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Old 06-21-2017, 11:48 AM   #1
Michael Z Freeman
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Default A Reaper way or a VST that can replicate my Blender Turntable physics prototype ?

Hi,

Thread: DJ turntable platter physics simulation: Link sound pitch to platter rotation speed ?

Of course I could use vinyl timecode but I only have one turntable at the moment and anyway I think the concept is cool.

But WHY you may ask ?

So, in answer, know this. DJ Turntable's connect the physics of a rotating disc to the sound. They are really very close to a potter's wheel - the oldest type of lathe - but here it's the sound that is the clay. SO fundamental and yet I've never seen a SINGLE software DJ mixer that follows through on the concept !

I've tried plenty of plugins and FX (yes & Tapestop) that fake the effect of Turntabalism. I guess the best example of this is playing a record on a turntable and then turning it off while the sound still plays out. I've found nothing that can reproduce that in software and I began to wonder why. Until I found the missing ingredient. PHYSICS. Hence the use of Blender Game Engine for my experiment/prototype. That was a success. To my ears any way, it's the closest I've heard to a turntable effect.

But I'm no Python coder, although I can just about do basic stuff. Blender is also not a DAW so the integration into other sound technology is limited. I tried a few search terms in ReaPack but there seems to be nothing out there. So unless I can come up with something myself, or there's something out there I missed, OR someone is inspired to write something themselves, then I might have to continue with Blender.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:55 AM   #2
Jason Brian Merrill
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really neat way of doing this!

I have no need for it at the moment, nor do I have any clue about how you're doing this, but kudos and all the best
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Old 06-21-2017, 01:49 PM   #3
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I suppose you need to do a plugin that accesses the samples from a wav file. Creating the appropriate sound from those seems rather easy: just resampling appopriastely.

From discussions about the "ARA" media-access interface Melodyne uses (but that Reaper does not provide yet) I learned that Reaper is supposed to provide a propriety media access API. But I don't know how same can be used.

IMHO, at best the plugin you have in mind would be done as a JSFX, but I don't know if you can use the media access interface from JSFX code.

I suppose at best you ask in the developers forum.

-Michael
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Old 06-21-2017, 02:13 PM   #4
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how about this? tapestops handle the basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ6wXmcyzws

with a turntable, as opposed to "tape stop" effects, i imagine you would want some velocity sensitivity in setting the acceleration and deceleration rate. and maybe humanizing by adding random delay length modulation (chorus) that's if you want to just generate it rather than record automation.

if you want to add some more "analog" turntable articulations, then use a tapestop type plugin and then after that, insert a fully wet chorus and automate the rate and depth to taste. if you do, try different chorus effects because some of them seem to use interpolated delays and others perhaps not.

if you can bring your physics to the ReaJS forum, i bet someone would be into it.
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Old 06-21-2017, 02:14 PM   #5
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Hi

Fruity Scratcher is the best turntable simulation that I've seen.


I am new to Blender , it's much alike 3D Reaper, love it.
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Old 06-21-2017, 08:11 PM   #6
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Djdecks and virtual dj both do this ?
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:11 AM   #7
Michael Z Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
really neat way of doing this!

I have no need for it at the moment, nor do I have any clue about how you're doing this, but kudos and all the best
The Z axis rotation of the platter in the game engine is linked to the play speed of the sound through Python ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
IMHO, at best the plugin you have in mind would be done as a JSFX, but I don't know if you can use the media access interface from JSFX code.

I suppose at best you ask in the developers forum.

-Michael
Cheers. A physics simulation could be attached to the Reaper play speed control.

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Originally Posted by reapercurious View Post
how about this? tapestops handle the basics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ6wXmcyzws

with a turntable, as opposed to "tape stop" effects, i imagine you would want some velocity sensitivity in setting the acceleration and deceleration rate. and maybe humanizing by adding random delay length modulation (chorus) that's if you want to just generate it rather than record automation.

if you want to add some more "analog" turntable articulations, then use a tapestop type plugin and then after that, insert a fully wet chorus and automate the rate and depth to taste. if you do, try different chorus effects because some of them seem to use interpolated delays and others perhaps not.
Yes. But its not the sound I'm looking for. Tapestop is nice but it (as far as I can see) is not using any modelling of the physics of moving/rotating objects which makes a big difference as I found out with my Blender experiment which sound like a Technics 1210 ! ...



Quote:
if you can bring your physics to the ReaJS forum, i bet someone would be into it.
I can feel some pithy questions coming on that will be asked in that forum !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outboarder View Post
Hi

Fruity Scratcher is the best turntable simulation that I've seen.


