to see what I did, just download the RPP Session File and the raw stems, open the RPP file and guide REAPER to the stems. It will take care of arranging them etc. so you can solo tracks and see what I did. Better than explaining IMO.

The vocals are always a big deal for me, I never can get them right. :-/
The vocal-track itself has huge volume drops and even without the compressor there were many volume differences.
I know the parts you are talking about, but the volume at the beginning of those is acually like 2 times louder than the rest, I did not find a way to make it nice and even without it sounding weird. :-/ Thats definatively something I need to look into.

@textbook mix: I think this is the "easiest" way to make a mix. We are no pro-musicians and all we do at this point is polishing recordings. We have some very basic rules we learned someday somewhere and apply them here.

I will try to comment on the other mixes when I get home today.
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:01 AM   #15
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Slops, no love for my mix? :-DD joke of course! Probably it's only you haven't seen my previous post (or not? :-P ) :-DD
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megagoth1702 View Post
The vocals are always a big deal for me, I never can get them right. :-/
The vocal-track itself has huge volume drops and even without the compressor there were many volume differences.
I know the parts you are talking about, but the volume at the beginning of those is acually like 2 times louder than the rest, I did not find a way to make it nice and even without it sounding weird. :-/ Thats definatively something I need to look into.
Compressor is (IMO) used way to extensively, especially among mixers just starting out, when it comes to vocals. If you have very uneven vocals, step number 1 should be volume automation or hand-editing. Check out this example for the kind of detailed volume riding you'll see in pro mixes. This lets your compressor do what it's designed for, with 1 setting working across the whole mix (or segment when there're really big diffs between verse/chorus for example and you have to split it to 2 channels)
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:37 AM   #17
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seems like all the tracks are mono. Could save a ton of space and download time by leaving them that way instead of stereo (I could be wrong, maybe some are stereo but some are definitely mono)
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megagoth1702 View Post
@textbook mix: I think this is the "easiest" way to make a mix. We are no pro-musicians and all we do at this point is polishing recordings. We have some very basic rules we learned someday somewhere and apply them here.

If you prefer you can replace the textbook by classic .

Anyway I do think this is exactly what the song needed, probably the only thing I would do different would be add a high qualitity amp sim a of a 60/70 classic amp with a minimum of distortion, or do some with a wave shaper (in one of the guitars + a different pan(?)), but I wanted to use Rea/JS alone.

Personally I wouldnt like long reverbs, vocoder, phaser or trance gates in it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alteregoxxx View Post
Slops, no love for my mix? :-DD joke of course! Probably it's only you haven't seen my previous post (or not? :-P ) :-DD
Truth be said almost all the mixs sound the same, so I think individual coments will be scarce .


Quote:
Originally Posted by PlebianX View Post
Compressor is (IMO) used way to extensively, especially among mixers just starting out, when it comes to vocals. If you have very uneven vocals, step number 1 should be volume automation or hand-editing. Check out this example for the kind of detailed volume riding you'll see in pro mixes. This lets your compressor do what it's designed for, with 1 setting working across the whole mix (or segment when there're really big diffs between verse/chorus for example and you have to split it to 2 channels)
Compressors exist to avoid that kind of automation !

Anyway, looking at the wave, that kind of performance is probably a) intentional or b) from a really bad singer , it doesn't even look much like a vocal wave. IF the first you will be doing a lot of damage, if the second ... I would want to be the one mixing that thing.

IIRC the only place here I used compression is in the vocal, for my mix. Maybe the guitar could have used some expansion...
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:37 AM   #19
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if you guys use shup, the forum's mp3 player will play the songs in the post
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:38 AM   #20
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Please don't use shup since it means I won't have access to any file at all.
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
if you guys use shup, the forum's mp3 player will play the songs in the post
that thing never worked for me
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:02 AM   #22
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Where is this thing from BTW? Needs some serious work, if its someone reaper related it should be fun, but if its just some who knows what, never mind
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc999 View Post
Compressors exist to avoid that kind of automation !
True, the picture link is for the truly obsessive But I mean more along the lines of when you have an amateur the leans in for some words, or belts out the first word without backing off the mic, then your compressor (which should the heavy lifting) will treat you much kinder if you take to 5-8 words that are 30% louder and bring them down to average, or some artistic and FUNCTIONAL bit over average. It was a real aha-moment for me when I for the first time stopped thinking one tool had to do all the work.
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pc999 View Post

Truth be said almost all the mixs sound the same, so I think individual coments will be scarce .
...oh...you say?...i don't think so...mix is an art and art is very subjective...for example i've listened to your mix and to my ears it's very different from mine :-)

however with my previous post i just wanted to point out that Slops didn't include my mix on the list.

when I get some free time I'll try to comment on every single mix, because i think we all mix differently, if not this "game" would not make sense...no?
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alteregoxxx View Post
Slops, no love for my mix? :-DD joke of course! Probably it's only you haven't seen my previous post (or not? :-P ) :-DD
whoops!

yeah sorry about that.
i completely missed your post by accident.

i got it up there now.
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Where is this thing from BTW? Needs some serious work, if its someone reaper related it should be fun, but if its just some who knows what, never mind
one of the users here, Schmidty, supplied the stems. its a project he said he was doing with a friend.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:28 AM   #27
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[QUOTE=Megagoth1702;617519]Dude, Schmiddy you made this?
[QUOTE]

I didn't write it. It's by a guy namedPaul Major. He wrote it, and performed Guitar and Vox. I did the drums, bass and organ.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:33 AM   #28
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Default Good stuff...

I don't have my hack on it available as I'm at work, but I can speak to the song from memory a bit. I'll post my mix when I get home. Schmidty, you ROCK for letting us use your stems for the group mix greatly appreciate the opportunity!! Rock on dude.

As a few of the other folks here mentioned the vocal track in this piece was one of the trickier bits to work with. The track is extremely dynamic which can cause a lot of balance issues when it comes to controlling the peaks (not just the vocal track either). Step one for me was to just drop the fader a bit so that the highest peak was at around -4 on the meter. This, of course, caused some of the softer parts to drop out of the mix so I did have to use a bit of compression to level it out. However, as was mentioned, the vocal track could be automated a bit to balance it as well. This is merely a personal choice in my opinion. I did find, however, that with some of the stronger peaks (the second line of the first verse starts with a pretty drastic volume spike) that the compression I used was audible (not transparent). So automation here might make that a bit less obvious. Another option I'd like to try would be to use multiple instances of compression rather than just going at it with one compressor doing all the work. But I don't know how that might work out.

Another area I found a bit tricky was with the drums. The overheads weren't bad, I found that a bit of compression and a high pass at around 500hz made them shine a bit more. But the two tom tracks I found almost acted like a second pair of overheads! I had to use a combination of a low pass (to get rid of a lot of the cymbal/hat in the tracks) and some gating to make the tom hits stand out more. I couldn't, however, quite get rid of the bass and snare that were in the tracks. The problem with tracks that have this much spillage is that it can sometimes make balancing the drums a little difficult. With a snare track AND the overheads AND the spillage on the tom tracks, the snare can actually get pretty loud when you start piling all of those tracks together. So I passed the two tom tracks to a bus, and the two overheads to another bus, did the EQ, gating and compression on the buses and then passed the kick, snare, OH bus and tom bus to an overall drum bus where I added reverb, and then passed them to an FX track where I did a small amount of parallel compression to give the drums a little more Ooomph.