I am new to Blender , it's much alike 3D Reaper, love it.
But that's FL Studio only ? I don't have FL Studio to hand at the moment. Plus it looks like it is not modelling the sound using the physics of a rotating turntable platter (nice as it must be for many things).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
Djdecks and virtual dj both do this ?
No. No physics simulation. The only way of getting that is by using Vinyl time code for the real physics of a turntable platter.

Last edited by Michael Z Freeman; 06-23-2017 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:00 PM   #8
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But that's FL Studio only ? I don't have FL Studio to hand at the moment. Plus it looks like it is not modelling the sound using the physics of a rotating turntable platter (nice as it must be for many things).
Those four knobs on top left are for physics.
you can download and use FL demo , you don't need to save/load , just use it realtime.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Those four knobs on top left are for physics.
you can download and use FL demo , you don't need to save/load , just use it realtime.
^Xactly-this is by far the best to date-old--simple and effective=does the job well enough...but! it's wanted in reaper-this is not a vst sold separately-so not solved yet
Harmor can do it though++ < powerplug.
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Old 06-23-2017, 01:29 PM   #10
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i have "native instruments traktor" with timecode vinyl and before mixed on vinyl since 1999 ...

from turning off the platter a few 1000 times i can tell you you don´t need physics , just a simple curve with a dip at the end (when the magnets of the motor are stronger than the self-rotation of the platter and it suddenly stops)


similar in form to this


but your idea is quite neat .. i hope you can somehow interface blender game-engine into a vst plugin

theres a steinberg vst sdk , maybe it can help you
maybe also look into juce if you wanna dev audio plugins

Last edited by Ulf3000; 06-23-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:39 AM   #11
Michael Z Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulf3000 View Post
i have "native instruments traktor" with timecode vinyl and before mixed on vinyl since 1999 ...

from turning off the platter a few 1000 times i can tell you you don´t need physics , just a simple curve with a dip at the end (when the magnets of the motor are stronger than the self-rotation of the platter and it suddenly stops)


similar in form to this


but your idea is quite neat .. i hope you can somehow interface blender game-engine into a vst plugin

theres a steinberg vst sdk , maybe it can help you
maybe also look into juce if you wanna dev audio plugins
Cheers. It would not have to be in a VST. I can get Blender to send MIDI time code to Reaper so that my Blender "turntable" becomes a virtual controller that can move the play head and change speed directly. I'm currently looking at this project here to enable that.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:12 AM   #12
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ahh ok .. so you want to be able to completely scratch a virtual 3d turntable , would be rad in a vr compatible gameengine export XD

then maybe i can help you build the physics correctly then ...

the platter is driven by a motor ..

on the platter is a cloth mat and on that mat is the vinyl ...

that creates very small friction . so when you scracth the platter still moves and doesn´t stop , the harder you press the slower the turntable gets and then the speed up slows down after



but this could probably be solved by a simple speed up mathematically after untouching the vinyl though no need for physical friction (but you could try )

pressing stop is different than turning power off in middle of play , by slightly touching the side of the platter you can make it slow down faster

you can also scratch also with turntable turned off ,then when leaving the vinyl itll slow down very quickly( maybe one second of music stretched to 3 ) fast start long tail and the dip at the end

djs often put lots of colored stickers on their vinyls so tehy can see what thy are doing, when you create the texture keep that in mind

when you watch the side platter of the technics turntable you can read its speed and speed difference while touching through those dots (watch a video) .. im 100% that can easily be recreated on the 3d model

if you get it done you should compile it as an ios app and sell it for a few bucks , theres already a vinyl app on ios but its bad ...

i think most of the stuff can be solved with very simple mathematics inside blender in the animation ssytem instead of physics, im waiting eagerly with what youll come up though

use plugin like this http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2015...ng-vst-plugin/ to interface your midi into (there are many vsts which can scratch pitch whatever)..

once a few years back i programmed a camera controlled crossfader/punch-in midi (its working but really prototype ) .. using teh cross fadre through the ipad camera and the turntable on the diplay would be a nice combination XD

Last edited by Ulf3000; 06-24-2017 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:19 AM   #13
Michael Z Freeman
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Yes. I had not got to enabling scratching. I've been concentrating on the simple deck effects like mixing out a track by turning off the deck so it slows down to a stop, or doing that and then pulling back the turntable so it comes to a stop slowly, but backwards. 33/45 speed changes. Brake stop and so forth. Blender Game Engine physics has friction settings on the materials that could be used to emulate a slip mat. So that would be a case of adding another cylinder object on top of the turntable object to represent the vinyl record, then I think the physics kicks in based on the friction settings between the two objects being the "slipmat".
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Old 06-27-2017, 05:13 AM   #14
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so did you manage to send the midi to a pitching vst ?
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