I also did a bit of editing. I cut out the bass for the first few measures and left just the acoustic as an intro (the acoustic was a bit bright, by the way, so I had to EQ a little to make it warm up a tad, also the strumming wasn't always in time with the song, I might do a few more takes and comp together a real good steady rhythm). Then I brought the bass in for a few measures (for the bass I used a compressor set with a fairly high ratio because some of the notes were a lot louder than others, and a bit of chorus to give it a little beef), and the organ (which was LOUD!! I dropped the volume) came in with the lyrics at the same time as the overhead track with the hat taps. I left the kick, snare, and toms out of the mix until just after the first verse ended. I did this because, like some of the other folks mentioned the song is a bit monotonous after a while, so by adding in pieces a little at a time it gives a little more movement and life to the mix. Then I played with some EQ and panning on the guitars later in the mix to make for some movement. The strumming gets almost grating after a while...

Then...I automated the entire track a very small amount. The track gets noticeably louder as the song plays through. So I just did a touch of volume automation to level the whole thing out a tad and a VERY tiny bit of reverb over the whole mix to glue things together...

I didn't talk much about EQ because for the most part I didn't do anything that wouldn't be expected...I high passed the guitars, vocals and overheads. Low passed the bass and kick. Did some highlights on the snare and toms, and isolated the organ with a high pass and a few accents on some of the harmonics to make it cut through a bit at the lower volume.

That's it!!

It would be great if some other folks could narrate their thoughts on what their thought processes were for the mix and what they did to work with the various nuances of the song.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:41 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
seems like all the tracks are mono. Could save a ton of space and download time by leaving them that way instead of stereo (I could be wrong, maybe some are stereo but some are definitely mono)
Most of them are mono, and should have rendered mono. I set it to render Tracks as stems, and multichannel tracks as multichanel files, but had the default set to mono. Not entirely sure why they all rendered stereo.
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlebianX View Post
It was a real aha-moment for me when I for the first time stopped thinking one tool had to do all the work.
That is a good advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alteregoxxx View Post
...oh...you say?...i don't think so...mix is an art and art is very subjective...for example i've listened to your mix and to my ears it's very different from mine :-)


Sure, I didnt mean to underrate anyone work, I just mean no one went in a really different direction, like industrial, electro or jungle. It would take a real work creating conditions for that... (Starting to think how we could do such a thing...! )
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Old 11-15-2010, 09:17 AM   #31
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You know what pisses me off? Being so subjective... :-/ I really just feel like "I like" or "I dont like" or "I dont like so much"... Not very constructive.
So please do not take my word as serious as for example slop's or whoelse knows stuff around here.

Louie - sounds good. Too much bass for my taste. Love your intro, thought about doing the same in my v2 btw.

localhost - I like, sorry, nothing else to say.

Nafquo - the drums are too loud compared to the guitars, although you have a really nice overall-volume. The vox are a tad bit too loud for my taste. Same with the organ. Too dominant IMO.
The snare stuff you did sometimes, sounds neat. Nice sounding vocals! The effects at "the truth" are nice, "its a long first kiss" sounds weird, dont like it.

pc999 - the drums dont come through most of the time, the organ and guitars are too loud in my opinion. The vox are nice but too much reverb for my taste. It's too obvious.
I like how you played with the organ & guitars volume to make the whole thing more exicing! Louder, quieter, cool! Just the whole thing feels unfinished. Go give it some more love. Edit the drums a bit, look at my mix, I have a nice kickdrum solution there.

Alteregoxxx - Some artifacts at the beginning, check that.
Really warm mix, I like it. But maybe too warm and not crisp? Like the pannened guitars. Like what you did to the snare, it was a pain in the ass to get to sound good.

As said before, commenting on this project is really hard since we all have the same stuff. All I can do is say I like or I dont like.

FOR FUTURE SUBMISSIONS:
Use box.net, it's the easiest thing to use for us at the moment. The service is simple and easy to use, drag n drop. Also we can preview tracks without having to download them, that saves time.

To make commenting and sorting more simple, please name your files something like this:
"thisIsMySongMixdown_thisIsMyNickname.mp3" so we all know your nickname by just looking at the file. You can even have a version number at the beginning, so the sorting is perfect.
Like:
v1_fictionMeetsTheTruth_Megagoth1702.mp3

If its too geeky, leave it the way you do right now. If you dont mind, do it this way. Makes stuff easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlebianX View Post
It was a real aha-moment for me when I for the first time stopped thinking one tool had to do all the work.
Hold on, so what do you mean exactly? Could you go more into detail?
Thanks!

v2 of my mix, please update the list. I think this is final for now.
MP3 Mixdown
RPP Session File

Last edited by Megagoth1702; 11-15-2010 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:15 AM   #32
Reno.thestraws
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Hi

Here's my submission -> http://www.4shared.com/audio/d1R_jhi...th_-_mix_.html

(sorry I can't upload on box.net, it doesn't work today?)

I used drumtracker on all drums and cymbals 'cause I can't deal with original drums (too harsh and saturated)

I tried to break the monotone arragement with mute on tracks parts.
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:31 AM   #33
Megagoth1702
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Reno, love your mix. What did you do with the vocals?

Thanks!
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:37 AM   #34
Reno.thestraws
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A LOT OF TUNING! :-)

duplicate it and reinforce some words with drone on B and E (with reatune)

a little eq
a little of compression
a room reverb (the same on all tacks)
a very light double ping pong delay on 1/8 notes

and that's all :-)
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Old 11-15-2010, 11:53 AM   #35
Megagoth1702
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RPP file you gangster.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:10 PM   #36
Reno.thestraws
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ok here's the rpp file -> http://www.4shared.com/file/8_gImSW8...the_truth.html

you need this free plug-in -> http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/

and in the reaverb you need to put this impulse file -> http://www.4shared.com/audio/JsUDaM_...soft_room.html

the rest are reaper plug-in

(I rendered the vocal after tuning them... so you don't get the tuning process in the rpp, sorry)
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:54 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megagoth1702 View Post
Alteregoxxx - Some artifacts at the beginning, check that.
Really warm mix, I like it. But maybe too warm and not crisp? Like the pannened guitars. Like what you did to the snare, it was a pain in the ass to get to sound good.
for the artifacts...as i've said i did a really rough mix(read zero editing)
for the "warmth"...i think a "retrò-warm" sound fit the song better than a "modern-crisp" sound so i pointed more to "visually-sonically" recreate a sweet warm mood rather than a cold crisp modern sound...this is a love song...love is warm and sweet, like an old movie scene (for me...)...i think the drum groove reminded me "Five years" from David Bowie so i tried to inject some "70's" also

@RENO.THESTRAWS
For the reasons explained above despite your mix sounds pretty good from a technical point of view, for my taste it sounds too aggressive.In particular organ is too high and holds the mood of the songs too tight.Snare also has a modern-tight sound that i don't like for this song but this, on the other hand, is consistent with the modern mood you have chosen to give the song.
However good mix.Bravo!

Let me clarify once again that is absolutely not my intention to offend anyone with my opinions :-D i only try to express what I think without filters :-D
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:59 PM   #38
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thanks! and no offense at all... it's cool to get opinions from other mixers!
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Old 11-15-2010, 03:08 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alteregoxxx View Post
for the "warmth"...i think a "retrò-warm" sound fit the song better than a "modern-crisp" sound so i pointed more to "visually-sonically" recreate a sweet warm mood rather than a cold crisp modern sound...this is a love song...love is warm and sweet, like an old movie scene (for me...)...i think the drum groove reminded me "Five years" from David Bowie so i tried to inject some "70's" also
David Bowie was drunk I guess, there is no way he could have missed so many notes otherwise, haha. :-D

Please listen to my v3_mp3, which is this one:
mp3 mixdown

I know what you mean with "warm" and not having that "modern crisp" stuff, how do you think does my mix sound looking at it's softness?
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:33 PM   #40
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I didnt partake in this mix liked the song but just didnt get around to tryin her out, anyway id like to request for the next one or sooner then later some sort of heavy metal or rock mix, thanks alot i love these things
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